[UBTKS]

Hello all,

I am looking for suggestions for my first side arm. I really want something pretty accurate and reliable. This will be used mainly for target shooting for fun, with the possibility of self defense but I don't want to compromise quality for compactness.

I would like to keep it under or around 600 dollars and have the option of adding a silencer to it for added accuracy, less recoil etc...

I think I would either a 9mm or a 40 cal, not low like a 380 or as high as 45 ACP.

Simply looking at price, Hi Point guns seems to look nice but I don't know much about them.

Other than that I have also been looking at the beretta 92FS and the new PX4 and was wondering about suggestions on those.

I really am open to suggestions, basically want a good starter gun, at a good price.

And I am a larger guy, so looking for a gun that won't disappear between my hands.

Thanks for any and all suggestions!!!

[psyopspec]

Welcome to THR!

Couple things to be aware of:

Silencers don't increase accuracy. In fact, with downloaded ammunition (to avoid a sonic crack) you decrease the accuracy and range of the pistol.

Hi Points get made fun of a lot but I've noticed the harshest critics don't own one, and those that do say that they're good for the money. However, I'm not aware of any makers of threaded barrels for one. The Beretta is excellent for a silencer since it doesn't have a tip-up barrel; the extra weight at the muzzle end won't affect reliability. There's also plenty of used 92fs models out there, and the grips are well-suited to big hands.

[sheepdog]

...I'd recommend a used Ruger Stainless P90 or P97...decocker preferred over safety model...they're .45 ACP and easy to shoot...reliable as the sunrise...you should find a clean one for around $300-350...every shooter I've shot with in the last ten years says they shoot easier than a 9mm or .40 cal...including two light-built girls who'd never shot before and hit the target regularly and enjoyed it...
...started all three of my sons on .45 at 8, 10, 12 years...all of them outshot me by the time they were 12...eyes like eagles...recoil is not the problem with most shooters...it's trigger squeeze...learn that properly and you can shoot any handgun better....

[UBTKS]

Good to know, I guess I just took less recoil to in turn result in higher accuracy if I was rapid firing, so really not accuracy but precision?

Right now I am still really debating if the $400 extra from Hi Point to Beretta is worth it. I don't want a gun that won't last.

I don't know enough about pistols yet to know if a silencer is really what I am looking for, but it would be nice to have less recoil and not to need earplugs all the time on the range when it's just me.

[sheepdog]

...is crap...wouldn't recommend one to anyone...from years of experience with selling them...and having them come back...the worst part is good gunsmiths don't want to even work on them...if they can get parts...better to buy in the used market and then if you have a better quality of gun, you'll not pay an arm and a leg and CAN get repair and parts if you need...I'd not give a beginner a dull axe with a loose head...I'd want him to learn with a good sharp one that would serve him well...same with guns...you're worth the difference in price...

...silencers are expensive...$200 and more...plus the Federal tax and application...earmuffs are $20...

[UBTKS]

Thanks for fast replys,

Is the cost is ammo for the 45 noticeable over time? As being more price conscious I was sticking to the 9mms, but for how much I will be shooting I am more worried about the gun price instead of ammo.

Thanks about the additional info too.

With the silencer I was just looking for a gun with that possible upgrade to play around with. I don't have the money for that now, just didn't want to limit myself so I didn't have to get a different gun when I did want to experiment. But that is a very solid point and I still will carry earmuffs for my other guns anyways.

[content]

Hello friends and neighbors // S&W .357/.38 ,4" or 6"

You have fun picking from all available options.:D
You can shoot the lightest .38 ammo or the heaviest .357 magnum ammo:)
You can hunt with it if needed/desired;)

I think my .357/.38 S&W 586 6" Distingushed Combat Magnum is one of the best revolvers in the world and a joy to shoot.

Enjoy the search, rent/borrow a few and find which one feels/balances best for you.(6'4",240lbs. I'm a big guy too).
Welcome, hope you enjoy this site as much as I do.

