Berrys 44 mag


PDA






Jaws1
December 3, 2009, 01:54 PM
Hi I'm new to relaoding and looking for some advice.

Recently at a gun show I picked up some supplies for loading my 44 mag (329NG). I purchased 240 grain Berrys plated bullets with Titegroup powder on a recommendation from the seller. He suggested a 9 grain load of the Titegroup for use with the Berrys plated bullets. I see they do not recommend these for use in magnums, not wanting to exceed 1200 FPS. If I'm reading this load right it should net 1219 FPS. Can anybody shed any light on this for me? I have loaded a couple of hundred rounds already. If I tear these apart and reload can I reuse the bullets? Any advice is appreciated.

Jeff

If you enjoyed reading about "Berrys 44 mag" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ReloaderFred
December 3, 2009, 07:59 PM
That loading should be closer to 1,000 fps, so you'll be ok with it. Take some out and shoot them. As long as you didn't crimp too hard and cut the plating, they should shoot just fine. I've loaded Berrys to 1,250 fps and they were accurate, but the same bullet at 1,400 fps tumbled wildly.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Walkalong
December 3, 2009, 08:05 PM
Yep, they will shoot great if you stay at around 1200 FPS or under. I like to taper crimp plated bullets, but they will tolerate a real light roll crimp as well.

Jaws1
December 4, 2009, 07:52 AM
Thanks for the advice. I'm using a Dillion Precision press model 550B.
I have disassembled a handfull to check to see if the plating is cut, happy to report its still in tact. I'm using the Dillion dies as well, is this considered a roll crimp or a taper crimp?
I will take them to the range tomorrow and try them out.

Thanks Jeff

Galil5.56
December 4, 2009, 08:23 AM
Do you have a chronograph? Will be interesting to see the velocity you get if you do considering that charge weight of that propellant and bullet used... IMO, I think it will go a good bit faster than 1000 fps from a 6" revolver, and I would back the charge back to around 7 or so grains next time for a nice plinking load of about 1000 fps.

When I use 6.5 grains of Hodgdon "International" behind a hard cast 240 in 44 mag, my chrono says 914 fps from my 6.5" model 29. Thin plated and cast will behave similarly, and the International I am using has a slower pressure curve than Titegroup, and what I base my believe that you will be pushing the velocity ceiling you want.

Lastly, being new to reloading and deciding to use a very energetic, dense propellant to start out with on a progressive press, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL not to double charge the case!!! Multiple full power charges can be put into that case, and the results could be bomb like, such as this blown .44 mag pic that has been floating around:
http://www.ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/Smith-Wesson-M629-BLOWUP-2.jpg

Jaws1
December 4, 2009, 08:53 AM
I do not have a chronograph. Maybe I should invest in one at a later date?
I will take your advice and back the charge down when using the Titegroup in the future, thanks!
At present I have approximately 250 rounds loaded already. Are you suggesting I should tear them apart and start over?
I agree about the potential for a double charge of any powder, I am new to reloading and inspite of the presses capabilities I load slow. I weighed every charge for the first 100 rounds and then periodically check to see that shes staying consitient. I'm running it one shell at a time to get used to it and take this very seriously. No sense in saving money if I can no longer shoot due to an accident.
The revolver I'm shooting is a model 329NG with a 2.5" barrel.

Thanks,
Jeff

Walkalong
December 4, 2009, 09:01 AM
I see every charge I seat a bullet over. I have a LED light shining down in the case (http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=103420&d=1250373765). I would recommend a bulkier powder for light loads in .44 Mag such as Unique. A double charge of it wil be much easier to see. I am not a Titegroup fan for a couple of reasons. The tiny little charges is one of them. Lots of folks love it though.

Galil5.56
December 4, 2009, 09:10 AM
Jeff,

I think you will love having a chronograph, and I would strongly suggest a ProChrono digital.

The charge you are using is very stout, but dangerous, I don't think so but way more than I would use w/o having "worked it up" myself. Might get some pretty sticky extraction, but that depends on a lot of factors that might not indicate excessive pressure. I can tell you the loads you made will not make shooting that 329 any more fun unless you are a recoil and blast junkie. It is true you can attempt to double charge a case, but some bulkier propellants will spill over to warn even the most careless reloader, while dense propellants will take the double w/o flowing over. Trailboss would be a great choice if data is available, as one of it's specs is to not exceed proof pressures with a nominal weight bullet for the caliber seated correctly with a full case. Good that you are using your 550B as a single stage, and one reason I love mine w/o auto indexing.

Jaws1
December 4, 2009, 10:39 AM
No "recoil or blast junkie" here. This is not my favorite range gun. The intended purpose of this particular piece is strickly for camping and hiking. Therefore I shoot it to keep in practice with it. I prefer my 10mm for fun.

I have purchased a Lyman 49th edition reloading manual with a Hornady manual on order. When I did not see that recipe listed in there I got curiousand that started the questions. My concern was/is the ammunition I have loaded as far as safely shooting it.

ReloaderFred
December 4, 2009, 10:49 AM
I keep my Lyman 48th Edition next to my computer, and my 49th at my loading bench. My 48th Edition shows your load as the starting load for a 240 grain linotype bullet in .44 Magnum, with a velocity of 1,003 fps from a 4" barrel. You won't get anywhere near that with the 2 1/2" barrel. I don't use Titegroup myself, but Lyman indicates that your load is safe to shoot.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Jaws1
December 4, 2009, 10:59 AM
Thanks Fred,

I'll shoot a few rounds off tomorow and let you know how it goes.

Can you educate me on a "linotype" bullet and how that might differ from the others, specifically the plated?

