[fastbolt]

Here's a link which briefly mentions an interesting ammunition development for those of us that carry short-barreled revolvers.

http://64.177.53.248/ubb/Forum78/HTML/000549.html

[Jim March]

Oh HELL YES. Somebody is finally thinking about a "snub-tuned load".

:cool:

[George Hill]

Nice.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=594181

[JShirley]

That's just wrong, George.

Why would anyone carry a .38? :neener:

(Wonders what the velocity from the 2" .357 in pocket is.)

[fastbolt]

It does sound interesting, doesn't it?

If it pans out, we might finally have an "effective" loading for snub guns across the board ... steel framed, steel & aluminum, and the Ti & Sc/Ti guns ... at least those rated for +P ammunition.

Perceived recoil might still be an issue for some folks, since it's apparently a +P loading. Although, wouldn't it be nice to finally have an ammunition choice that gave those of us who preferred .38 over .357, in the little guns, a better chance at improved "performance"?

Also, those folks that owned different models of .38 snub guns, from steel to aluminum to ultra lightweight models, might finally discover a load that functioned reliably AND was designed to perform well in all of them.

It might even allow some of the .357-chambered J-frame owners an opportunity to decide whether their favorite full-house or medium powered magnum loading was always "preferable" to this new load. It never hurts to have another choice, as long as it's a viable choice, "performance-wise".

Sure, I CAN shoot my Quad-Ported Ruger SP-101 DAO .357 as fast as I can cycle the trigger, using full power 125gr ammunition ... and do it accurately ... but its weight causes it to remain in the safe, more often than not, while the 642 ends up in my pocket.

I'll post anything else I come across ...

[Andrew Wyatt]

methinks the 158 grain +P lswchp is stilla better round, giving up only 50 or so fps to this.

[Jim March]

I grant you, it'll still be a tough call but, a good deep-punch type of JHP [i]tuned for snubs[/] may finally unseat the ol' warhorse.

[bpisler]

The answer has been here all along,blackhills 125+P golddot loaded to 1070fps from a 4" barrel.I was able to fire a couple thru a choro and got 955fps and 962fps from my 2" M 15 smith.The best part is they cost 18.00,box of 50.

[fastbolt]

The answer has been here all along,blackhills 125+P golddot loaded to 1070fps from a 4" barrel.I was able to fire a couple thru a choro and got 955fps and 962fps from my 2" M 15 smith.

I agree there's certainly other ammunition out there that might offer decent performance in short barreled revovlers. It's just that there's a couple of things to consider.

First ... sometimes simply increasing the velocity of a particular bullet might not offer the optimal performance desired. If Speer has developed a slightly heavier 135gr Gold Dot bullet for this project, instead of simply using their existing 125gr bullet loaded to a faster velocity, there's probably a reason.

It would certainly be "simpler" for them to offer a slightly faster version of their existing 125gr +P Gold Dot load, or produce a +P+ version for NYPD and other L/E purchasers. Instead, they've apparently designed a new bullet ... and fine tuned the powder charge ... all intended to produce more desirable results in snub nose guns.

Look at how Winchester loads their "standard" 115gr JHP in both their Personal Protection and Ranger lines. In the former line it's loaded to 1170fps, and in the L/E +P+ version it's loaded to 1335fps. The +P+ version is a bit rougher on pistols, long term, but it's also exhibited "good" results over the years. On the other hand, Winchester developed and fine-tuned the 127gr T-Series bullet, which is only 12gr heavier than the standard 115gr JHP, but it's a completely different design, and it's pretty much taken the lead in "performance" ... as has the T-Series 147gr load compared to the original, standard 147gr OSM bullet, which is still used in their Personal Protection & Subsonic/Duty ammunition.

Secondly, some folks, like myself, may only be able to carry "authorized" ammunition in our secondary and off-duty weapons. Depending on the agency's policies this might prevent the use of some of the other commercial ammunition, especially ammunition produced by some of the smaller ammunition companies that use other manufacturer's components, such as bullets. In my case, only factory ammunition produced by the "major" manufacturers is approved.

Personally, I'm glad the info on that other link indicates the new load is apparently only a +P pressure load, as I'm hopeful this means it'll be released for both L/E AND civilian sales ... which probably wouldn't be the case if they simply boosted the velocity of their 125gr bullet to +P+ pressures. Also, hopefully that means they wanted to develop a load that would be safe to use in the lightweight guns rated for +P, and not just the all-steel and the latest ultra lightweight Sc/Ti guns. I like my "regular" aluminum & stainless steel 642-1 ... although I've been considering adding a Sc/Ti model, and perhaps one of the new .357 chambered 649's, to my battery before I retire in the next couple of years. ;)

I'm hoping the new, heavier Gold Dot bullet means they've been able to "tweak" the performance characteristics so it doesn't produce "magnum-level" perceived recoil and muzzle blast, too. There's a distinct difference, to me, when shooting +P and .357 Magnum in a Sc/Ti gun rated for both.

As far as the venerable 158gr LSWCHP/LHP +P goes ... that's generally been my preferred load for about as long as I've been carrying a J-frame. We still recommend it to our folks that carry short barreled revolvers, as long as their guns are rated for it ;), although we obviously don't recommend lead bullets in the latest ultra lightweight guns, which require jacketed bullets. That's one of the reasons I went with the 642 when I upgraded from my older 649 & 36, instead of one of the then-new Ti models, so I could continue to use the lead LHP +P loads.

Even Winchester's own factory testing, however, indicates this bullet ... fired out of a 2" barreled M60 ... generally won't expand beyond its .36 diameter in the Heavy Clothing & 4-Layer Denim tests. It expands to an average .48 in the Bare Gelatin tests, and it's certainly acquired a documented success rate in shooting reports over the years, especially when fired out of 3-4" barreled guns ... but wouldn't it be nice to have a new bullet that exceeds the "performance" of the LHP +P in the ballistics testing?

Like Jim March said, it's about time one of the major manufacturers started thinking about a "snub-tuned load".