[trickyasafox]

welcome!

silencers require lots of paper work and hefty fees (400 bucks!) and are not legal every where. Depending on your state, it might not be an option at all.

600 dollars is a good amount of money- you'll have plenty of options in that price range.

in your calibers listed- glock will be a solid choice, as will any of the polymer framed guns (these would be glock, smith and wesson m&p, springfield XD, etc etc) also, you have lots of all steel gun options like some offerings from beretta, smith and wesson, and ruger, just to name a few.

I urge you to not overlook the possibility of revolvers either. Revolvers on the used market can be had for a good amount under your budget, and might allow you more selection with the same gun with regards to ammo.

for example- if you like 9mm to start out with, but decide you want something more powerful, in autos your looking at a new gun.

with revolvers, you can buy a gun rated for a more powerful cartridge like 357 magnum, but shoot 38 special cartridges until you feel ready to bump up the power factor (or you may never choose to)

exceptions do exist, but these are general guidelines.

if this is your first gun purchase in general, I'd recommend taking a few dollars of your budget and taking a firearms safety class, and maybe one specifically for handguns. They may seem a little simplistic at times, but no matter how knowledgeable a person is- instruction can always be of benefit.

again, welcome! ask as many questions as you like and don't forget to use the search function up top. Enjoy the High Road.

[memphisjim]

glock 19

[UBTKS]

Thanks for the revolver suggestions, I will look into that a bit more than I have, being able to shoot different calibers could come in handy. For my first handgun I think I would like a semi-auto, and the only real reason is personal opinion, but as I get more income I will definitely consider it.

About the glocks, I was leaning away from them. I have heard they are great guns, I just don't like the look of them, plain and simple. Definitely more for function than form I know, I simply would like to have my first gun to be something I didn't have to convince myself to buy.

I do agree a handgun course could be useful, I am always up for being more informed and safer. I have been through plenty of firearm course in general (eagle scout) but haven't been specifically to one on hand gun safety.

And as a newbie to hand guns, I tried searching the forums some but really didn't see a topic on it, is there a large difference between all steel and polymer framed guns?

I did search and found out a lot more info thought that has been helping me, and thanks for the suggestions again!

[Erik M]

I would suggest you look at a beretta/taurus model 92 or 99, also check out a Glock model 17 and 19.


If you are interested in a revolver you can absolutely never go wrong with a 4" S&W .38/.357

[jad0110]

For your first gun, especially since this is intended primarily as a plinker, I'd look at something chambered in .22 Long Rifle (22 LR). 22 LR is by far the most affordable ammo you can buy. The cheapest 9mm ammo I've seen is at Wal-Mart, and costs about $22 or $23 for 100 rounds. 550 rounds of 22LR will cost you $15.

Revolver or auto, doesn't matter. 22s are fun to shoot, and will allow you to focus on the fundamentals of stance, grip, breathing, sight picture and trigger manipulation without having to contend with recoil.

In semi autos, the most popular is the Ruger Mark series (Mk I, II and III). My sister bought a very cool blued 5.5" Mk II with adjustable sights recently for $199. Most used Rugers are in the upper $200 range these days, so they certainly fit your budget. Another affordable option is the S&W 22A, though I rarely see them where I live, but I think NIB examples sell for under $400. My personal favorite from a grip-to-hand fitment perspective is the Browning Buckmark. I've seen NIB examples for $300 every now and then, but I've never gotten around to buying one. All are highly accurate and will last you a lifetime with proper care.

On the other hand, with some autos you can buy a 22LR conversion kit which will allow you to shoot say, .45 ACP or 9mm and 22 LR out of the same gun. The CZ-75 in 9mm is probably one of the more common guns with 22 LR conversion kits available, but there are many others that I just can't think of at the moment.

On the revolver side, you've got Double Action (can be fired by cocking the hammer or simply pulling the trigger) and Single Action options (can ONLY be fired by cocking the hammer manually).

