[emilianoksa]

Anyone one whose ever come across one of my posts will know that I'm an Englishman living in Peru.

38sp is the best round I can get here, and revolvers are difficult to come by. Very occasionally a Smith and Wesson pops up but at astonomical price - as if they weren't expensive enough in the States - but most revolvers are cheap Argentian offerings.

There will be some Taurus snubbies available in the New Year, which will sell for about $700, and from what I've read, buying a Taurus can be a bit risky, due to quality control issues.

An alternative would be a new Russian Makarov in 380 or 9mm Mak, with combat sites, at about $400. These are always available and popular.

I know revolvers are generally more reliable than pistols, but the Mak has a good reputation as semi-autos go, and some of the Taurus revolvers have been known to seize up.

What would you do?

I love the CZ 83 but the thick grip would probably cause printing issues- not so bad in the winter, but for six months of the year here it's stricty t-shirt weather.

I have a couple of guns for range use, and a pump shotgun for home defence, but have never considered carrying before. However there has been quite an increase in armed crime recently and the criminals in this city don't hesitate to kill. All handgun licenses here require you to pass a little marksmanship test (15metres) and come automatically with concealed carry permission.

I know 380 is not considered a good stopping round, but the kind of scenarios that develop here tend to be at very close range indeed. Surely at a few feet, even a couple of 380s to the torso would make an attacker stop and think - provided you could get them off fast enough.

Neither Maks not snubbies have particularly user friendly sights, but the edge might go to the revolver for its better caliber.

I've only come across one 38sp +p load here, and its the UMC leadless cartridge. Do you have any opinion on this cartridge?

I'd love to own a snub nosed revolver, for sentimental reasons, but would a Mak or even a Bersa be more practical?

[hammerklavier]

I would get the mak since it is inexpensive, popular, I assume the ammo is available. They are rather accurate if you do well with the sights. I find that with a little practice they point well. They are very reliable and easy to fix for those rare cases where they do have problems. Polish the feed ramp if you're using hollow points. They hit hard enough due to a decent barrel length and heavy recoil spring. A bit on the heavy side due to solid steel construction.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks a lot.

I thought about weight, but, if I bought a snubbie my preference would be for an all steel one, and so I suppose they'd be similar.

At least the Mak would have a slimer profile.

[jad0110]

I'm a revolver guy at heart, but if I had a choice between a $700 Taurus and a $400 CZ-82 or 83, I'd go with the CZ in either .380 or 9mm Mak. I've never fired one, but they feel great in my hands. I've been considering one as range fun gun, but haven't gotten around to buying one yet. And here in the U.S., I'd go for a 9mm Mak simply because .380 is almost non existant on store shelves and it is quite expensive when you do find it.

[c919]

I'd go with the Mak in 9x18 all day.

[Leanwolf]

C919 - " I'd go with the Mak in 9x18 all day. "

So would I.

If you buy one, buy a couple extra magazines and carry at least one extra loaded, when you carry your pistol.

Good luck.

L.W.

[kingmt]

I know revolvers are generally more reliable than pistols, but the Mak has a good reputation as semi-autos go, and some of the Taurus revolvers have been known to seize up.

Really? I have one that I keep in my pocket & it gets full of dirt & other junk. It has never failed to fire & has never caused one problem. They also carry a lifetime warranty.


What would you do?


I would suggest you stay away from the Taurus because of your concerns.

If you did use it then here is my thoughts on it: It is a low power round to be used as close as possible Without the +P. I don't like the +P in mine because it was all over the place & .38sp was a little closer. Even though this revolver functions as it should I am looking for a auto to replace it with. My 2 cents.

[-eaux-]

never heard any bad reviews on Taurus as far as reliability.
have heard nothing but good about the 9x18 in a Makarov.
sounds like a good problem to have. if it were me, i'd get the Mak and never think twice about it.

[c919]

^^^ Honestly, you've never heard any bad reviews on the reliability of Taurus firearms? Must be a typo....

[trickyasafox]

I have both a cz82 and a smith 36 (older snubbie) and have shot my mother's smith 637 extensively. In addition, I have a PA-63, which is a walther PP clone.

For the price difference, I'd go with either the CZ or the Mak. I know the PA isn't a good proxy for the mak, but they do share some similarities. The 9x18 cartridge is not anemic, and if you go with the cz82, 13 rounds of anything is a force to be reckoned with.

The sights on the CZ out of the gate are far and away the most user friendly, and actually are night sights. they just require a charge from an exterior light source. (kinda like those glow in the dark stickers kids used to put up in their rooms)

I'm not sure what your budget is like, but the cz for winter carry and the mak for summer carry would be a great combination. if you could only own 1, the mak is a much easier gun to conceal- but that is not to say the cz is impossible to work with.

