Need 9mm Full Length Sizing: Lee FCD?


PDA






mousegun380
November 30, 2009, 11:36 PM
Hello,

I searched and found many people with this problem, but no real great solutions except for one which confuses me.

I have a .40SW Redding GRX pass thru sizing die which I love for removing the bulge on those loads. I have never had a problem with bulge on 9mm loads until today when I locked up my pistol so bad I had to leave the range.

It appears that Redding does not make a 9mm version of the GRX pass-thru die and some posters mentioned modifying a Lee Factory Crimp Die by removing its guts and using it as a pass thru like the GRX. Do I understand that right?

I'm currently using:
Hornady LNL Press
station 1: Hornady full length sizing decap die
station 2: Hornady expander die
station 3: Hornady powder measure
station 4: Hornady seating die
station 5: Hornady taper crimp die

Thanks everyone.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need 9mm Full Length Sizing: Lee FCD?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
rfwobbly
December 1, 2009, 12:37 AM
Same thing happened to me. Gun completely jammed during the 2nd of 6 stages. :cuss:

There are ways to size the full length of the brass, but brass for most auto pistols is so plentiful that when I find one that's mis-shapen I simply chuck it into the garbage and go on to the next case. To me, it's not worth the cost of fixing. However, it is worth the cost of detecting.

The easiest way to spot cartridges or brass that will jam your gun is to slide each one into a full-length cartridge gauge that you can get from Midway, Dillon and many others.

For about $13, it's a very handy item to have. Makes a great stocking stuffer too.

mousegun380
December 1, 2009, 08:07 AM
Yea, I've thought about getting one of those. I usually use a barrel off of one of my guns if I am actually testing. Problem is I run thousands at a time because I am loading for multiple shooters. I can't imagine test fitting thousands of rounds. Heck, the .40's drive me crazy because I have to GRX each of them in addition to regular loading. Thanks for the suggestion. That is exactly what I will have to do in the meantime.

steve4102
December 1, 2009, 09:33 AM
Lee Factory Crimp Die by removing its guts and using it as a pass thru like the GRX. Do I understand that right?

Correct. I do this with my 10MM. I have a Redding GRX die and I quit using it. The LFCD is carbide and works much better than the Redding.

mousegun380
December 1, 2009, 09:43 AM
Correct. I do this with my 10MM. I have a Redding GRX die and I quit using it. The LFCD is carbide and works much better than the Redding.
Is the Redding GRX not carbide? I haven't been using case lube! I wonder if I've ruined it.

Walkalong
December 1, 2009, 09:49 AM
The easiest way to spot cartridges or brass that will jam your gun is to slide each one into a full-length cartridge gauge that you can get from Midway, Dillon and many others.

For about $13, it's a very handy item to have. Makes a great stocking stuffer too.
Gauge all your brass after sizing and chuck anything that doesn't pass the gauge in the scrap bin. I fail maybe 10% of range brass I check with a gauge after sizing.

I gauge 9MM brass now because I have a tight chambered EMP. Anything that passes the gauge will feed, fire, and eject 100%. Anything that doesn't will jam it up. The Lee FCD die used as designed will not cure bulgded brass problems. I suppose what you propose might work, but I don't want to use brass I have to do that to to get to work. It just isn't that many, and 9MM brass is cheap or free.

atblis
December 1, 2009, 09:51 AM
I have never seen/had that problem with a 9mm. 10mm and 40, yes. 9mm, no.

Did you pick up some range brass of unknown origin? If so, perhaps you picked up some that had been loaded to 9mm major, or fired out of a gun with some problems.

I tried the Lee FCD die through thing with some Glocked 10mm brass. It didn't size any tighter than the regular Lee sizing die.

Marlin 45 carbine
December 1, 2009, 11:47 AM
I'll have to differ with walkalong and say that I run my 9mm and .45acp loads through a Lee FCD to crimp (lightly) and every so often it does seem to have 'smoothed out' a bulged case. I use the seating/crimp die just for seating the slug, cast slug loads I adjust the crimp even lighter. works for me or has so far but then I'm doing good to fire 1K pistol rounds from all the different pistols I have per year as I shoot BP front stuffers quite a bit too. I definitely use the FCD for all the 'premium' slug loads I make up for myself friends and relatives in .380acp, 9mmPara and .45acp.
all my female relatives have the .380acp pistols except one that prefers the .32acp which I very carefully center the slug in the case before placeing into the press for seating/crimp.

mousegun380
December 1, 2009, 12:57 PM
I have never seen/had that problem with a 9mm. 10mm and 40, yes. 9mm, no.

Did you pick up some range brass of unknown origin? If so, perhaps you picked up some that had been loaded to 9mm major, or fired out of a gun with some problems.

I tried the Lee FCD die through thing with some Glocked 10mm brass. It didn't size any tighter than the regular Lee sizing die.
Yea the brass is just regular old range brass. Just whatever I pickup generally. It could have been loaded hot, shot out of an old Glock...you name it. You guys make a good point that I probably shouldn't use those loads anyway. There certainly isn't a ton of them like there are with .40SW.

Walkalong
December 1, 2009, 02:13 PM
I'll have to differ with walkalong and say that I run my 9mm and .45acp loads through a Lee FCD to crimp (lightly) and every so often it does seem to have 'smoothed out' a bulged case.

It will not fix the buldges near the case head that are the problem the OP is talking about. If the sizer can't, the lessor diameter carbide ring in the FCD certainly can't.

What the FCD die can do is smooth up bulges up higher from crooked seated bullets etc.

