Springfield 1911 Mfg'd Where ?


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okieman1
November 29, 2009, 12:03 PM
This is a spin off from my last thread concerning SF 1911's When looking at SF Web site the picture of the Loaded Series item # PX9151LP its stamped Geneseo,IL and I assume that's where its manufactured. However when looking at the same pistol in my local gun shop it stamped "Made In Brazil" Should I have a concern of manufacturning quality, of course I'd prefer the USA mfg gun

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Yo Mama
November 29, 2009, 12:11 PM
The frames are made in Brazil by IMBEL, which is a high quality manufacturer. The gun is put together in the USA.

I wouldn't worry about the quality, and I'd search around here for discussion on this.

SundownRider
November 29, 2009, 12:12 PM
The Imbel manufactured Springfields are as good as the ones manufactured here. Springfield wouldn't put their stamp on them if they were inferior. WHo wants to deal with all of the quality issues? I own one of the made in Brazil ones, and it is a wonder. Some of the parts are manufactured in Brazil, then they are assembled here.
If you feel strongly about it, hunt around until you find a USA one. Bottom line, you're buying it, you're shooting it. If you have concerns, you can do three things:
1. Breathe in.
2. Breathe out.
3. Move on.

9mmepiphany
November 29, 2009, 12:57 PM
Springfield doesn't currently, and never has, sell any handguns that are manufactured in the USA.

their 1911 frames have always come from Brazil, the XD from Croatia and their older P9 from Italy

Rugers, S&W and Sigs are manufactured completely in the USA

MachIVshooter
November 29, 2009, 01:11 PM
Rugers, S&W and Sigs are manufactured completely in the USA

Uh, If we're talking strictly 1911's, then you have to exclude Ruger. If we're talking full line-up's of US made handguns, then you have to exclude Sig.

As for 1911's made here, it's most of them. Colt, S&W, Kimber, DW, Les Baer, Wilson, Ed Brown, Fusion, Nighthawk, USFA.

Not sure about STI, and I know Para's are Canadian. RRA/Rock Island are made in the Phillipines.

DaveBeal
November 29, 2009, 01:20 PM
I believe that while it's based on Brazilian parts, the Springfield TRP 1911 is, to some extent, hand-fitted in the US.

Yo Mama
November 29, 2009, 01:26 PM
Springfield doesn't currently, and never has, sell any handguns that are manufactured in the USA.

their 1911 frames have always come from Brazil

Negative. Only a few years back did SA change to Imbel. Prior to this, they were made fully in the USA. You can find plenty of examples on the frame of Brazil vs. Il, although why SA chooses to stay based out of IL is another question. :banghead:

9mmepiphany
November 29, 2009, 02:11 PM
Prior to this, they were made fully in the USA.

as Springfield is primarily an importer, would you enlighten me as to who produced their frames and slides for them?

9mmepiphany
November 29, 2009, 02:13 PM
Uh, If we're talking strictly 1911's, then you have to exclude Ruger. If we're talking full line-up's of US made handguns, then you have to exclude Sig.

oops...exclude Ruger

JohnBT
November 29, 2009, 02:54 PM
According to a magazine article I read some years back, all of the frames were made in Brazil, BUT some of them were imported into the U.S. in unfinished condition. The frames that had the slide rails machined in the U.S. were marked made in the U.S. I assume they're still doing some of this, but haven't bothered to check on it recently.

John

JTQ
November 29, 2009, 04:07 PM
Not sure about STI, and I know Para's are Canadian. RRA/Rock Island are made in the Phillipines.

STI's are made in Texas, except for the Spartan which is made by Armscor (same as Rock Island Armory) in the Phillipines,

ParaOrd is now ParaUSA and has moved manufacturing to North Carolina. Some pistols on the shelves are probably still from the Canadian factory.

RRA and Rock Island Armory are different companies.

Rock River Arms (RRA) is in Illinois, but no longer makes 1911's. They have concentrated all of their current production on AR-15's. There are RRA pistols out there and they were all built in Illinois. They were a semi-custom maker, along the lines of Wilson and Baer.

Rock Island Armory is from the Phillipines (Armscor).