Jeff

ReloaderFred
December 4, 2009, 12:36 PM
Jaws1,

A linotype alloy bullet is very hard, with a Brinnel Hardness of approximately 23, which is very hard when compared to the softer alloys, which normally run anywhere from 8 to 18 BHN. There wasn't any data for your powder, Titegroup, for any jacketed bullets in the Lyman 48th Edition, and I didn't go downstairs to my shop to look in the 49th Edition, or any of my other manuals, of which I have many. The 240 grain linotype bullet was the closest to the bullet you're using, though your bullet will be softer in composition, but with the copper plating over the soft lead core.

My guess is your load will be doing under 1,000 fps from your revolver, though it's probably going to be a handful. My choice would be a different, slower, powder, but I was only addressing what you posted in your original question.

It appears that you've been cautious with these first steps, and that's good. You also seem to be cognizant of the problems you could run into with a fast powder in a large case, so I didn't address that, either.

Hope this helps.

Fred

ants
December 4, 2009, 01:02 PM
Jaws1, welcome to the Forum. You got good equipment and a good attitude, I know you'll have fun reloading for a lifetime.

Taking powder charge recommendation from a guy at a gunshow is risky. In this case he didn't give you bad information, but expecting that he memorized safe data for all the calibers, bullet weights, and powders he sells is expecting too much. As you well know, reloading is only safe when the operator makes wise decisions.


Get yourself some reloading books. Not only will the powder charge data be your guide, but you'll learn a lot more about powder, bullets, brass, primers, procedures, crimp, sizing, seating, and everything else.

Best of luck, friend. I know you'll have fun. Be safe out there.

Galil5.56
December 4, 2009, 01:07 PM
I don't know exactly what barrel Hodgdon/ATI used for their "Cowboy" loads (7.5"?), but they got 970 fps with a 240 grain LSWC powered by 6.2 grains of Titegroup, and this G&A story:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/ammunition/44mag_081005/index.html

says they got 1203 fps from 9.5 grains of Titegroup/240 LSWC from a 4" model 29.

http://img101.photolava.com/2009/12/04/-44-mag-data-qx6tewyc.jpg

I know which data I believe, and continue to believe my initial hunch is correct prior to the OP stating barrel length.

Jaws1
December 4, 2009, 04:27 PM
Interesting Galil5.56
The chart, kind of makes one wonder. Its pulled right from the magazine. Do you know the year of the article?

Walkalong
December 4, 2009, 05:16 PM
As far as varying velocities with those Titegroup loads go, Titegroup is pretty position sensitive in big cases where it does not fill much of the case up, despite its being advertised as "position insensitive". It is not.

AA #2 is the least position sensitive powder I have tried in big cases with light charges, and I have tried a lot of them. If you get enough AA #2 in the case to burn clean, it hardly cares where it is in the case.

6.0 to 6.4 Grs in a .45 Colt case (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=458725) under a 250/255 Gr plated bullet is a light load but gives practically the same velocity with the powder forward as it does with the powder back.

Galil5.56
December 4, 2009, 05:16 PM
Sorry, don't know the date of being published. Interesting to note the big difference between WW231 and HP-38. Hodgdon will tell you they are identical aside from the name/data is identical with exact same pressure and velocity listed, and there is always the chance of a typo (seen this a lot). Could be partly a normal +/- 3% tollerance for the propellant between lots, chrono error, etc... Who knows, perhaps his TG data is not correct, but in my experience it is reasonable.

Again, I am not saying your ammo is dangerous (blow up) from what you have told us, simply that it is stout for not being worked up. Being uncomfortable is not how I would like to feel about ammo I made, and if you would feel better by pulling it, no big deal at all... Keeps bullet makers in business :).

Walkalong
December 4, 2009, 05:26 PM
According to the Hodgdon online data, it should be OK, but the point, and rightly so, is that one should not get load data word of mouth at a gun show or gun shop.

Claude Clay
December 4, 2009, 05:33 PM
titegroup is very good IMHO for hot 9mm, 40 & 45acp.
i use 2400 for 44 mag both lead & jacketed in pistol & rifle.

9gr of it as you have loaded is not a problem--
i hope you like recoil though

warnerwh
December 4, 2009, 06:39 PM
Now that you can reload you can load down to anywhere you'd like. A moderate load is more fun to shoot to me because it takes less of a toll on me. I do this for both my .357 and .44 magnums. I have small quantities of full loads loaded but 95%+ of the time I shoot my moderate loads. Just thought I'd suggest it because I know there are a lot of others who do the same thing. It can make shooting more pleasant.

Jaws1
December 5, 2009, 05:48 PM
I went to the range today and shot off 30 rounds or so, it is a stout load NO question about it.

Claude: "I hope you like recoil" While I'm not a "recoil junkie" This gun came from the factory with a pretty good recoil (weighing in at 29 ozs) but it serves my intended purpose. If its going to be useful I must become proficient with it. After all everything in life is a trade off! :)

Galil5.56: I am looking into that chrono you suggested "ProChrono digital" assuming I do purchase one I will post my results.

The lesson to be learned here is understood, recipes have been tried and tested. No word of mouth from a salesman at a gun show. I was unsure and asked for advice on how to be/stay safe, thanks to all of you I am a little smarter and better informed.

Thanks,
Jeff

ants
December 5, 2009, 07:32 PM
Jeff, I can tell you will stay with the ranks of happy reloaders for many, many years to come. Probably for a lifetime.

Keep track of the number of rounds you reload. You'll be surprised how it adds up. And you'll be a better shooter as you learn about ballistics and how accuracy is developed.

Jaws1
December 7, 2009, 08:55 AM
I can already feel the pull of it sucking me in. :D
In my spare time this weekend I've been reading everything I have available.

Jeff

If you enjoyed reading about "Berrys 44 mag" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!