Why do aftermarket Mini-14 mags SUCK??!!!


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stchman
December 3, 2009, 01:30 PM
Hello all, I recently purchased 8 mini-14 mags from CTD and they ALL SUCKED!!!

None of them worked properly. I bought 6 40 rounders and 2 30 rounders. Some would rock in, but none of them fed ammo worth a darn.

My question is WHY? Why do manufacturers make these mags, sell them, all the while knowing they suck.

I am not going to blame CTD, they don't make them. CTD took them back no problem.

Is it that difficult to duplicate the Ruger Mini-14 mag?

I wonder my Mec Gar does not make a Mini-14 mag?

Who makes the mags for Ruger for the Mini?

What about the Mini-30 folks?

You can get decent inexpensive AR-15 mags all day long. They look nearly identical to Mini-14 mags IMO. Why, why, why?

Thanks.

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thebigc
December 3, 2009, 01:33 PM
ruger sells their own hi caps to civilans now so you can get the good ones

stchman
December 3, 2009, 01:36 PM
Yes, they are pricey though.

My folks asked me what I wanted for Christmas. Ruger 30 round factory mags for the Mini-14!!!!

jem375
December 3, 2009, 02:59 PM
I just bought 2 Ruger 20 round mags from Midwayusa for $29.95 each... expensive but hopefully they will work.

niteowl
December 3, 2009, 03:01 PM
Keep an eye on CDNN, especially when they run weekend specials on shipping. They usually have the factory 20 rounders for $24.95, and the factory 30's for $29.95.

Gryffydd
December 3, 2009, 03:04 PM
The question still stands. Why can't anybody but Ruger make good mags for the Minis? Obviously AR mags have the benefit of military contractors etc, but there are plenty of other guns out there that you can buy decent magazines from a number of manufacturers.

dom1104
December 3, 2009, 03:17 PM
yikes. seems like half the threads on this forum are relating to the mini, and people saying some aspect of it sucks.

Ruger needs to get its act toghether.

ilbob
December 3, 2009, 03:26 PM
I have a number of aftermarket mags that worked quite well. But they are all 20+ years old. Maybe they made them better back then.

The only ones I ever had trouble with were some that claimed they worked in both ARs and Mini14s. They didn't work very well in either.

stchman
December 3, 2009, 03:34 PM
Ruger does have its act together.

Just because a 3rd party cannot make mags it is not Ruger's fault.

ny32182
December 3, 2009, 03:55 PM
Magazine production in general baffles me.

Its a stamped metal box with a spring in it. Thats it. It is an *extremely* simple device. This is the 21st century. We can make microprocessors that are infinitely more complicated, with extreme reliability, for a few bucks. We've been able to send men to the moon for the last 40 years. We can sequence the human genetic code.

Magazine production should be easily done flawlessly, and they should cost $.50 each, allowing for a healthy markup.

I don't know how this sort of operation gets screwed up, really. Its amazing, that people who have convinced the public to pay them $10-$50 for a $.30 piece of stamped sheet metal, are not able to even stamp it right in many instances. I swear one day I'm going to get into the mag business. I think I'd be an instant millionaire. :rolleyes:

Vikingsoftpaw
December 3, 2009, 04:16 PM
The only decent aftermarket mags for the Ruger Mini I've
come across were made by PMI. I had a few of their stainless
mags. Reliable but pricey.

briansmithwins
December 3, 2009, 05:23 PM
Its a stamped metal box with a spring in it. Thats it. It is an *extremely* simple device.

No, it's not.

It's bloody hard to get the exact geometery right that ensures feeding.

Didn't is take Garand the better part of a decade to get feeding right on the M14?

BSW

ny32182
December 3, 2009, 05:35 PM
I work for a company that makes solid state electric meters. To put it in perspective, these are of course, far less complicated than a destop PC, or an automobile, or something of that nature, but as example, they are far more complicated than many people realize:

1) Tens of millions of dollars invested in development costs for a brand new one.
2) Circuit boards printed by precision high speed placement machines. Tremendous mechanical speed and accuracy required. Not to mention the sofware that drives it afterward.
3) Mechanical construction of the base requires tremendous precision for accuracy.