My dad carries my 82 as his preferred gun. When he can't conceal it- he goes with the pa-63.

both would serve you well.

best of luck and let us know what you decide!

[bigfatdave]

Assuming ammo is available and less expensive than .380, I'd pick a Makarov from those options, and stock up on magazines.
Is 7.62x25 an option? Just a random question, it seems like that and 9x18 go together around me.

[The Bushmaster]

Taurus revolver barrels have been known to go down range with the bullet.

I would never own a taurus.

Go with the Makarov. Especially if the ammunition is plentiful...

[TehK1w1]

I own several revolvers and semi-autos, and I carry my Mak.

[GUNDOC454]

As for the type, make or model of firearm that is best for you I feel that the best advise is to decide what meets your minimum and maximum requirements for a concealed carry hand gun. Make sure that you keep in mind your physical capabilities and how you want to carry i.e. shoulder holster, strong side belt or all the others then consider size of gun for the type of carry. Power scale of the gun is very important. Can you shoot the gun accurately? Does the gun have an appropriate stopping power level? can you get quality ammo i.e. hollow points with the best weight vs energy levels etc...... when you narrow all these factors down you will see that it will lead you to a small selection of guns that fit your needs.

I would like to caution these writers in the use of their generalities i.e. "I'll never own a Taurus" etc. I understand that this is an opinion but as a rebuttal to this one, Taurus is a company that produces a very good copy of European & American model guns like Smith & Wesson and Beretta for a very inexpensive price and offers a warranty unlike any other. the Taurus models offers a great dollar value for their semi auto line or their revolver line. As a professional gunsmith I find that fewTaurus revolvers or semi auto's need more work than the S&W originals. All company's have their problem children because of production problems and some are worse than others but if its all the individual has available than lets try to give more positive advise that they can use.

[Radagast]

I'm another vote for the Makarov. They are very reliable, accurate and once you get past the first heavy trigger pull, have a fast short reset.
I have yet to meet a Taurus that impressed me.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks again for all your help.

I'm leaning towards the Mak, partly because revolvers are so expensive and in such short supply. I also happen to like the little semi-auto. It's heavy but fairly slim, and would be quite easy to conceal.

The Mak is available in both 380 acp and the Makarov calibre. These rounds cost the same here - about $28 for fifty.

The Mak round might be better, but I wonder if its long term availability will match that of the 380.

The most powerful round available to civilians here in the past has been 38 super, with the gun to shoot it the Tangfolio CZ clone - I think it's called the EAA Witness in the States. However only one outlet was selling it, and it appears to have gone bust. Very difficult to get 38 super now.

There seem to be plenty of the Mak cartridges round at the moment, from Wolf, Winchester and Sellier and Bellot. But who knows if that will continue. At some stage they may decide to stop making it.

Nothing worse than a gun with no ammo.

Thanks again for your kind replies.

[hammerklavier]

Unless you reload or score some good military ammo, the 9mm mak rounds are only slightly more powerful than the .380. Can you get Remington Golden Saber in .380? Or Santa Barbara 9mm corto for .380 (can't find that in the states anymore).

[hammerklavier]

If you get the mak, add these sites to your reading list:

http://www.makarov.com/
http://forums.gunboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46

[Ryder]

never heard any bad reviews on Taurus as far as reliability.

You have now :D

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86221&highlight=taurus

[JN01]

You could stock up on quite a bit of ammo for the Mak if you use the extra money you would have spent on a Taurus.

Some folks have good luck with their Taurus revolvers, but even so, I don't see them as a $700 gun.

[emilianoksa]

A Smith and Wesson would cost me the thick end of two grand.

I'll probably go with the Mak.

But what do you do when you really have a hankering for a 38 snubbie?

It's like an itch that won't go away.:D

To be honest, I'd actually be prepared to pay $700 for a Taurus. What stops me is the possibility that, one day, when I had to pull the trigger, it wouldn't go bang.

I might be lucky and get a good one. On the other hand, "lucky" is not my middle name.

[charliehustle10]

What about a Rossi .38 snub?

Doesn't Glock make a .380 that is readily available in South America? Could be wrong....

[Cosmoline]

With those choices I'd go with the Makarov, provided it is a Makarov and not a cheap knockoff.

But is CCW legal in Peru?

[Zundfolge]

As has been stated many times in this thread, given the choices available I'd go for the Mak in either caliber.

Many people will poo-poo Taurus revolvers, but considering your options there, a Taurus would be just fine. Just run a couple hundred rounds through it before you depend on it (of course this goes for ANY CCW gun). I'd trust the Taurus over a Rossi (but just slightly).

