sig sauer still good gun?


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Kangspec
December 1, 2009, 11:14 PM
Well, this model scream buy me!!! buy me!!! <sig sauer dark elite>

I read/heard sig saure's quality control has been down. Does this effect on all new models? or some?

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Jed Carter
December 2, 2009, 05:13 AM
I own 5 SIGs all have been flawless in operation, for every person that screams about how bad a gun (any gun) is, there are 10 that silently enjoy their firearms. Of all my guns I have only had issues with the .22lr auto pistols and rifles, .22lr ammo limitations. Get a SIG P226 box stock with night sights and no rail and you will have a pistol to bet your life on, and win. I have not and probably will not get a "custom" SIG, a beaver tail on a SIG is just not right. IMHO.

JohnBT
December 2, 2009, 08:14 AM
I recently bought my first SIG and have been doing a lot of reading on line, especially old posts at sigforum. The issue seems to be that for many, many years SIGs were near perfect out of the box (except for the rust problem), but for the past few years they've turned out a few problem guns here and there. I guess they're human after all.

Then there's the whole Germany vs. USA thing and the new owners and the plant in NH and what the customer service is like compared to the good old days, etc.

Buy the gun if you like it. :)

I like the beavertail on my X-5 Tac. It's a pretty big gun and the beavertail fits right in with all that black and the threaded barrel.

John

kurt1305
December 2, 2009, 09:35 AM
I've purchased two in the last year (a P226 and P239) to keep my P220 company. All have fired several hundred rounds with no stoppages, misfires or problems of any sort. Accuracy is superb and they show no signs of any abnormal wear. My new Colt Commander, on the other hand, fails to chamber the last round a good percentage of the time with either the Colt or Wilson Combat magazines. Still working that one out.

wojownik
December 2, 2009, 12:28 PM
I have the following, and so far can report no malfunctions/FTF/FTE or any other issue. All have been very, very accurate out of the box.

P220 (Exeter) - bought NIB earlier this year. No issues, though there seems to be something I can't pin down that makes my P220 "seem/feel" different from my older Sigs. I have to double check, but IIRC, this came with a plastic guide rod (the others are steel), which is something I meant to replace a while ago.

P6 (P225) (Germany) - no issues - have two of these and both are fantastic.

P226 (Germany) - I had some reliability issues when I ran this pistol very, very dirty. So, that does not really count as a malfuntion with the pistol, rather a malfunction with the user :o

P228 (Germany) - no issues

P229 (Exeter) - no issues

CoRoMo
December 2, 2009, 01:11 PM
...what the customer service is like...

That's what I want to know. The wife wants a P238 and I wouldn't have a huge problem with a gun that needed a little nudging to get onto its feet, if it wasn't perfect out of the box, but if they are going to be jerks about correcting their mistakes, I'll tell the wife to keep looking for .380s.

Any of you ever dealt with their warranty service?

Lonestar49
December 2, 2009, 01:24 PM
...

Yes.. :)

Be it warranty, or parts, their CS is fast, friendly, polite, and they seem happy, proud, professional, about their job taking care of their customers, "with needs".

Warranty repairs are done correctly and in good time..

Parts (in stock) are picked and shipped within the week.

It's nice knowing that not only are you buying a "good/great gun" but you're also getting a good/great CS dept to back it, them, up, as well

OMMV,


Ls

9mmepiphany
December 2, 2009, 01:30 PM
i've had very good lucky with their customer service in the past. i got a chance to meet the head of CS a couple of years ago at the SHOT show and we had a meeting of the minds.

i've found they are really interested in trying to solve problems, but you have to remember that their service is a product of the information the have in front of them...they aren't techs. their biggest complaint are when folks call demanding something based on what they read/heard on the internet rather than an actual problem.

CoRoMo - i would suggest your wife keep looking for a better option

blue_ridge
December 2, 2009, 01:54 PM
I own a 226 Elite and it is the best pistol I've ever owned (including Colt Delta Elite, Springfield Operator, Kimber CDP Pro II, Glock 30, Gock 23, Glock 22, Para Carry and others)

I am now plotting my next Sig purchase, possibly a P228, P225 or P239. These are amazing guns inside and out for reliability and accuracy.

Lonestar49
December 2, 2009, 01:57 PM
...

Don't rule-out a Sig P229/40/9mm.. ;)


Ls :)

ny32182
December 2, 2009, 02:08 PM
I used to be a big Sig fan, but I am currently down to 3: P228, P229ST, and P226/.40/non-rail model. I am likely to sell the 226 at some point this month; it is a good gun, just doesn't fit well in my collection right now.

