Full size double stack .380?


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w_houle
November 30, 2009, 11:16 AM
Seen what one manufacturer has to offer, and beside who is offering it(please don't go there), and has me thinking about the idea.
It looks like the .380 is gaining some traction in the market: Kel Tec, Ruger, and the new DiamondBack (just to name a few) have something to offer in a pocket pistol; but to buy a .380 in a larger platform just leaves a person choosing from a short list. I have two: an unmentionable, and a Hi Point(both single stacks).
I also know that it will also eventually lead to 9mm vs .380; then again why not .40 or .45? Then again I've felt the .380 would be a nice round for new shooters, and it isn't .22. Hopefully it would also mean the .380 would receive a dedicated production line, and be less of a novelty round. So how do you feel about a double stack .380, and who would thrill you if they made one?

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usp9
November 30, 2009, 11:21 AM
So how do you feel about a double stack .380, and who would thrill you if they made one?

Beretta 84
Taurus PT58
CZ83

ArmedBear
November 30, 2009, 11:28 AM
.380's resurgence in the US is entirely because of pocket guns. Elsewhere it tends to be related to laws limiting the caliber that individuals can own.

usp9, those aren't full-size guns in my book, though they're bigger than the Kel-Tec P3AT.

Personally, I am not particularly interested in a full-size 9mm, to say nothing of anything smaller than 9mm -- except for .22LR target guns of course.

hammerklavier
November 30, 2009, 12:08 PM
I own a medium sized .380 and will probably buy another one in pocket size soon, but it doesn't interest me. I like the small caliber small gun, larger caliber large gun philosophy.

Prince Yamato
November 30, 2009, 02:13 PM
The Mac-11 :evil:

wally
November 30, 2009, 02:18 PM
usp9, those aren't full-size guns in my book, though they're bigger than the Kel-Tec P3AT.

They are big for their caliber. The .380 hung around mostly because of guns like the PPK and SIG P230 until the super small plastic wonders hit the streets causing a recent resurgence that has made .380 ammo hard to find.

Concealed carry laws had a lot to do with making the market viable as the P3AT etc. aren't much use at the range once the novelty wears off.

--wally.

Snowdog
November 30, 2009, 02:26 PM
So how do you feel about a double stack .380, and who would thrill you if they made one?


I feel the Cz83 is essentially just that. Being identical in all but caliber, I greatly enjoy my Cz82 (9x18). Having said that, I have no expectations nor any desire to see a full-size double stack .380acp in today's market. Why a .380acp and not a 9mm with mild loads that would nearly replicate the ballistics?

ArmedBear
November 30, 2009, 02:31 PM
They are big for their caliber.

That's not what "full-size" means, though. A full-size semiauto is typically a gun with a 4" or 5" barrel, and a full-length grip. See the XD Service, the standard 1911, or the Beretta 92/96/M9. Those are full-size semiautos.

The P3AT is not intended as a range toy. Then again, neither was the PPK or the many similar guns it spawned like the SIG P230, CZ83, etc.

There are full size .32 autos, because they are used in competition, mainly in Europe, as they qualify as "centerfire" but have minimal recoil. There are many full-size .22 autos, beacuse they are used in competition worldwide, and because they're fun to plink with.

Where does the .380 fit? It doesn't.

A Beretta 92 doesn't have much recoil with standard pressure loads. There's no reason to use 9x17mm (.380) instead of 9x19mm (regular 9mm Luger/NATO).

The sole purpose of the .380 is to provide enough power to make a pocket gun viable for self-defense. It fills that niche quite well.

9mm and .22LR make perfectly fine range toys. There's really no demand for something in between, and I'm not interested, either. Even factory 9mm is too expensive these days, and anything smaller gets to be a PITA to handload.

rellascout
November 30, 2009, 02:34 PM
Browning BDA has already come and gone. Well they are sort of back now.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v238/Gixerman1000/Handguns/BrowningBDA380.jpg

saturno_v
November 30, 2009, 02:43 PM
I totally agree with ArmedBear


Full size double stack 380?? Why???

