10mm defense ammo?


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BlayGlock
November 28, 2009, 07:31 PM
I finally decided to get serious about stopping power and bought a Glock 29 :evil:

For those of you who carry a 10mm, what defense ammo do you use? I was thinking a 165gr. at around 1250-1350 fps would be just dandy.

What say you?

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wally
November 28, 2009, 07:57 PM
I'm a heaviest bullet for the caliber man. I like the Double Tap 200gr XTP loads.

Double Tap or Georgia Arms is about the only way you are going to get full power 10mm ammo without loading your own.

--wally.

ak-kev
November 28, 2009, 08:02 PM
I bought a box of Silvertips (175gr) and load them using Power Pistol to 1320fps. I feel comfortable with that. Kevin.

jmr40
November 28, 2009, 08:03 PM
For self defense against people the lighter loadings are just fine in my opinion and I think you are on the right track. I use the hotter 200 grain loads from Double Tap in my G20 only when carrying it while in areas with black bear. The 10mm is a versatile round and full power loads are not always needed.

agtman
November 28, 2009, 09:35 PM
"I finally decided to get serious about stopping power and bought a Glock 29."

Good for you, BlayGlock. :) ... Yeah, it's cool. :cool:

In my G29, I'm currently packing Double Tap's 165 Gold Dot HPs. In the colder weather, I'll pack either DT's 180gn Golden Sabers or 200gn XTPs, or Buffalo Bore's 180gn JHP.

Some like their 10mm using the lighter-weight bullets; I prefer it in the heavier and fast loads.

But then, that's me ... ;)

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo166/agtman/G29-5.jpg

BlayGlock
November 28, 2009, 10:45 PM
I think the 180 grainers would be more suitable for backup when feral hog hunting, I just wanted to get a bead on what people like for self defense?

Thanks for the replies so far.

IdahoLT1
November 28, 2009, 11:34 PM
The 10mm, when loaded hot, has alot of muzzle flash. I notice it more in the 10mm than any other semi auto caliber. In every cartridge, the lightest, fastest loads have more flash than the heavier, slower loads. For HD, a medium powered, 180 or 200gr bullet would probably be the best choice regarding muzzle flash.

According to Mike McNett, the Double Tap 135gr. loads fragment and have the lowest penetration.

http://www.ar15armory.com/forums/Off...ge-t40940.html

freakshow10mm
November 28, 2009, 11:54 PM
I handload 180gr GD to 1300fps for my carry load. If Speer ever releases the 200gr as a component bullet, I'm pushing it to 1200fps and using that.

BlayGlock
November 29, 2009, 11:57 AM
Thanks for the info Freakshow. I found your website yesterday and I will be ordering some ammo form you in the near future.

jdh
November 29, 2009, 01:04 PM
Winchester factory 175 Silvertips. Been carrying them since that was all you could get (or afford on a cop's pay, the Norma stuff must have been made with gold instead for lead) for duty ammo in the 80s. Always function in any pistol I've tried them in, they are 50 FPS faster than the 175 41 Mag Silvertips, accuracy is good, recoil is manageable, and muzzle blast is moderate.

freakshow10mm
November 29, 2009, 01:23 PM
Had the pleasure of shooting a box of Norma 200gr FMJ at 1200fps. Wonderful.

Kingofthehill
November 29, 2009, 01:26 PM
Winchester Silvertips

MachIVshooter
November 29, 2009, 01:55 PM
I use handloaded 180 grain Golden Sabre's for defense. They clock 1,400 from 5" gun and 1,340 from my 3.5" Witness Compact.