I don't think I went anywhere; my opinion is that Sig left me when they shifted from focusing on building no-BS, top quality carry guns, to focusing on building all their same models, but adding beavertails, weird colors, "Blackwater" grips, Equinox-that, rounded edges-this, "tactical" editions... basically any gimmick they could dream up to sell the same pistol with less QC for $400 more markup.

Plus the 556 turned out to not be what I wanted.

So, I like my "old style" Sigs, consider them classics, and don't intend to ever sell the 228 or 229ST, but I can't forsee ever buying a current model unless the company gets back on track. But even if they do... I switched to Glocks in 2006 and haven't looked back; I've found they are perfect for my purposes.

Also, I know a few internet postings don't speak for everyone, but I've read enough poor QC, and customer service horror stories in the last year to give me pause. I only had to deal with Sig QC once. I had an SP2022 with some funny marks on top of the barrel. Sig gave me a shipping label with no problem and turned it around quickly, but all they did was polish the marks a little; they were reduced, but still there. They were cosmetic; it was a carry pistol, so I let it drop. I'd have been less amused if it had been a high dollar X5 or something. I also had intermittent failures to lock open on an empty mag with that SP2022 that I was never able to fully resolve even after replacing the spring and polishing all the contact surfaces on the slide catch. All my other Sigs always functioned perfectly.

KBintheSLC
December 2, 2009, 02:56 PM
I have been happy with mine... 239 circa 2000, and a 226 circa 2008. Both work well and are machined with care. I think the "1 mag only" deal is pretty lousy, so I would likely only buy a used one until they go back to 2 or 3 mags per gun. Honestly, I have a hard time justifying a Sig anymore in price. For $200 less I can get a Glock/M&P/XDm/etc that is just as functional and will likely survive a much higher round count.

I have to admit, the new 238 is calling out to me lately.

JohnBT
December 2, 2009, 03:53 PM
Just the other day I read that they've ended the one mag policy. John

Coltman 77
December 2, 2009, 04:04 PM
I recently purchased a P220. It has been very impressive; accurate and uber reliable.

After 700 rds of assorted ammo I've had zero failures.

Fit, finish and overall quality are excellent. I'm very pleased with my new Sig. :D

CoRoMo
December 2, 2009, 05:34 PM
Posted by 9mmepiphany
CoRoMo - i would suggest your wife keep looking for a better option

Yeah. I'd rather she not carry a .380 at all. I looked at a P238 with the nitron finish earlier today. The finish on the safety had been rubbed right off, down to bare metal, by whatever number of people had handled that pistol. That didn't impress me.

Water-Man
December 2, 2009, 05:40 PM
I can only speak of the quality of the P226 and P220. They are both great pistols. Accurate and dependable.

Curare
December 2, 2009, 06:01 PM
I handled a P238 yesterday. The fit and finish was OUTSTANDING. For a half second I though about buying it just because of how cute and perfectly finished it was. It had jewelery quality fit and finish.

For a few years I noticed really spotty fit and finish on SIG firearms.

MM60
December 2, 2009, 06:24 PM
Two weeks ago I sold my Glock 19 and some misc. parts in order to do what I did this afternoon: I used the money to purchase a brand new Sig P239 .40S&W concealed carry package on GunBroker.com! It includes the P239 pistol with Siglite Night Sights, three magazines, Sig paddle holster, and Sig magazine paddle holster. The entire package cost me $675 plus $25 for shipping. Other sellers are offering the same package starting at $750 + $30 for shipping, and some are selling only the pistol and two mags for as much as $800 + $35 for shipping! I'll be looking forward to picking up this great bargain from my dealer next week or so!

I already have the Sig P226 Navy model and it works flawlessly. I also have the Sig 22lr. conversion kit for it, but the ammo sometimes causes the conversion to malfunction. I got the P239 to replace the P226 as my main CCW because the P226 is somewhat bulky and it's often uncomfortable to wear while sitting. The P226 will be reserved for tactical situations once the P239 arrives. I wish Sig made a P239 22lr. conversion kit!

Sig makes some of the best handguns in existence. Their quality is exellent, their designs are ergonomically pleasing, and their DA/SA trigger is very crisp. Get yourself a Sig - you won't be disappointed!

And don't waste your money by overpaying at a store - look for a good deal on GunBroker.com!

rhinoh
December 2, 2009, 06:39 PM
I looked at a P238 with the nitron finish earlier today. The finish on the safety had been rubbed right off, down to bare metal, by whatever number of people had handled that pistol. That didn't impress me.

