Should a high end 1911 feed hollowpoints...


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greyeyezz
December 4, 2009, 02:39 PM
With absolute reliability. By high end I mean $1000 range.
I know a 1911 was designed to shoot ball but we are talking basically custom .45 so throw that out right now.

1) Yes, absolutely.
2) No, not without modification.

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texas bulldog
December 4, 2009, 02:48 PM
while i'm far from the 1911 expert on this forum, i think the first thing here is that $1000 is not high-end or "custom" for a 1911. for instance, my dan wesson CBOB came in just under that. while it's very nice, it's not custom in the vein of a les bear, wilson, or nighthawk.

$1000 is ballpark for DW, colt, springfield, and kimber (depending on model, of course). true custom is at least a couple hundred more than that, if not a grand or two more.


to answer the actual question, YES a $1000 1911 should feed hollowpoints reliably. mine does, and i would certainly not keep it if it didn't.

$0.02

Wildyams
December 4, 2009, 02:50 PM
Nothing is an absolute, yes, it should. However, don't trust it until it has been thoroughly tested and proves itself.

jfdavis58
December 4, 2009, 02:58 PM
No vote:

How is the gun being marketed; to what audience? $1000.00 dollars is actually near the bottom of the price range for brand named 1911's coming from the makers custom shop with 'typical' upgrades: trigger, barrel, finish. Such guns are usually targeted to the self defense market and as such would presumably feed hollow-pointed ammunition with some success.

The 100% reliability myth circulating the internet and retail gun outlets is foolish hype. By their nature as creations of imperfect men and women in an imperfect (or at least less then totally understood) universe, mechanical devices--including firearms--cannot be perfect. What keeps the self defense shooter alive is a combination of factors: skill, training, equipment, his or her ability to think clearly and act decisively in stressful situations and plain old luck.

To be perfectly succinct: the person who depends solely upon a so called 100% reliable firearm is easy pickings for most predators and a pure sucker for any gun salesman.

Walkalong
December 4, 2009, 03:03 PM
Yes absolutely. Any properly made cheap one should. Period.

EddieNFL
December 4, 2009, 03:36 PM
I agree with John's post. Any firearm will eventually fail. The more complicated, the sooner it happens. I have 1911s that have never failed in tens of thousands of rounds, excluding ammo or mag failures...but those are still failures. Eventually, the gun itself will fail. Any properly built 1911 should reliably feed modern HPs (designed for autos). I once read a article by a well know 1911 maker that said it was easier to get HPs to feed in a 1911 than hardball.

And to piggyback on John's mention of, "plain old luck," there is a cliche that goes something like, "You can do everything right and still get killed."

tipoc
December 4, 2009, 03:58 PM
I know a 1911 was designed to shoot ball but we are talking basically custom .45 so throw that out right now.

I'm not sure what this sentence means. Does it mean to ignore ("throw out") any custom or semi custom 1911s? I just don't understand the sentence.

But any way...any 1911 made in the last decade or two will reliably feed JHP ammo. "high end" or low end makes no difference. That pretty much is true. BUT there are a good many companies that make 1911s and some of them have come up with variations that don't work as well as they should. So some do not work as well with some ammo as likely they should.

All a 1911 needs to feed jhp ammo reliably is a properly throated barrel and a good ramp, polished ramp is a plus, and good mags. Some manufacturers have had a hard time with this. But most of the majors get it right.

tipoc

MT GUNNY
December 4, 2009, 04:17 PM
Quote: Yes absolutely. Any properly made cheap one should. Period.

+1. I have a $750 S&W 1911 that has functioned with all sorts of ammo from store bought to hand loads.

JTQ
December 4, 2009, 05:01 PM
Yes. Even the low cost models will probably feed hollow points with nothing more than a magazine replacement (if you even need to do that). Colt has even put a dimple on their barrels at the chamber mouth to assist in the feeding of "odd" shaped bullets.

To me, the "sweet spot" in production 1911's is in the $800 - $1,000 range. You should be able to get just about any feature you want from most of the major manufacturers in that price range. More money will generally get you better parts or features.

Semi-custom is in the $2,000 range.

You will most likely find a full custom in the $4,000 - $5,000 range. Expect to wait a year or more for one of those as the waiting list is usually pretty long. For that price you will get quality parts put together they way you want.

AK103K
December 4, 2009, 05:17 PM
In this day and age, why dont ALL the 1911's feed them, even the bargain basement models?

Then again, with all the advances in technology and manufacturing techniques, why dont ALL 1911's work reliably out of the box?

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2009, 05:23 PM
any $1k 1911 should feed JHP, but that certainly is anywhere near the high end of production 1911s

it would think that price range is just getting into the mid-range prices

Jimfern
December 4, 2009, 05:29 PM
I believe most, if not all, modern 1911s will feed them. My inexpensive Norinco 1911 feeds them as well as my other 1911s.

rondog
December 4, 2009, 05:44 PM
All of my sub-$400 RIA 1911's will eat anything. They're real pigs about ammo. Same with both my $900 Colts. So the pricey ones should eat anything too, at least I'd expect them to.