That said, I grew tired of the weight and bulk of the Witness for carry. Most of the time these days, it a K-T PF9 or a S&W CS-45. I love the 10mm, but it's awesome power dictates that it cannot be safely chambered in smaller, featherweight guns that are better suited to everyday carry. But my primary HD handgun is my S&W 1006.

agtman
November 29, 2009, 02:54 PM
Freakshow10mm:

If you start producing a 10mm load using a Speer 200gn Gold Dot HP @ 1200fps/640fpe, I'll be your first customer for it ... ;)

:cool:

agtman
November 29, 2009, 03:13 PM
BlayGlock:

The heavier bullets are, IMO, necessary in scenarios in which you're likely to encounter intermediate barriers. Such barriers can include any number of things like wood of various densities, metal, auto glass, but especially in the colder weather (or if you live in areas of the U.S. where the winter season is long) various clothing material that is bulky, layered or densely constructed, or that consists of heavy denim and leather. Such material can slow or deflect a projectile or cause premature expansion, thereby inhibiting deep penetration to vital organs. Even overly large metal belt-buckles have been known to stop or deflect certain bullet-styles in certain calibers ...

True, the 10mm is versatile enough - with its huge array of bullet-styles and weights - that you can find a dedicated "woods load" for back-up while hunting, but don't get sucked into believing the heavier 10mm loads are only good for "hunting/woods" use and the lighter ones for SD, EDC, or duty use. The classic "heavy & fast" 180gn, 190gn and 200gn loads (with the right HP bullet) are suitable for defensive uses too.

Also, as someone pointed out, McNett @ DT makes what is essentially a "designer" low-penetrating SD/HD load using the incredibly destructive 135gn Nosler JHP @ 1600fps/768fpe. This load was specifically created for users who wanted the least amount of penetration for, e.g., EDC in crowded urban areas, SD inside a thin-walled apartment, etc.

harrygunner
November 29, 2009, 06:04 PM
I like heavy and fast. I use DT 180gr 10mm XTP in my carry guns, a 1911 and a Glock 29.

Hornady states the 180gr XTP is designed for speeds between 700 and 1500 ft/sec. I suspect Gold Dots are near their limit at real 10mm speeds. Interestingly, Hornady specs their 200gr XTP to 1200 ft/sec, so I standardized on 180gr.

For 200gr+, I use DT's hardened lead flat nose ammo when I'm in the woods.

BlayGlock
November 29, 2009, 06:45 PM
Thanks for the info guys.

Gunfighter123
November 30, 2009, 12:26 AM
Winchester Silvertips as factory loads or my handloads with a Nosler 135gr. JHP at around 1450 fps.

BlayGlock
November 30, 2009, 11:33 AM
Ive been doing some research on and Ive seen some several folks who beleive that the 135gr has the best stopping record. I could see how it could be very effective, but Im not sure if the information is accurate?

freakshow10mm
November 30, 2009, 12:07 PM
It is not street proven. No LE agency that carries a 10mm issues a 135gr bullet. The only mainstream manufacturer of that weight is Nosler and it's a "sporting" JHP for target work and small game hunting such as squirrel, rabbits, etc. I would never willfully carry that for protection purposes. I would choose a more solid design.

Rodd
November 30, 2009, 02:46 PM
I have a S&W 1006 (4") that I carry here in West Texas. I load it with factory Super-X 175 gr Silvertips. I've shot a number of West Texas whitetails with this pistol and load, the farthest shot just shy of 50 yards. All shots have been broadside or just slightly quartering. The bullet always penetrates through and through. I have yet to recover one, but the damage done is extensive and the deer never run more than 10 or 15 yards, if that. Deer average 100-120 pounds. A deer isn't a man, of course, but you can extrapolate from my experiences. BTW, recoil with this gun and load is notably more than a typical 5" .45 1911.

agtman
November 30, 2009, 06:11 PM
Rod: the S&W 1006 has a 5" barrel, as does the 1026 with its Sig-style frame-mounted decock lever.

The Smith models 1076 and 1066 have Commander-length 4.25" tubes. Is yours one of those?

:cool:

mokin
November 30, 2009, 06:56 PM
I carry 175 grain Winchester Silvertips in my Glock 29. I haven't shot any through a chronoraph yet but I've noticed all the other rounds I've clocked are significantly slower than the listed velocity. Muzzle velocity aside, I like the Silvertips because they are heavy (enough), have a relatively mild recoil and muzzle flip, and are as accurate as anything else (more so than a lot) I've tried. But, as far as velocities listed on ammo boxes and reloading data I now take all that with a large grain of salt.