In the SA revolver arena, you have the mighty fine Ruger Single Six, starting at around $300. Most folks love 'em, as evidenced by the fact that on average (in my area), used Single Sixes sell for at least as much as NIB examples, when you can find them. Often, these guns come with an extra cylinder that will allow you to fire the flatter shooting 22 Magnum in addition to 22 LR. These guns have a repuation for exceptional accuracy, and if you take care of them, will probably last for generations.

I bought a Heritage Rough Rider Combo myself (22LR/22 Mag), which is basically similar in concept to the Single Six, but it not as nice/more affordable. I paid $150 NIB for mine. The two Heritage SA revolvers I have owned have proven to be mechanically flawless, if not as finely crafted as a Ruger. And to be fair, from my own observations Ruger makes a smaller percentage of lemons that Heritage. The accuracy of both my Heritages has been at least as good as the Rugers.

In Double Action revolvers, on the more affordable end of the spectrum, Harrington and Richardson (H&R) made a lot of cool, affordable DA and SA 22 Revolvers (the 9-shot model 922 being most common in my area), many of which can be found for under $200. They aren't as finely made or as graceful as a S&W or Colt, but they are reliable and plenty accurate. Taurus has the Model 94 (low $300s) and the 970 (high $300s). Suffice to say, there seems to be a rather high lemon rate among the 94s, which I've discovered from personal experience, so I recommend (1) checking them out VERY carefully before buying or (2) going with the larger, slighltly pricer 970, which appears to be of better quality. Ruger sold a small number of 22 LR chambered SP101s (no longer made). From what I have heard, they are nice shooting guns, if you find one. And particularly desireable if you ever want an SP101 chambered in something like .357 Magnum. The last one I saw on Gunbroker (about a year ago) sold for around $425, but I'd bet their selling in the high $400s now.

The gold standard in the 22LR DA revolver market are the S&W Models 617, 17 and 18 (the 17s and 18s also known as the K-22 Masterpiece) and the Colt Diamondbacks. All are super nice, and fairly pricey (particularly the Diamonbacks and pre-war K-22s, aka the Outdoorsman), but worth it IMO. S&W discontinued production of the 6-shot 17 and 18 years ago, though they have re-introduced the 17 as part of their "classic line" recently. NIB 617s (6 or 10 shot) run in the high 600s, and my gut tells me the "classic line" 17s will sell for 700-ish. Used versions of the 617 sell for $100-$200 less. The 17s and 18s usually start around $400 and work their way up. I own a S&W K-22 / Model 17 with a 6" barrel that was made in 1959, and it is one of my favorite guns. I shoot it on nearly every range trip, I've put many thousands of rounds through her and I enjoyed every one of them. It is far more accurate than I. Though they were once common, they are getting noticeably rarer these days. I personally prefer the older 17s and 18s to the newer 617s, as the 617s have an underlug running the full length of the barrel which makes them too muzzle heavy and clumsy feeling for a .22, IMHO.

Good luck, and welcome again to THR!

[jad0110]

In follow-up to my post above, if you are patient and buy used, you might be able to get two guns for the price of one new one :p .

As stated above, my sister picked up a 22LR Ruger Mk II used for $199 last year. That was an exceptional price, $250 is probably more like it.

Recently, I saw a bunch of 4" S&W Model 10 revolvers in .38 Special priced from $209 up to $259, depending on condition. Loaded with the right ammo, these classic guns make for accurate, dependable, effective home defense weapons. Though I don't own a Model 10, I love the platform so much that I own a bunch of it's variants, included the 22 LR K-22 / Model 17 I mentioned in my last post. They feel wonderful in my hands and point very naturally, so I shoot them better than nearly every other handgun I've tried, save for my father's .22 Hi Standard Citation.

So for $500, you could end up with two high quality used guns for the price of a new one. Something to consider.

Then again, for the price of a $200-ish S&W Model 10 in .38, you can buy a used pump shotgun for home protection. See where this is headed? :evil:

Guns are like potato chips: you can't have just one! :neener:

[warnerwh]

The .22 will help you be able to shoot. Handguns take a lot of practice to get consistent with which means lots of ammo. A .22 is the perfect plinker also. You'll have a good amount of money left over and this will give you time to get some more experience before you get a center fire.