Only the slide is Nitron coated. The frame is anodized aluminum and I'm not sure what the safety and the slide lock levers are finished with but they don't look like Nitron to me.
I wouldn't worry about the finish off the safety lever, heck a display gun may have had that safety flicked more than yours would in a lifetime. It does have a rather satisfying click, particularly when disengaged. It just begs to be clicked on and off.
You asked about warranty experience- Well 2 of my 3 mags for my P238 weren't right, Sig replaced them in advance of me sending the old ones back at their expense.
Then last week I discovered I had the wrong rear night sight on mine, was an 8 supposed to be a 6, now I know why it shot high, called them up and they sent me a 6 with no request for the 8 to even be returned, now thats amazing because a rear night sight is what $50 or so? They probably figured they couldn't reuse it if I returned it since it would probably be a little buggered up from me driving it off. BTW I'll never do that again, I now have a universal sight pusher on the way. I really didn't enjoy hammering away on a drift on my little P238 slide....

Now don't take any of this as defending Sig, they highly pissed me off a couple of years ago on some free gear offers they had, they screwed that program up enormously and I was to the point I was never going to give them another dollar, but then the P238 came out...sigh:cool:

PS I have a German P228 and P220 Carry, love them both and never a problem with either.

KBintheSLC
December 2, 2009, 06:56 PM
I handled a P238 yesterday. The fit and finish was OUTSTANDING. For a half second I though about buying it just because of how cute and perfectly finished it was. It had jewelery quality fit and finish.

Yeah... I just handled one for the first time this morning. Loved it... right away. One of the coolest little guns I have seen in a long time. I don't even really care much for 1911's or SAO in general, but it hooked me. They had the stainless finish with aluminum grips and factory night sights for about $460. I will be breaking open the piggy bank soon.

revjross
December 2, 2009, 07:51 PM
"Yeah. I'd rather she not carry a .380 at all. I looked at a P238 with the nitron finish earlier today. The finish on the safety had been rubbed right off, down to bare metal, by whatever number of people had handled that pistol. That didn't impress me."

I bought a P238 last week. The safety doesn't have a finish on it at all, probably stainless. So the one you looked at had not had the finish rubbed off, it never had one in the first place. The fit and finish on this gun is incredible. I've had it to the range once and it ran flawlessly and was very accurate at 15 yards. I have owned 7 Sigs over the LAST 10 YEARS and they have all been great guns. --- Just my experience.

Kangspec
December 2, 2009, 08:08 PM
I was looking at P226 9mm/elite dark.

Are new/old P226's made in Germany?

9mmepiphany
December 2, 2009, 09:51 PM
thee only 226 currently made in Germany is the X-5 and X-6

rellascout
December 2, 2009, 11:36 PM
The guns these days are not as nice as they used to be. They are not the same quality that where coming out of the W. German factory. Exeter still makes a decent gun. The majority will come out with no issues but the number of problem guns has gone up in the last few years.

They are using more MIM and plastic parts yet the prices are still going up. They have issues with gauling caused by burrs covered in Nitron stripping the oxidization right off the frame cutting the life of that pistol in half. The list goes on and on. Now this does not mean every Sig will have these issues. The exact opposite is true. Most will have no issue but the number who do is going up.

The P238 is not a quality gun. Bruce Gray even commented that it is not up to the standards of the P Series guns and that it is a gun full of compromises that was made to fit a price point. Again you may get a great one. You might love it but there have been a ton of teething issue reported. I won't even get into the fact they marketed them with aluminum grips only to ship them with wood and are now charging $150 for the Hogues it was originally designed with. People when ape **** and Sig said so sorry.

I am a strong supporter of SIG Sauer. Unfortunately, as one who knows about such things, I must advise anyone considering a P238 to look at other options. It's just not what I'd consider to be a serious, reliable platform.
FWIW, GGI will not work on them. -Bruce Gray


Sig CS is far from stellar. It all depends on who you get on the phone. It is very hit or miss. They used to be like S&W who will answer questions about particular guns like DOB but these days Sig charges for that. They also do not always cover shipping on warranty work.

I am a Sig fan. I think I still own 8 Sigs. I just think that they can do better and they should do better. If you are going to buy a new Sig I suggest that you inspect is carefully before you take it home. Once you get it home make sure you checking the slide for burrs before you shoot it because if you gaul the frame they are not going to help you. I also recommend grease these days on sigs.

I am not saying don't buy one I am saying buy one and know what you are getting and know what to look for. This is not your fathers Sig Sauer.

DougDubya
December 3, 2009, 02:39 PM
Look past the P238, and get a GOOD SIG .380 - the P232. It fixed the fragile grip problems of the P230. Trigger may be a little long, but it's flat and sweet.

rhinoh
December 3, 2009, 05:47 PM
I bought a P238 last week. The safety doesn't have a finish on it at all, probably stainless. So the one you looked at had not had the finish rubbed off, it never had one in the first place. .