Nowdays with the good selection of pocketable 9mm the 380 is questionable even for a mouse gun.

And the 9mm, IMHO, is questionable in a full size pistol given the enormous selection of .40 and .45. in the market.

My pocket piece is a KT P-11

wally
November 30, 2009, 02:45 PM
That's not what "full-size" means, though. A full-size semiauto is typically a gun with a 4" or 5" barrel, and a full-length grip.

Well my CZ-83 barrel is 3-13/16" by my measurements if you want to quibble :).

Can't recall ever seeing a .380 bigger than the Browning BDA or Beretta 84. Not that I was looking :).

--wally.

TexasBill
November 30, 2009, 02:50 PM
We have three .380 pistols: My wife has a Browning BDA .380, I have a Beretta 84FS Cheetah and a Walther PK380.

The Beretta and Browning are double-stacks. They each have a 13+1 capacity. IMHO, the Beretta is about as full-size as a .380 needs to get. It's a lovely pistol and easy to shoot.

Don't like the mini-pistols; the Walther PPK is about as small as I will go in .380. My idea of a good SD gun is one I can put 50 rounds through and enjoy it so much that I put another 50 rounds through it. I figure it shouldn't be an endurance test.

KBintheSLC
November 30, 2009, 02:55 PM
I agree with those who state that there just isn't much of a market for a full-sized 380. The 380's growing popularity is a result of expanding CCW rights. If people could comfortably conceal a full-sized gun, they would likely load it with a full-sized caliber.

JMusic
November 30, 2009, 03:43 PM
Why, even the mac eleven is not impressive. WHO, why ,why.:evil:




Jim

9mmepiphany
November 30, 2009, 04:13 PM
i found the Mac 11 very impressive as it was more controlable that the Mac 10 and the suppressor is smaller and more effective.

while many don't consider the Beretta 84 or Sig 230 "full sized", they were designed as "belt guns" (read duty) for LE and would correctly be called duty/service sized for their calibre

w_houle
November 30, 2009, 05:40 PM
Browning BDA: I think someone just pointed out my next gun:D

nitetrane98
November 30, 2009, 06:28 PM
You can do far worse than a BDA. The grip is only about 1/2-3/4 inch shorter than a High Power, slide about 1 1/2" shorter. It's one of my favorite guns. Very comfortable shooter.

1KPerDay
November 30, 2009, 07:04 PM
Taurus made one for a while... might still. Held about 19 rounds IIRC.

1KPerDay
November 30, 2009, 07:06 PM
Yep... model 58.

http://www.taurususa.com/2009catalog/?catalog_page=20

TexasBill
November 30, 2009, 07:08 PM
The Browning BDA .380 is back, if you know how to get one. My wife got her brand-new BDA in August of this year. It's a gorgeous pistol. Even though I have the Beretta, I would still like ot have a Browning of my own.

Browning doesn't officially list them anymore but the still make them in batches for Davidson's Gallery of Guns (http://www.galleryofguns.com/).

hirundo82
November 30, 2009, 08:09 PM
Glock makes a compact (G19 size) .380, the Model 25 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glock_pistol#.380_ACP). The ATF won't let it be imported as it doesn't qualify for "sporting use" :rolleyes:.

That aside, I honestly don't see the point of a full-size .380 vs. 9x19. You aren't going to gain any capacity, the ammo is more expensive, and there is going to be more felt recoil due to the blowback action vs the locked breech of the typical 9x19 gun.

freakshow10mm
November 30, 2009, 08:14 PM
The Browing BDA .380 is the only .380 I would ever own. Shot one before. It's like a big ass .22.

w_houle
November 30, 2009, 08:36 PM
Glock makes a compact (G19 size) .380, the Model 25. The ATF won't let it be imported as it doesn't qualify for "sporting use"
I was under the impression that some Glocks are shipped into the U.S. with certain parts so they can make points, then swap those parts out once in the states. If Glock worked hard, they could get creative with it and have it make points too. If they did: I'd be owning one:D

dogtown tom
November 30, 2009, 09:09 PM
freakshow10mm The Browing BDA .380 is the only .380 I would ever own. Shot one before. It's like a big ass .22.