Gunfighter123
December 4, 2009, 06:03 PM
YES --- a "high end" 1911 should feed ANY TYPE of bullet sold ---- any of my custom 1911s will !!!!

EddieNFL
December 4, 2009, 06:09 PM
Then again, with all the advances in technology and manufacturing techniques, why dont ALL 1911's work reliably out of the box?

Why does Chevy have a warranty department?

Walkalong
December 4, 2009, 06:24 PM
Poor quality control of course, which is the only reason some 1911's don't work right as well. The only reason.

Sheepdog1968
December 4, 2009, 06:31 PM
Typically the self defense ammo we use is costly so we typicall don't shoot much of it. I always worry about the home defense ammo not working properly no matter what type of ammo and what specific firearm. The only way I can feel certain is to run at least 300 rounds of the specific ammo I want to use through my firearm at various points when the firearm is clean, dirty (way beyond what I would normally keep it at), over-luber, under lubed with the specific magazines I keep in it at home. I also shoot it in a number of contortions including excessive limp wristing. Some might go so far as to say this is paranoid. However, IMO it's the only way to ensure it will work reliably. As such, I am disinclined to change what I keep at home in terms of long arms and pistols for self defense (vs. other things I own as social plinking or for hunting) when the supposed newer and better products hit the market.

Oldnoob
December 4, 2009, 06:34 PM
Any modern pistol cost more than $350 should fire hollow point reliably. I would not ask any 1911 GI to do the same for they weren't meant to shoot other than ball ammo.

Also $1000 is just getting into mid-end price range for 1911. Some will claim $1k still in low end price range for 1911. (Entry level->Low-end->Mid-end->High-end->Semi-custom->Fully custom. )

Sheepdog1968
December 4, 2009, 06:36 PM
I should also add, based on my experience and full time instructors who see lots of bullets go down range each year, often the high end 1911s are the most unreliable. The reason for this is that they are often made with much tighter tollerances to shoot tighter groups. As such, they are more prone to malfunctions. If I were to use a 1911 for home defense, I would want one that rattles when shaken so I know the tollerances are more appropiate for self-defense. All my two cents.

9mmepiphany
December 4, 2009, 06:46 PM
Any modern pistol cost more than $350 should fire hollow point reliably. I would not ask any 1911 GI to do the same

i wouldn't ask any $350 1911 to do the same either...some might, but i wouldn't bet my life on it.

I should also add, based on my experience and full time instructors who see lots of bullets go down range each year, often the high end 1911s are the most unreliable. The reason for this is that they are often made with much tighter tollerances to shoot tighter groups. As such, they are more prone to malfunctions. If I were to use a 1911 for home defense, I would want one that rattles when shaken so I know the tollerances are more appropiate for self-defense. All my two cents.

that might be true of "target guns", but a well put together combat/duty 1911 will be both tight and reliable after "break in"...they are different animals, built to different standards

emerson
December 4, 2009, 07:30 PM
Yes it should. That being said, become familiar with the tap, rack, bang drill.

The Lone Haranguer
December 4, 2009, 07:43 PM
For any price I expect it to cycle any reasonable ammunition I feed it.

ugaarguy
December 4, 2009, 07:53 PM
First, $1000 isn't high end for a 1911.

Second, there are many custom 1911s set up strictly for target shooting, and the guns & mags are tuned to feed Semi-Wadcutter rounds with total reliability. Throw JHP or ball ammo into some wadcutter 1911s, and you can watch them choke.

Third, the idea that a real M1911 will only feed ball, because that's all that was around when it was designed, is an internet myth that just won't die. Manufacturers who make out of spec pistols that look like GI M1911s use that myth as an excuse for why their pistols built with poor QC will only feed ball ammo. A real USGI M1911, that's in spec, with real USGI 7rd mags will feed anything. A custom or high end production 1911 that's spec'd or marketed as a defensive pistol should do the same. If it doesn't you should insist that the smith or manufacturer who made it fix it so it does.

AK103K
December 4, 2009, 08:09 PM
Third, the idea that a real M1911 will only feed ball, because that's all that was around when it was designed, is an internet myth that just won't die.

A real USGI M1911, that's in spec, with real USGI 7rd mags will feed anything.

I have owned a few Colt and GI guns that would like you to explain that to them.

schmeky
December 4, 2009, 09:35 PM
Amazing to me; John Browning designed the 1911 to shoot ball ammo. A 230 FMJ slug traveling at 850 fps is a lot more reliable than a HP stuck on a feed ramp.

If you want to shoot HP's with reliability, get a Sig, Glock, M&P, etc. They were designed from the get go to do this.

MTS840
December 4, 2009, 09:55 PM
Should a high end 1911 feed hollowpoints...

I wouldn't drop a grand on a pistol to find out that it's not as reliable as a $500 Glock.

I don't care about the history of the design or who designed it. That doesn't win gunfights. If it chokes when I need it, it may get me killed.

I expect a gun to work right out of the box as designed, with no modifications, provided I follow the instructions in the owner's manual. Simple as that.