Then keep your eyes out for a good deal on a S&W. Maybe you'll find a nice one that's been sitting in someone's bottom drawer that they'll let go cheap.

Of course since the first rule of a gun fight is; Have a gun! Just run out and pick up a Mak and a good concealment holster ASAP.

[emilianoksa]

All handgun licences - even 22lr - come with automatic concealed carry permission in Peru.

The Makarovs are Russian civilian versions, but without the adjustable rear sight, that I wouldn't want anyway.

Not up to E. German or Bulgarian quality, but not bad.

I have a Glock 25 in 380, and it's a nice gun, but a bit big to conceal in hot summer weather.

If it weren't for the grip size, I'd probably go for a CZ 83, because I love the trigger and it has good sights. It's just not as cocealable as a Mak. The CZ costs about $600.

There's also the Sig 232, but you're talking about $1,200 for that. Nice gun, but I'm not paying that for it.

Revolvers are very difficult to get hold of here. People can't afford the Rugers and Smiths, and even the Taurus guns only crop up occasionally and in small numbers. When they do, people with contacts get to them first.

The one revolver that is here at the moment is the 4" barrelled Taurus 82. I was thinking about one for home defence, but they seem to get mixed reviews.

[Zundfolge]

The Russian commercial Makarovs are every bit as well made as the Bulgarian Maks (especially if they don't have the crappy adjustable sights ... which were slapped on them to meet US import requirements that all handguns imported be "sporting arms"). The East German and post unification (Simson Suhl) Maks are a little nicer, but frankly Maks are all built like tanks and very reliable (well some folk claim the Norinco Model 59s suck, but I have no experience with them).

I miss my Bulgarian ... had a set of Novak low profile sights and African Blackwood grips on it ... sold it years ago to finance another gun but wish I'd have kept it (like most any other gun I've sold in the past).

EDIT
Here's what the slide on my Mak looked like.
http://makarov.com/graphics/custom/gfmakslideLS01.jpg


On a side note, you should make sure you're not trying to solve a software problem with hardware. Mindset and training are more important than which piece you pack.

[makarovnik]

If you can get a steady round of ammo I would get the Mak. I think they are easier to carry and almost as easy to operate as a .38 j-frame.

I have about 1000 rounds through my Mak and not even a hiccup, which surprises me given all the cheap ammo I have ran through it. The 9x18 is almost equal to the .38 special regular pressure rounds.

Nice thing about the .38 special is the excellent +P rounds available. If all you can get is round nose ammo the 9x18 is just as good as the .38.

I carry truncated FMJ in my Mak and they even start to tumble a little beyond 30'. It's still dead nuts on accuracy wise.

[googol]

If you're interested in strong opinions backed up by anecdotal evidence, this is the place. Firearms discussion boards aren't always known for closely reasoned arguments. Here's my anecdotal evidence: I put hundreds of rounds through a Taurus M85 Stainless DAO revolver with only one hiccup, caused when I short-stroked the trigger. The thing has a lifetime warranty, it's rated for +P, and it's offered in a lot of configurations.

If you want something like objective analysis, search for reviews of the guns you're considering. The reviews will still end up being the opinion of the author, but at least they'll probably be backed up by some facts.

[emilianoksa]

Thanks again.

I looked at the Taurus revolvers yesterday. The cylinders were locked up so I couldn't see if there was any play in them, and was unable to work the trigger.

I must say that cosmetically they were impressive for the price. Surface work was very nice, and the parts seemed to fit together very well.

I even liked the blued 82 with the four inch barrel. It seemed a pretty substantial gun.

But the little 856 in stainless steel had the most appeal. I was reminded of a line from the Scorsese film "Taxi Driver" when the arms seller presents De Niro with a snubbie 38 : "Ain't that a little honey?":D

Not a Smith and Wesson or a Ruger of course, but the Taurus fit and finish seemed pretty good, considering what they sell for in the States.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

We bought 4 new Taurus .357 magnum 4" bbl revolvers brand new for company use. After about a month, 0 rounds fired through the gun, the only time being used was worn in a holster for ~9 hours a day, I went to test one of them out as I routinely do. I dry fired the gun for the first time in its life and the trigger went back, and then never came forward again, just laid there flopping around. It had to be sent back.

FWIW YMMV IANAL IDK JM2C ETC

[emilianoksa]

What about the other three?

[emilianoksa]

Thanks again for all your help.

Decided to buy the Mak today, and ordered a Taurus 82 for home defence.

Risky business buying the Taurus I know, but I just couldn't afford a Smith or Ruger, and a four inch barrelled 38 special is about the most powerful handgun I can get here.

Maybe I'll be one of the lucky ones.:D