[sheepdog]

....45 is about 6$ a box more than 9mm at Wallyworld...less expensive practice ammo can be ordered from the internet...the ones you'll use for defense can cost around $1 per round...in either caliber...not cheap as it used to be...but figure if you shoot twice a month...you'll spend about $40 on ammo...

[theotherwaldo]

I bought my two favorite shooters for a total of just over $400. That was a Ruger Mk. I (.22) and a Ruger Super Blackhawk (.44 mag). Not perfect specimens, but excellent guns. Of my fifty-odd guns, these two see the most use. The Super Blackhawk gets fed a lot of mild reloads, of course.

[orvpark]

for $600 I would get a pair of Rugers

A used P series in your choice of caliber are pretty easy to find between $250-350

Then get a MK series .22LR

You might even have a little cash leftover for a couple of extra boxes of ammo

[UBTKS]

Thanks jad for all the info, I am still going through it.

I might look into the conversion kit some more, but I do want the handgun to be suited for self defense as well so I am looking on getting a higher cal. However I didn't even know those kits existed, I am very appreciative of all this info!!

For those prices though I may just have to pick up a 22 now and see how I like them. I do agree that you can't just have one gun.

And I know at least in my state it's legal to have a sawed off shot gun if I was really that worried about self defense, lol.

Thanks again for all the expertise, I am looking into these ideas now, I really didn't consider them much before and am happy to open my eyes a little :D

[psyopspec]

Right now I am still really debating if the $400 extra from Hi Point to Beretta is worth it. I don't want a gun that won't last.

It wouldn't quite be that much. Hi Points run in the low 100s (I think), and a used Beretta for <400 is not uncommon. So you're really looking at about 250 more, as opposed to 400.

[btg3]

Find a used M&P 9mm (not compact).

1. Price $450.
2. The cost of ammo will allow you to save for your next gun. Serioulsy, do the math.
3. This gun allows for a variety of uses: plinking, home defense, CC, IDPA, etc.

You will shoot and enjoy this handgun!

[Quoheleth]

I'll offer two ultra-budget suggestions:

One, go to J&G sales. They still have Smith & Wesson .38 revolvers for $200. Great all-purpose gun. They are mostly cop/security trade-ins with external wear and good internals.

Also at JG, look at their CZ82 in 9mm Makarov. Ammo is cheap. The gun is heavy for it's caliber, but it's spooky accurate. It's more power than a .380, less than a 9mm. A good learning gun, IMHO. I was going to get one, but a buddy is having hard times so I'm buying something else from him to help him out.

I make these suggestions based on the price of the gun and ammo availability. The 9Mak may not be on store shelves, but via the internet you can get very cheap ammo. Put the savings into ammo. More ammo = more practice = better proficiency.

Q

[armoredman]

I would quickly second the reccomendation of a CZ75B and Kadet Kit 22lr adapter, but the price will be a bit higher than your $600 limit for both. I also agree a good solid 38 special revolver is an excellent choice for the beginner, and a good reliable defensive arm, home or lawfully carried.
A few things you post I want to touch on, first, a "silencer" does not exist. That is a movie thing. They are generally known as "suppressors", and there are many fine suppressors available, if you are willing to go the route of the tax stamp, paperwork, etc. Avoiding any of those steps equals a long and uncomfortable stay in a lockup not of your choosing. Highly not reccomended.
Same thing, "sawed off shotgun" is a term associated with criminal misuse, but a Short Barreled Shotgun, (Barrel under 18"), is a legal class under NFA'34, and also requires legal paperwork, tax stamp, again through ATFE. Contact your local ATFE office for the appropriate paperwork.
If your state is NFA friendly, i.e., allows those firearms restricted by the NFA of '34, e.g., fully automatic, short barreled, suppressed, etc., then you can proceed getting your suppressor, but it won't be fast, and it won't be cheap.
In this case, I would have to follow a reccomednation given above, and say buy a good 4 inch barreled 38 Special revolver, such as a Smith Model 10, and a lot of ammo. Then get quality instruction and practice, a very good investment for the rest of your $600.