Springfield 1911's all come from Brazil. The higher up the Springfield lineup you get, the more fitting is done in the US. My understanding is the GI's come complete from Brazil, where as the higher end TRP is mostly fitted in the US from mostly Brazilian made parts with some higher end pieces added.

There are a lot of good pistols out there. Whatever you buy will probably work pretty well.

Yo Mama
November 29, 2009, 05:30 PM
as Springfield is primarily an importer

Sadly this is the case now a days, but this is a recent action.

Prior to this, they made all parts in house.

JTQ
November 29, 2009, 07:29 PM
Prior to this, they made all parts in house.

The US Government's Springfield Armory, in Springfield, Mass., did.

The company, Springfield Armory in Illinois, did not.

Two completely different Springfield Armory's.

Jolly Rogers
November 29, 2009, 09:48 PM
I don't believe there are many gun companies (similar to S.A., Baer, Ed Brown, Fusion, Wilson etc.)that have the manufacturing facilities to forge and/or cast frames and slides for 1911s. I'd like to find out just what companies can and do produce those parts.
Joe

9mmepiphany
November 29, 2009, 09:56 PM
i thought i read that Baer made their own frames and slides. it's been a while since i read it, back when they opened

earlthegoat2
November 29, 2009, 09:59 PM
1911s are quickly becoming like AR15s.

Soon enough there are going to be a handful of parts suppliers selling the same parts to many different companies and all 1911s are going to be the same just like all the ARs.

Just with different prices.

okieman1
November 29, 2009, 10:58 PM
Accuracy is very important and that's the main reason for the adj. sights, so which ever one I pick will need this option. Hopefully the 1911's are a accurate has everyone say's.
Just not sure if the P19140LP is worth the extra $$ over the P19132LP when both have the adj. sights.
Thanks to all and more opinions will always welcomed

Quack
November 30, 2009, 12:08 PM
All Springfield Armory 1911's are built from IMBEL forgings. It's been that way since the early/mid 80's (~1984), when they (Springfield Armory Inc./Geneseo, IL/Reese family) started making 1911's. Those with the "NM" prefix have >51% of the fit/finish/assembly done in the US. The 1911's built in Brazil will have the import markings.

jfh
November 30, 2009, 12:27 PM
Quack gets it right for the early SA 1911s. My 'NM" frame was finished here in the US, and that was purchased in 1988 / 89. However, I don't recall if that is an IMBREL forging.

When I first checked into some of the current models--ca. 3 years ago--I was under the impression that the 'high-end' models were finished here in the US.

Jim H.

tipoc
November 30, 2009, 04:52 PM
Springfield also makes long guns and has for quite some time. Makes them at their plant.

tipoc

HexHead
November 30, 2009, 04:58 PM
1911s are quickly becoming like AR15s.

Soon enough there are going to be a handful of parts suppliers selling the same parts to many different companies and all 1911s are going to be the same just like all the ARs.

Just with different prices.
Yeah, but I don't know anyone that is doing the kind of hand fitting many 1911 makers do to ARs.

9mmepiphany
November 30, 2009, 05:23 PM
I don't know anyone that is doing the kind of hand fitting many 1911 makers do to ARs.

because they don't need it to function properly

MachIVshooter
November 30, 2009, 11:41 PM
RRA and Rock Island Armory are different companies.

I Know RRA and RIA are not the same company, but weren't the Rock River 1911's also built also by Armscor? I was pretty sure.

tipoc
December 1, 2009, 09:15 AM
Rock River Arms...
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=209

has never had a connection to Armscorp (which produces the Rock Island Arsenal guns). Two separate entities.

tipoc

silversport
December 1, 2009, 10:08 AM
Quack speaks the truth...

If it helps...a buddy and I both bought Stainless Mil-Specs from the same company at the same time to be used in the first "Project Street Gun" class put on by Teddy Jacobson and Stephen Camp...

Our pistols arrived from the same dealer in the same shipment...mine had the NM marked serial number and no Imbel markings (despite it being made there...see Quack's response) and his with the N marked serial number and the Imbel, Brasil markings...

A cursory look at both pistols showed that he and I had different front sights...his matte stainless portions of the Mil Spec were a darker gray than mine and mine felt perhaps more smooth when racking the slide (a very subjective observation)

since 2005...both of our pistols have been flawless and near identical running...no sights have shot loose, various mags work fine (I like Tripp CobraMags, he likes Wilson's)...both feed just about whatever we put through them...