Did you know the Browning BDA is actually manufactured by Beretta?

Years ago, FN contracted with Beretta to manufacture the BDA. The gun has rollmarks from Beretta, FN and Browning. Explains the Beretta style slide mounted safety.

Shortly after the FN contract, Beretta began marketing their own version- the 84, followed by the single stack 85. Magazines are interchangable between the BDA & 84.

The main differences between the two:

Hammer
84- Round
BDA- Spur

Sights
84- Taller
BDA- Tiny, smaller "half moon" than the old Hi Power had.

Safety
84- Frame mounted
BDA- Slide mounted

Slide
84- Open top
BDA- Closed

Trigger guard
84- early models had a rather small curved TG, later a larger style with checkering in the front of the TG.
BDA- same as the early 84 TG.


I own a couple of BDA's. They are one of the prettiest handguns I've owned. But if I had to choose between the BDA & the 84 for concealed carry- hands down the 84. Better sights, better safety location and the round hammer of the 84 doesn't snag or gouge your ribs like the BDA spur hammer does.

Micro
November 30, 2009, 09:39 PM
Here's how a CZ83 .380 compares to a CZ75 Compact 9mm.

http://members.cox.net/micropterus/Czech_pistols.jpg

Nearly the same size. So I really don't see the practicality of a gun the size of a CZ83 in .380 when a 9mm can be had in a similar size.

Practicality aside, however, the gun is a extremely comfortable. It carries exceptionally well. I carry it in an Uncle Mikes inside-the-pants holster which I usually just tuck into my pants pocket. There's something about it I just really, really like. So I carry it. Even though there are better choices.

w_houle
November 30, 2009, 09:58 PM
Nearly the same size. So I really don't see the practicality of a gun the size of a CZ83 in .380 when a 9mm can be had in a similar size.
Neither do I, as it can be found in 9x18 and it seems (for now) that 9x18 is cheap and plentiful.

rellascout
November 30, 2009, 10:06 PM
Did you know the Browning BDA is actually manufactured by Beretta?

Did you know that browning does not make any guns? They are a name plate. All their guns are made by other people. LOL

MICHAEL T
December 1, 2009, 12:56 AM
Bersa has a double stack 380 Thunder in the line up Its same size as the 380 thunder except in the wider grip for the double stack mag. 14+1 if I remember right.

freakshow10mm
December 1, 2009, 09:30 AM
Did you know the Browning BDA is actually manufactured by Beretta?
Yes I'm aware of that.

huntsman
December 1, 2009, 12:57 PM
So how do you feel about a double stack .380, and who would thrill you if they made one?

I already own one a BDA and I make no apologies for owning it. The pocket .380 or lightweight 9mm doesn’t interest me.

ice monkey
December 1, 2009, 02:24 PM
I own a Sig 232. Itís a 7 shot .380. Itís really too big for a .380. :( Thing is, its great fun to shoot! Itís also easy to keep on target. I would love a Beretta full size .380. I bet it would be awesome. :)

I guess full size .380ís are like .32ís in the revolver world. Not the most popular guns, but so much fun to shoot - they just donít go away Ö though they now have the .327 making it more of an all-round caliber than the .380.
Why a full-size, double stack .380? Cuz they are just a blast to shoot!

usp9
December 1, 2009, 11:21 PM
It’s really too big for a .380.

Compared to what? It's the size it is so that you are able to "keep on target'"and makes it "great fun to shoot". It's the size that makes it such a great gun.

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