Man With A Gun
November 30, 2009, 07:02 PM
Anything with a Gold Dot on it is fine.

The 10mm is a great round and there are some wonderful pistols and revolvers made for it.

KBintheSLC
November 30, 2009, 07:40 PM
I use either 165g Golden Saber at 1425 fps, or 200g XTP at 1250 fps... both from Double Tap Ammo. Either will make quick work of any 2-legged predator.

BlayGlock
November 30, 2009, 09:35 PM
I am really leaning towards the 165gr, although I do have some 180s' on the way and I would like to do my own ballistics test with them, say on a hog if I get a chance.

DC3-CVN-72
December 1, 2009, 12:33 AM
I use 175 gr. Winchester Silvertips in my S&W Model 1006.

BlayGlock
December 1, 2009, 12:38 PM
Here is some ballistics according to Double Tap from his ammo:

DoubleTap 10mm
135gr JHP @ 1600fps - 11.0" / .70" frag nasty
155gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1475fps - 13.5" / .88"
165gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1400fps - 14.25" / 1.02"
165gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1425fps - 14.75" / .82"
180gr Golden Saber JHP @ 1330fps - 16.0" / .85"
180gr XTP @ 1350fps – 17.25” / .77”
180gr Gold Dot JHP @ 1300fps - 15.25" / .96"
200gr XTP @ 1250fps - 19.5" / .72"
230gr Equalizer @ 1040fps - 11.0" and 17.0" / .62" and .40"

Now I know that the velocity from my Glock 29 will be lower than advertised becuase of the shorter barrel, however the 165 gr Gold Dot seems the best to me: 14'' of penetration and 1.02'' expansion!

Here is a youtube video showing this loads performance in a water jug test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZKxB8GATLU

sqlbullet
December 1, 2009, 03:44 PM
I carry the 165 gr Golden Saber from Double Tap when in two legged country.

I carry a 175 gr SWC hardcast that I handload when I head into the mountains. Once some time frees up to experiment, I plan on deciding on a 200-210 grain mold and the 175 will be relegated to practice.

Rodd
December 1, 2009, 06:12 PM
Re: my post yesterday on the S&W 1006: I have a 1066, durn it. You'd think I'd know my own pistol... geez. Gettin' old and forgetful. Anyway, everything else was correct. Thanks for reminding me.

A couple of other things: The 1066 came stock with a bobbed hammer. I replaced mine with a hammer that has a spur 'cause I like to cock the hammer first when shooting at game. Also, I purchased and installed an MMC adjustable rear sight and a new front sight, both with tritium inserts. I didn't care for the factory low-profile fixed sights.

Relatively speaking, this is a big, heavy pistol, even with a 4" bbl. I like the 10mm round a lot, for all kinds of reasons unrelated to self-defense, but the 1066 is a mite heavy for everyday wear, which is probably one reason they weren't that successful in the marketplace. A Glock would likely be a better choice from the standpoint of weight.

agtman
December 1, 2009, 06:47 PM
BlayGlock:

Just FYI, but those advertised velocity/penetration/expansion figures for the listed DT 10mm loads are as chrono-ed from McNett's stock 4.6" G20.

If you check out GT's 10Ring, there's a sticky there listing the figures for all or most of those same loads from a stock G29 - and, yeah, comparable velocities is less for the G29.

Again, just FYI. :)

agtman
December 1, 2009, 06:52 PM
Rodd: it sounds like your Smith 1066 is set up real nice. Actually, the 4.25" Commander-size is a bit handier than it's bigger brother, which I have, the 1006.

Plus, both being single-stacks, they do conceal nicely, no worse than a 1911 in that respect. Admittedly, they're on the weighty side.

Trade-offs, ... but at least there are choices out there in 10mm. ;)

BlayGlock
December 2, 2009, 11:31 AM
Thanks for the verification agtman, I assumed he was shooting from a larger gun but didnt know.

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