(an interesting note was that while the internal dimensions of each stainless Mil Spec were identical, they were different than those on the Parkerized Mil Specs in the class...this caused an end to the use of the stainless model and truth be told...I wish now mine was a Parked model...)

Bill

Rinspeed
December 1, 2009, 01:24 PM
Never seen so much misinformation in one thread. :confused:

JohnBT
December 1, 2009, 04:37 PM
Care to enlighten us? We're dying to know what you think you know. ;)

John

JohnBT
December 1, 2009, 04:49 PM
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=49574

"This comes straight from Deb/Vicky at Springfield... if > 50% of the work is done on one of their pistols in Brazil, then somewhere on that pistol it will be marked "Brazil". Should > 50% be done in Geneseo, IL, then it does not require a "Brazil" marking.

That is where the "MADE IN BRAZIL" rollmarks come from... placed above the serial number. That is one variety of markings that will show up on Springfield's G.I., Mil-Spec and Loaded pistols.

Another is the "Geneseo IL USA" found just above the serial number. There's essentially two common variants of this... for example, in the Mil-Spec line, if it has a N serial number prefix, you will find "IMBEL BRAZIL" or "FI BRAZIL" laser etched in two places. The locations are the bottom side of the dustcover and underneath the right grip panel on the frame. If you find a NM serial number prefix, those markings are usually always absent and the "GENESEO IL USA" rollmark still appears above the serial number on the frame.

Understand this part- ALL Springfield Armory 1911A1 pistols start their life in the forge presses of IMBEL in Brazil. There the frames, slides and barrels are forged... regardless of what markings are later applied or where the majority of the work is done."

Rinspeed
December 1, 2009, 06:22 PM
Care to enlighten us? We're dying to know what you think you know.

John



Sure.



The frames are made in Brazil by IMBEL, which is a high quality manufacturer. The gun is put together in the USA.


Wrong.




Springfield doesn't currently, and never has, sell any handguns that are manufactured in the USA.


Wrong.



RRA/Rock Island are made in the Phillipines.


Wrong.

9mmepiphany
December 1, 2009, 06:36 PM
^^^

well that was helpful

RedLion
December 1, 2009, 06:44 PM
^^^^wrong! :neener:

WoofersInc
December 1, 2009, 07:46 PM
Quote:
RRA/Rock Island are made in the Phillipines.


Wrong.

RRA or Rock River Arms are made in the U.S. However the Rock Island guns are made in the phillipines.

Rinspeed
December 1, 2009, 07:48 PM
RRA or Rock River Arms are made in the U.S.





I know, I own one. ;)

okieman1
December 1, 2009, 08:24 PM
Well what storm this started, but even so I'll let you know I did purchase the Loaded
PX9151LP yesterday and couldn't be happier. I beleive what I've heard hear and other places including a conversation with Springfield that whether forged, machined and assembled here is the U.S. or down south it should be a quality gun. I comfortable in believing if SF puts their stamp on it then it should be a quality gun. I do appreciate all the input and interest this post generated and alway value you guys and your opinions.

Thanks & Keep the powder burning

mr.scott
December 3, 2009, 10:12 PM
Should I have a concern of manufacturning quality, of course I'd prefer the USA mfg gun
So you'd rather have a Hi-Point?

HisSoldier
December 3, 2009, 11:18 PM
here's some "It seems to me" stuff.

The made in USA is not about quality, it's about history, an American icon, begun in the USA, marketed mostly to people in the USA, appreciated in the USA. Quality is not geographic, it's management.
Still, American management and American manufacture counts for something, and it costs a lot. I'd like to own a 1911 forged in house, made and fitted in house, and marketed to Americans in house in America!
My understanding is that DW will be making forged frame 1911's next year, they will also be making most of their own parts, none of them MIM, in house. I'm willing to pay for that.

And, to show that I'm not a made in USA bigot, I really like my RIA. :D

Quack
December 3, 2009, 11:35 PM
My understanding is that DW will be making forged frame 1911's next year, they will also be making most of their own parts, none of them MIM, in house. I'm willing to pay for that.


DW is owned by Czech company, so how does that factor in? ;)

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