The idea to use the FCD die to push a case all the way though is interesting. If the diameter of the carbide ring is right, it should work, but again, 9MM brass is so cheap that I would rather toss cases that need that much sizing.

rcmodel
December 1, 2009, 02:17 PM
The problem with a push-through die for the 9mm is, it is a tapered case with .011" difference from mouth to rim.

The .40 S&W is a nearly straight case, with only .001" differance from mouth to rim..

rc

mousegun380
December 1, 2009, 02:24 PM
Yea the more I think about the pass thru thing, I think it won't work for 9mm because of the slight taper. Are the 9mm sizing dies really tapered in there? If that's the case, then a 9mm would get stuck when the larger base got to the smaller top of the sizing die on its way trying to pass through.

On a side note, I just got an email back from Redding in response to me asking them about a 9mm GRX:

"Thank you for using Redding Reloading Equipment. The rim on the 9MM LUGER
case is slightly larger than the body. This makes it difficult to force the
case through a push-thru die. We've tested prototypes and decided the
concept would not work. Sorry."

Walkalong
December 1, 2009, 02:29 PM
Case closed. :)

I still recommend gauging all the sized brass. If it passses the gauge, and we don't screw it up loading, it will not jam up the gun. I gauge all my 9MM brass after sizing for reasons posted earlier, but I do not gauge the finished rounds. never have a problem.

If I was shooting IDPA or something, I would probably gauge every loaded round as well. Some folks just use the FCD to squish any potential problems to avoid having to gauge all the rounds.

NavyLCDR
December 1, 2009, 02:30 PM
I would put the Lee FCD in place of your taper crimp die. I have had fantastic results with it.

mousegun380
December 1, 2009, 02:32 PM
Thanks for all of the suggestions. I think I may use a little bit off all of them. Better inspection, gauging, and maybe a LFCD to replace my hornady standard TC die.

Thanks guys.

1SOW
December 2, 2009, 12:01 AM
Re LEE FCD and removing bulges: Just some observations and a question.

It's been mentioned on this forum at least once and maybe more; but the LEE 9mm FCD as the fourth die on a turret press will 'often' lengthen the coal with a minor (.377-378)taper crimp set--enough to take out the bell and seat nicely in my guns.

I've reloaded my son's factory 9mm win 115gr white box brass, shot in a CZ with a close tolerance chamber. I measure my 1.135 coal after seating the bullet. It will usually gain about .0005 to .001 or slightly more in length after using the FCD. I don't really know how far down the 9mm case the FCD has any effect, but it's got to be farther than the bell put in by the powder die.

His SPO1 Shadow is only a few weeks old and is not a loose gun. I can understand old brass, brass out of some glocks, brass from a defective gun, but eliminate all these reasons. Where did that extra length come from?? I get the impression it resizes farther down than I expected.

I used my son's ammo as an example , because I know the ammo and the gun that shot it.. The Lee FCD does this with PPU, Win and others I load. It does it with range brass, my once fired brass, but never tried new brass.

I did have occassion to take some dealer reloads off the shelf that had given me feed problems with my CZ. I ran them through the FCD and they dropped right in---they also 'grew' slightly---mixed brass.

I had 400 new rounds.

rfwobbly
December 2, 2009, 09:14 AM
Yea the brass is just regular old range brass. Just whatever I pickup generally.

The difference here gents is the range where you pick up the brass.
General public range, probably 99% OK
Police ranges have a lot of SMG brass and they usually have unsupported chambers due to their blow-back design, proabably 70-80% OK.
IPSC competition range where shooters are firing "9 major" and "355 Super", probably 70-80% OK.

All brass is created equal, but not all brass is loaded or fired equally.

....................

Back to OP Mr. Mouse....
Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you gauge every round you load. What I should have said was to gauge "every round you intend to fire in competition or SD". You're correct, there is no need to gauge ones you fire at a public range for general plinking since you're not "under the clock" or being shot at. There you can take your sweet time to use a wooden dowel to clear the barrel/ chamber and return to shooting with no penalty.

mousegun380
December 2, 2009, 09:24 AM
The difference here gents is the range where you pick up the brass.
General public range, probably 99% OK
Police ranges have a lot of SMG brass and they usually have unsupported chambers due to their blow-back design, proabably 70-80% OK.
IPSC competition range where shooters are firing "9 major" and "355 Super", probably 70-80% OK.

All brass is created equal, but not all brass is loaded or fired equally.

....................

Back to OP Mr. Mouse....
Sorry, didn't mean to suggest you gauge every round you load. What I should have said was to gauge "every round you intend to fire in competition or SD". You're correct, there is no need to gauge ones you fire at a public range for general plinking since you're not "under the clock" or being shot at. There you can take your sweet time to use a wooden dowel to clear the barrel/ chamber and return to shooting with no penalty.
Ahh I see what you were saying. The brass is from a variety of sources unfortunately in the undesirable columns you just mentioned. Mostly police brass from a department and the range where the whole county qualifies. I had assumed that they were using their Glocks and Sigs, but it is plausable that SWAT shot some of the 9mm in their MP5's. The range brass I pick up is almost always from a private range where they hold IPSC, IDPA and the like. I don't get a ton from there because everyone reloads but if I help set up for a match, the "pay" is that you can collect brass. So once again it is very plausable that brass has been handloaded - and possibly hand overloaded.

On a side note, I never carry reloads for SD for legal reasons.

atblis
December 2, 2009, 10:11 AM
His SPO1 Shadow is only a few weeks old and is not a loose gun. I can understand old brass, brass out of some glocks, brass from a defective gun, but eliminate all these reasons. Where did that extra length come from?? I get the impression it resizes farther down than I expected.

Do you have a set of calipers? Start measuring stuff at all stages of the reloading process.

If you enjoyed reading about "Need 9mm Full Length Sizing: Lee FCD?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!