The market price of our devices varies by customer, but is *roughly* three times the cost of a standard "high end" magazine, for an *infinitely* more complicated item. For that matter, the meter is way more complicated than the entire firearm, never mind the magazine.

Geometry is a question of design. Once it is worked out, the manufacturing of a magazine should be an absolute cakewalk for any modern operation to perform well.

Bornking
December 3, 2009, 06:48 PM
I have 10+ ramline polymer mags that work awesome in my older Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. I got them cheap from a friend who couldn't get them to work in his newer Mini 14!

wheelgunslinger
December 3, 2009, 06:59 PM
It's simple supply and demand.

People that own and shoot the mini 14 tend to be cheap or broke. This is not a segment of the population given to purchasing the best of anything, so they google their way to the cheapest magazine and buy it saying "ah, they're all the same."

live and learn. You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium aftermarket support.

Got Stuff?
December 3, 2009, 07:04 PM
Some of my good old ones quit feeding well so I put new AR-15 springs in them. worked quite well!

Even back in the day a lot of mags didn't work for crap. The Mason mags seem to work very well.

1KPerDay
December 3, 2009, 07:10 PM
People that own and shoot the mini 14 tend to be cheap or broke. This is not a segment of the population given to purchasing the best of anything,
hmmmmmmmmm

Gryffydd
December 3, 2009, 07:13 PM
You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium aftermarket support.
Who said anything about premium? Something shouldn't have to be premium to work.

stchman
December 3, 2009, 07:18 PM
To wheelgunslinger.

New Mini-14 rifles cost about $700. So they are not cheap. You act as though they are $50.

I guess you are one of the AR elitist that I run across on the forums.

Boba Fett
December 3, 2009, 07:33 PM
It's simple supply and demand.

People that own and shoot the mini 14 tend to be cheap or broke. This is not a segment of the population given to purchasing the best of anything, so they google their way to the cheapest magazine and buy it saying "ah, they're all the same."

live and learn. You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium aftermarket support.


What!? :cuss:

No offense, but I don't think you have a clue about this.

Sounds like someone who just doesn't like the Mini-14.


*edit*
I will add that I am neither cheap nor broke. Hence the reason I shelled out the $$$ for the Ruger mags. But even if there were after market mags, I tend to prefer factory mags for most of my firearms. AR-15 being the main exception.

Ignition Override
December 3, 2009, 08:48 PM
"Perfectunion" has had constant numerous threads about this for well over a year.
Ruger lost many loyal customers because of their former marketing attitudes. Large flocks of former customers switched to the AK clones, SKS, AR,
G-3s etc and never returned.

Ruger only Began selling 'normal' Mini 14 magazines to the public after the election. They are now also producing/selling a 20-rounder
(built by Ruger or Promag?) mag with the new Mini 30, and for the first time ever.

wally
December 3, 2009, 09:35 PM
You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium aftermarket support

Other than perhaps the 1911 (which is about the simplest mag design possible since its a controlled feed single stack gun) there is no premium aftermarket mag for any gun.

Closest thing is Mec-Gar which OEMs a large percentage of factory mags and sometimes sell under there own name for less. These are the generally best buys.

--wally.

atblis
December 3, 2009, 09:46 PM
HK AR mags could be consider premium. You certainly pay a premium for them. I guess they could be consider not aftermarket though.

skoro
December 3, 2009, 09:49 PM
I have a $20 Pro-Mag twenty round that works perfectly in my Ranch Rifle.

Ignition Override
December 3, 2009, 11:06 PM
My 30-round plastic Promag, made in '08, was 100% reliable in my used Mini 14, although it fit loosely and was only loaded to about ten rds or less; less ammo consumption.