Was it a Nitron finished gun or the SS one? My Nitron P238 has a black safety, I wouldn't be surprised to see a bare one on the SS version.

rhinoh
December 3, 2009, 05:53 PM
. I won't even get into the fact they marketed them with aluminum grips only to ship them with wood and are now charging $150 for the Hogues it was originally designed with. People when ape **** and Sig said so sorry.



Wood? Hell mine are plastic!

See that switch tactic is what pissed me off when they had some "offers" awhile back, register online and get a particular Sig knife for only $5 shipping.
The knife came and it wasn't the one they advertised, heck it wasn't even worth $5 IMO. Blade had "Sig" on one side and "China" on the other, total POS.
Then I got some "free" Sig Tac gear, for buying a P220, ordered a shooting vest and they sent the wrong size, and I had to pay to return it to fix their mistake. They were total pricks about it....more I think about I almost wish I hadn't bought the P238. It did cost them several sales as I bought 3 Walthers that otherwise would have been Sigs...great return on their investment sending me the POS knife:neener:
Maybe they'll "get it" some day...

revjross
December 3, 2009, 07:45 PM
You are right rhinoh, it is a stainless P238. That does explain it then. BTW, I do like my P238, even if Bruce Gray doesn't consider it a reliable platform. Time will tell on that. It is the most accurate 380 I've ever shot, only my P232 came close. --- To the bigger subject, it sure sounds like Sig has had some quality issues by what some have said here and otherwise. It is really compounded if you contact them and their customer service is bad too. --- I am gald to say that hasn't been my experience with them or their guns.

NavyEngineer
December 3, 2009, 07:53 PM
If you are leery of newer SIGs, plenty of older ones are available. I only own one - bought a 228 in 1993 - thousands of rounds later, it has never let me down. Can't speak for customer service - I've never needed it.

NG VI
December 4, 2009, 01:26 AM
I used the money to purchase a brand new Sig P239 .40S&W concealed carry package on GunBroker.com! It includes the P239 pistol with Siglite Night Sights, three magazines, Sig paddle holster, and Sig magazine paddle holster. The entire package cost me $675 plus $25 for shipping.

That's an awesome deal. I was looking at a 239 a couple of years back but put it down when I noticed the tag of over $800, for the basic model, no night sights.

MM60
December 4, 2009, 01:41 AM
Some dealers on GunBroker are trying to charge $800.00 too, but you can buy a P239 on GunBroker with Siglite sights and at least 2 mags right now - new - for about $700 plus shipping:

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=148884785

Here's the same thing I got, but for $55.00 more:

http://v2.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=148986539

03Shadowbob
December 4, 2009, 09:36 AM
My 238 is a very very well built gun. Mch better built than anything else on he market in it's class right now except the much higher end pocket 380s.
I bought this a week ago. The finish isn't what I wanted but for Signites sights, beautiful wood grips and a "rare" finish at $410, I couldn't pass it up.
I do wish they would have given me 2 mags but it wasn't a deal breaker.
One day my daughter will love this gun which is the other reason why I bought it.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/guns/SigP238003.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/guns/SigP238006.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/guns/SigP238007.jpg
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s113/BJCWALL/guns/SigP238010.jpg

EagleNineZero
December 4, 2009, 02:07 PM
+1 on the P232 for a .380. Otherwise try a P239 in 9mm or . 40 - they are about the same size (although the P239 is heavier - solid metal). My wife loves her P239 (her ccw) and she's easily able to handle it in .40.

Rexster
December 5, 2009, 04:52 AM
My several SIGs, all P229s made from 2004 to about 2007 or early 2008, work fine. I reckon the recent contracts from DHS and other entities may have strained the QC process, compared to SIGs made before the post 9-11 demand spike, but mine work well.

Sig Man
December 12, 2009, 09:26 AM
I also own a few Sigs. I carry a P225 most of the time, but carry the others as the "mood" strikes me. I would not hesitate to have to depend on one to save my life. I could not say that about some of the other guns I've ever owned.

Campusninja
December 12, 2009, 12:07 PM
This is my only SIG in my collection. Of all the SIG's I've owned, this model fits my small hands the best. I would recommend this model in any of the other calibers in a heart beat.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Campusninja/P239005.jpg

rellascout
December 12, 2009, 12:21 PM
Campusninja

Nice all German P239.

sigman
December 13, 2009, 11:27 AM
.45 &.40 cal
They are beautiful and flawless.Never any jams or failures.My next purchase will be the Glock 20 10 MM though.
I like the magnum 200 grn. XTP hollow poin rd., Double Tap brand.

9mmepiphany
April 15, 2011, 05:12 PM
Rather than bring back a thread this old...things do change over time...I'm going to move this to a new thread

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