Probably asked before but let's see what ya'll have to say


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millertyme
December 3, 2009, 05:43 PM
Have any of you ever used or heard of using Red Dot for 9mm loads? I was looking at the burn rate chart on IMR's website and they have Red Dot and Clays listed right next to each other. I saw another one on Vhitavuori's sight and they have Red Dot slightly slower than HP38. A little confusing to me, but that's why I came here to ask.

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rcmodel
December 3, 2009, 06:02 PM
Older Allaint reloading guides used to list Red Dot loads for 9mm in 95 through 147 grain lead & jacketed bullets.

It will work fine.

Don't put too much store in Powder Burn Rate charts.
They are only a very general guide, and cannot be used when chosing one powder over another.

You may get different results / burn rates depending on the caliber, pressure, and case capacity.

rc

EddieNFL
December 3, 2009, 06:10 PM
I've used Red Dot and, I think Green Dot, but it's been a couple decades or more. Used Blue Dot for .357 for a while. Back then, it was Hercules powder, as I recall.

Roccobro
December 3, 2009, 06:14 PM
Have any of you ever used or heard of using Red Dot for 9mm loads?

Yes.

Justin

Walkalong
December 3, 2009, 07:39 PM
It will work. Don't press the high end of load data. Stick with the books.

Deus Machina
December 3, 2009, 07:58 PM
Works great.

I drop 4.1gr of Red Dot under a 125gr round-nose cast from wheel weights. Lubed with LLA, but it's not a TL-style.

Leaves a thin layer of lead (looks like; could just be schmutz) in the barrel of my CZ quickly, but it doesn't seem to build up more or hurt accuracy enough for a shooter of my skill to tell. I'm going to drop to 3.9gr to test, later.

Haven't checked velocity, but it feels just like 124gr factory loads.

Marlin 45 carbine
December 3, 2009, 08:30 PM
as #6 but I haven't had leading at all loading mike's slugs 124gr tc cast. 'mastercastbullets.com' in carbondale, ill. RD burns clean also for cast slugs in .32acp, .380acp, 9mm Mak, .357mag and .45acp.
hotter loads in my .357 will foul some after about 30 shots. maybe insufficent lube.

Starter52
December 3, 2009, 08:50 PM
I've used it also. WW 231 burns cleaner, but Red Dot works in both 9mm and .45 ACP.

Steve C
December 3, 2009, 09:42 PM
Here is the 9mm data from an earlier Alliant on like source.

Galil5.56
December 3, 2009, 10:10 PM
I use 4 grains of Red Dot behind a Lee 125 2R RN for 1074 fps avg from a Beretta M9. Nice and bulky which is good for a beginner loading 9mm, but it's pressure curve is not forgiving, and volumetric metering can be a bit more challenging than ball propellants.

I find in actual use WW231/HP-38's pressure curve is a lot slower than Clays by a wide margin, and slower than the chart would have you believe concerning Red Dot, again in my experience and testing. Red Dot has also worked extremely well in .44 Special, Reduced .44 Mag, and .45 Auto with cast bullets.

millertyme
December 4, 2009, 01:47 AM
Thanks for all the info, guys. I have about 3 lbs left over from a keg that I've been reloading 44 Mags from and was hoping to use it to start loading plinkers for my 9mm, especially with the current powder situation. I can get 125gr LRN prjectiles locally almost any time and for a decent price and someone usually has slightly over priced small primers (re-sales) on backpage. My P95's springs are still a little still so max loads are what I'll be working up to. I noticed it says to use 4.5gr for the 125gr LRN's. I would love to use HP38, but finding it around here has proven a bit difficult. How about Alliant 2400? anyone know of any loadings for that?

rcmodel
December 5, 2009, 01:32 PM
2400 is a Magnum revolver powder.
It will simply not work in 9mm.

Not enough case capacity for the charge it would take to make enough pressure to work.

rc

helg
December 5, 2009, 02:09 PM
Powder burning speed is somewhat ambiguous characteristic. Powder burning occurs on surface of its pieces, and the surface area changes over time. For spherical powders the surface area is diminishing with the burning, as radus of the burning balls goes down. For flake powders, which have pieces like washers, the diminishing is much less than for spherical. Dynamics of the powder burning is described in the "vivacity curve", which basically tells what percentage of the powder is burned over a given time under controlled conditions.

Considering the above, last pieces of a spherical powder burn slowly than of a flake powder. If you rank powders by speed when they burn completely, flake powders go higher in the rate. If you rank them by speed when, say, 90% of the given powder burns under the same controlled conditions, then spherical powders will go higher in the list.

The two powders have different shapes of the vivacity curves. You may see from the above how these two may be ranked differently in rate charts.

Back to practical part of your question. I also use Red Dot fro 9mm loads, as many others in this thread. It burns clean. The measuring, however, in tiny 9mm dozes is a bit challenging. I have made a mod to my disk measure to have a reliable drop under 3 grains. Here (http://forums.loadmastervideos.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=490) is the picture.

millertyme
December 6, 2009, 10:57 PM
I was referencing the dicrepancies listed on the charts I found online, not trying to gauge how fast one powder burned compared to another. I had noticed one list showed Red Dot burning faster than powder x on one list and slower than powder x on another. Fortunately there are people on this site with access to manuals that I haven't come across. Thanks for all the help. I'll keep the 2400 handy for my 44 Mag. I had simply come across a few pounds of Red Dot and my manuals don't have it listed for 9mm reloading and I have more than I could load for my 44 in several years shooting more than just often (which I don't really do with that pistol). As for the weight of the charges, I think I'll go with what Steve C posted from his older manual and a charge of 4.5-4.6 grains for 115-125gr loads. The recoil spring in my P95 is still a bit tight and lighter loads (specifically 125gr LRN's from UltraMax) have been problematic, mostly FTE's. No, I'm not limp-wristing it. I'm a 31 year old steelworker. I got a grip on things.

Marlin 45 carbine
December 6, 2009, 11:09 PM
to avoid any confusion and difficulty when loading I think you should send that RD to me so's you won't have to worry about that pesky stuff.:)

millertyme
December 9, 2009, 12:36 AM
You know, Marlin, It it weren't for the fact that I found a "perfect" plinking load for my 44Mag I might have been willing to part with it.

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