Wheelgunner56
December 3, 2009, 11:34 PM
I have 2 Mini-14s that are 20+ years old. The 20 round Pro-Mags I bought in the past year function perfectly. I did have a couple of problems with their 30 rounders until I backed them off to 28 rounds. I recall a few years back some news footage in NY, where a guy was waving a handgun out an apartment window. The NYPD SRT guy used a Mini-14 to shoot the gun out of his hand from the street below. It works for them it would seem.

jem375
December 3, 2009, 11:53 PM
since when has the mini-14 been cheap?...

Gryffydd
December 4, 2009, 12:28 AM
The NYPD SRT guy used a Mini-14 to shoot the gun out of his hand from the street below. It works for them it would seem.

He must have been trying for a headshot :D
I kid I kid...

Kurt_D
December 4, 2009, 12:32 AM
It's who makes the mags. The same companies that produce crap for the Mini, produce crap for the AR too. The fact these companies can screw up an AK mag should tell you something.

AR quality mags = USGI contractors, Magpul, Lancer, Tango Down, HK; and because of the shear volume of AR mags produced due to demand they are inexpensive; except for the HK and that's b/c we suck and they hate us.

AR mags that are crap = promags, USA mags, and the other usual suspects.

Quality Mini mags = Ruger... and due to volume, or lack of, that's it.

Crap Mini mags = again the usual suspects: promag, USA, etc.

Your only hope for quality mags, besides Ruger, would be to convince somone like Magpul to start up production. Then again b/c of lack of volume you probably wouldn't save over the Ruger price wise.

Toonces
December 4, 2009, 01:06 AM
Geometry is a question of design. Once it is worked out, the manufacturing of a magazine should be an absolute cakewalk for any modern operation to perform well.

If it were that simple, everybody would be doing it.

Besides that fact that it is a Ruger design, part of the reason Ruger mags are so good is that Ruger has (and always has had) some of the best Metallurical engineering in the industry. They know more about processing and heat treat that most other companies, and it shows. Everything is easy when you know how to do it.

I don't know the particulars, but it could be as simple as Ruger knowing exactly how to spec the sheet steel, and everybody else buying something cheap off the shelf. If the companies that copied the mags didn't buy a bunch of Ruger mags and do a full chemical/physical/microstructure analysis of the steel, and then spend the $$$ to get the same stuff, it is much more difficult to get the same results. Half baked reverse engineering combined with crappy raw materials = National, USA, Promag, and other cheap mags.

1KPerDay
December 4, 2009, 02:05 PM
He must have been trying for a headshot
I kid I kid...
haaaaa~! :D

ilbob
December 4, 2009, 02:37 PM
I have done a fair amount of work with sheet metal forming machines. Its not as easy to get the machines to punch the metal into the exact shape it is supposed to be as some seem to think.

You indeed might have 75 cents worth of parts in a magazine, but you might have half a million dollars worth of development time to get it right and a million dollars worth of machines and dies before you sell a single magazine.

Elm Creek Smith
December 6, 2009, 03:14 AM
Walmart in Owasso, OK, has 581-series Ruger Mini 14s for $607.00. I got one for my Christmas rifle. Of course, they don't have ammo or extra magazines for it. Luckily there was a gun show this week.

ECS

weeniewawa
December 6, 2009, 12:22 PM
I have 10+ ramline polymer mags that work awesome in my older Mini 14 Ranch Rifle. I got them cheap from a friend who couldn't get them to work in his newer Mini 14!

I had the same problem with a newish mini-14 back in the early 90's

I could only get Thermold mags to feed and that was after trimming the lips a bit.

I had a friend with an older model who could use any $5 gun show mag and run flawlessly

My gun would not even feed with his factory 20 and 30 round mags

The tip of the bullet would hit well below the feed ramp

I believe Ruger changed the location of the pin in the magwell so as to prevent the use of aftermarket mags.