[Averageman]

a gunsmith nearby that has a range on site and allows you to rent pistols. Go spend some time and money trying as many different varieties of pistols and calibers as you can and get a feel for what you like. Can't do that?? Talk to some gunowners you know and see if they will take you shooting, buy the ammo for both of you and I am sure you'll get pleanty of range time and meet great people.
You could do a lot of shopping and come away with two good pistols for $600 and a .22 is a great tool to build up your pistol marksmanship.
I would not however buy "blind" (without trying lots of different pistols) any brand or caliber (nor would I dismiss any style, brand or caliber) until you have tried many. Find what fits you naturally and go for it.

[wow6599]

Buy a S&W M&P40.
Lifetime warranty, American made and with a barrel swap you can have a gun that will shoot .40S&W, .357 Sig or 9mm.
You may need to swap the mags for the 9mm conversion, but I'm not sure.

[stbarsh]

xd9 in 4" service or 5" tactical

px4 in 9mm is good, too...very soft shooting

For a first gun I'd avoid the 40 S&W. It has far more recoil than a 9mm. Some say it is worse than the .45

a friend of mine is getting his first gun, and we have him getting a .22 Buckmark or Ruger, just to learn the basics and mechanics of shooting, all on the cheap.

[applekev]

A gun shop near me is selling new Ruger P95's for $299.

[Lar1911]

A P95 is a great choice. i dont own on, but they are a great choice for the money

[UBTKS]

Awesome info, I will probably be going to an indoor range over my winter break and will have to see if they have some of these guns you are listing to try out.

Hopefully with some experience, experimentation and your expertise I will find the right gun for me :D

[Ranb]

I think the advice on getting a 22lr pistol is very sound as is tryihg out various guns at a range first. They are less expensive to buy/feed and just as fun to shoot. I own a 357 mag revolver that gets fed 38 special or lightly loaded 357 mag often.

If you are looking for a good host for a silencer, then the Browning Buckmark, Ruger's, S&W and others are good hosts. I threaded the barrel on my Buckmark to mount a silencer I made on an ATF form 1. It works very well and makes it safe to shoot without hearing protection.

Glocks, 1911's and other Browning or modified browning designs work well with silencers, but since the barrel tips up upon recoil they need a recoil booster to operate reliably, this increase cost of the silencer by about $200 above the usual $500. This does not include the $200 tax to the ATF. A silencer for a 22lr can cost as little as $150. The Barretta and Taurus model 92 pistols are ideal 9mm silencer hosts.

I made a silencer for my Browning HP. The HP is not the ideal host for a silencer. The barrel is too slim to have a shoulder on it so the rear end cap needs to fit very snug on the barrel to align properly. I also had to make the silencer as light as possible and use an 8 pound spring with an inch cut off of it to ensure it functioned well. Any extra weight on the barrel keeps the slide from going back and picking up the next round.

Check out http://www.silencertests.com/links.htm for useful links. Two useful sites are http://www.subguns.com and http://www.silencertalk.com . You do not say what state you are in, but only 37 allow unlicensed civilians to own silencers. Take a look at your state laws first.

Do not expect a silencer to make any gun silent. The word silencer is a legal term in the USA and a marketing gimmick coined by Maxim over 100 years ago when he marketed silencers to the general public. While suppressed 22lr rifles can sound nearly silent, the pistols with their much shorter barrels are nowhere near as impressive. Shooting a suppressed pistol indoors will probably damage your hearing unless you have ear plugs. I have silencers for high powered rifles, and they are only hearing safe with supersonic ammo if shot out in the open. Even if it does not hurt your ears, if the noise is more than 140 decibels, then it will slowly damage your hearing.

Ranb