Any gun sold to the public and marketed as a weapon for self defense should be able to feed a wide variety of self defense ammunition, in my opinion. Period.

orrwdd
December 4, 2009, 10:00 PM
Schmeky,

That is my point exactly. The reason the big slow 45 ACP was adopted by the US military was because it provided a sufficient punch to put a man down without needing high velocity.

So why go to lighter HP bullets that need more velocity to maybe function properly????

Bill

soloban
December 4, 2009, 10:03 PM
Assuming you have a good magazine, yes. They should be able to shoot JHPs.

f4t9r
December 4, 2009, 10:07 PM
Yes it should !!

NWCP
December 4, 2009, 11:04 PM
For the money some shooters spend on 1911s they should shoot anything they're fed and then some. They should also cook, clean house and do the laundry for what some smiths are getting for their product.

w_houle
December 4, 2009, 11:14 PM
If you spend enough money: All you have to do is cover the gun with powder, lead shavings, and brass shavings and it will make the bullets all by itself:neener:
Seriously? I would expect a HIGH END 1911 to reliably feed wadcutters!
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=148575418

mljdeckard
December 5, 2009, 12:58 AM
Yes it should. That doesn't mean I won't check it first.

Here's the thing about factory guns. They are made to all be the SAME. Hand-built guns are that; custom fitted. Better worse, whatever, I lean towards consistency.

Of course I'm the one who always sneers at custom guns. I shot a Nighthawk at a rental range, because I wanted to know what a $5 milkshake tastes like. For the life of me, I have no idea what it is you got for more then three times what I paid for my Kimber.

Leaky Waders
December 5, 2009, 01:21 AM
I was reading Ed Brown's site today and he had some info concerning what kind of bullets to use. Basically...if I understood correctly, he tuned his pistols to specific bullets. The shooter should see the spent cases fly in a certain pattern. If the cases weren't flying in that pattern then the pistol would need adjusted or something.

So it seems to me, (if Mr Brown's website is correct) that people who have problems with jhp and custom 1911's, may not have a bullet geometry problem per se, but more of a velocity/recoil problem with loads lighter thatn 230 grains. I'm no expert. Maybe 1911Tuner will show up and clarify things.

Gunfighter123
December 5, 2009, 01:23 AM
Amazing to me; John Browning designed the 1911 to shoot ball ammo. A 230 FMJ slug traveling at 850 fps is a lot more reliable than a HP stuck on a feed ramp.

Yes , the fact is that the 1911 WAS INTENDED to use ball type ammo -- BUT -- if there HAD BEEN hollow points in general use at that time , Mr. Browning would have made sure his "Greatest" firearm would have worked with them.

Kingofthehill
December 5, 2009, 10:42 AM
I have Many Many MANY JHP's through my Springfield Loaded and its never had a problem. My DW has had 1 or 2 not load properly but its only attempted maybe 100? so thats not too great of a track record.

IMO they should all feed...

JOe

EddieNFL
December 5, 2009, 10:53 AM
I would expect a HIGH END 1911 to reliably feed wadcutters!

I've never tried wadcutters, but even my inexpensive models (Colts and Kimbers) will reliably feed semi-wadcutters.

EddieNFL
December 5, 2009, 11:00 AM
Poor quality control of course, which is the only reason some 1911's don't work right as well. The only reason.
I keep telling yankees not everyone in the south is dumb.

QC is Kimber's Achilles' heel. Sad, because they could be THE name in production 1911s. Unfortunately, bowing to the bottom line perpetuates the "unreliable" myth.

tipoc
December 5, 2009, 12:21 PM
The question is a bit of a set up. It implies that mid range 1911s don't feed hollowpoints. Fact is they do.

tipoc

EddieNFL
December 5, 2009, 12:48 PM
The question is a bit of a set up. It implies that mid range 1911s don't feed hollowpoints. Fact is they do.

tipoc
I agree, but the price is mid-range. Dollar figure aside, a properly built 1911 should feed anything designed for autos.

tipoc
December 5, 2009, 01:34 PM
Dollar figure aside, a properly built 1911 should feed anything designed for autos.

I agree. Properly built 1911s currently being manufactured do feed JHPs.

tipoc

tipoc
December 5, 2009, 01:40 PM
Should a Springfield XD feed hollowpoints?



tipoc

Browns Fan
December 5, 2009, 03:52 PM
Yes. ALL guns SHOULD feed whatever load in its respective caliber.

However. Having said that, reality and the cynic (spl?) within me says different.

JTQ
December 5, 2009, 03:57 PM
Should a high end Glock feed unjacketed bullets?

With absolute reliability. By high end I mean $550 range. :rolleyes:

RSVP2RIP
December 5, 2009, 04:12 PM
I'd say we're a long way from the original Borwning designed 1911. His didn't even have a thumb saftey. The new ones are designed to feed HP ammo if it has what has been called a "Throat and Pollish", or anything similar to it. I can't think of any current factory guns that still have a round magazine follower and a barrel with a narrow feed ramp slot, save the Colt 1911 WWI remake, but I have not seen that one in person so I'm not sure. Anything that is not labled as "Target" should be able to shoot HP's. If you get a $1K bullseye gun, whay are you worried about HP's anyways?

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