FRJ
December 6, 2009, 01:32 PM
I think the assault weapon ban may have had a lot to do with the quality of after market hi cap mags. Some people saw the ban coming and decided to make money on it. They manufactured tons of mags that were grandfathered in after the ban and had so many that they are still available. These mags were made fast and cheap to beat the deadline with no thought to quality control. I paid for the leo mags for my mini and suffered no malfunctions now I have purchased more from Ruger since they have started selling them again. No problems with these either. You Can't Get More Than You Pay For. FRJ

CSA 357
December 6, 2009, 07:27 PM
ill be sticking with factory mags, i have 4 ruger 20s the last one was
$30 i wish they would take ar 15 mags , i do like my ss gb!

lopezni
December 7, 2009, 10:28 PM
yeah I was going to recommend promag magazines but someone else did it, personally I would sell the rifle and get a good bolt rifle with better accuracy and no feeding issues

The Lone Haranguer
December 8, 2009, 12:16 AM
Why do aftermarket Mini-14 mags SUCK??!!!
I don't know why, but I've had poor experience with some Triple K 10-rounders (they were what I could get in CA at the time) from Brownells several years ago. Neither would function; the mag would hang too low at the rear, causing the bolt to override the top cartridge and actually bend it in half. Fortunately, Brownells has a generous return policy.

Art Eatman
December 8, 2009, 11:27 AM
What's sorta weird to me is that almost any magazine available at a gunshow back in the 1970s would work just fine. I never had a problem: 20-, 30- and even one 40-round mag. Locked in properly, easily removed; never a feeding problem.

Dimensioning and quality control, I guess...

greyeyezz
December 8, 2009, 12:43 PM
People that own and shoot the mini 14 tend to be cheap or broke. This is not a segment of the population given to purchasing the best of anything, so they google their way to the cheapest magazine and buy it saying "ah, they're all the same."

live and learn. You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium after market support.

What a brilliant post.
Perhaps people prefer the tried and true gas system of the garrand/mini?
I bought several usa brand mags in the late 80's that were actually very good quality, they function fine today. The rush to sling mags out the door before the AWB killed quality.

briansmithwins
December 8, 2009, 12:47 PM
Perhaps people prefer the tried and true gas system of the garrand/mini?

You do realize those two utilize completely different principals? What with the Garand's moving piston and the Mini-14s moving cylinder and all?

I personally prefer the AK/AR gas system...

BSW

cacop
December 8, 2009, 04:51 PM
It's easy to hammer out something that resembles a Mini-14 mag. Or any other mag for that reason. It is hard to get it right. I think some companies just hammer out crap for cheap and there are more than enough suckers to buy them.

Dwrice
December 9, 2009, 05:42 AM
It's simple supply and demand.

People that own and shoot the mini 14 tend to be cheap or broke. This is not a segment of the population given to purchasing the best of anything, so they google their way to the cheapest magazine and buy it saying "ah, they're all the same."

live and learn. You bought a cheap rifle and wonder why there's no premium aftermarket support.

I have to agree with Wheel. The Mini-14 looked cool on the A-Team when I was a kid but I grew up joined the Army then became a cop, learning a little about weapons along the way. I never understood why NYPD ESU was using the Mini-14 almost everyone else is using Ar's or MP5's.

1KPerDay
December 9, 2009, 11:45 AM
Because the A-Team is cool. Duh.

JWF III
December 9, 2009, 03:01 PM
I have 10 or 12 aftermarket mags for my Minis. (Each purchased before Ruger offered theirs to the public.) Over a couple of range sessions I weeded out those that didn't perform to my standard. I purchased AR mag followers that had the longer legs, and modified them to fit the Mini mags. (Modification only required slight trimming on the width of the legs.) They don't hold the bolt open on the last shot, but they function flawlessly otherwise.

I want to get some Ruger followers and give them a try. I just haven't got around to it yet.

A stronger spring may be something else worth trying.

Wyman

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