Remington 700 5R that much more accurate than Remington 700 SPS out of the box?


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andrewshogun
December 9, 2009, 02:50 AM
The Remington 700 SPS in .308 would set me back about $600. The 5R goes for about $1100 where I am due to high demand. For ones who have owned both, how much of an accuracy difference have you experienced out of the box between the two rifles with similar rigs, shooting at similar distances? Trying to determine if the $500 premium is worth it. Primary application will be precision target bench shooting. All feedback appreciated. Thanks.

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gearheadpyro
December 9, 2009, 08:05 AM
I own what was an SPS Varmint, but have changed many of the components out. I don't own the 5r but have seen many and shot a few at the local range.

It could be that I have the SPS set up for me and the 5r's weren't, but as far as shooting goes mine shot the same to better. The difference was in cleaning. The 5r's don't foul nearly as much, and mine fouls pretty heavy.

My SPS with the right load and good technique is capable of .3" groups or better at 100yards. It's not quite benchrest quality, but bear in mind that's prone off of a harris bipod.

Brimic
December 9, 2009, 08:28 AM
I wouldn't pay a $500 premium for a Remington barrel.
Buy the standard barreled rifle, and have it rebarreled with a Mike Rock or Obermeyer 5R barrel and you'll be worlds ahead for about the same price.

farscott
December 9, 2009, 08:42 AM
To me, the other pluses for the 5R are the stock and the X-Mark Pro trigger on the 5R. I like the HS Precision stock on my 5R much better than the stock on the SPS. Between the stock change, the trigger that cannot cause the rifle to fire upon closing the bolt, and the barrel upgrade, it was worth the $400 difference for me.

The other interesting thing is the twist rate differences. The 5R is supposed to have a 1:11.25" twist, and the SPS in .308 a 1:10" twist. Why the difference I do not know.

natman
December 9, 2009, 09:30 AM
Could someone please enlighten me as to exactly what a "700 5R" is? I can't find it on Remington's website or in the 2008 or 2009 catalogs. Thanks.

R.W.Dale
December 9, 2009, 09:33 AM
Me personaly If accuracy is most important I'd take a long hard look at the savage F class or LRPV over the 5r

Pat4x4
December 9, 2009, 10:17 AM
My SPS tactical out shoots my friends 5r with federal GMM 168's.. Every gun likes is own ammo though.. But the xmark my sps tactical is absolutely wonderful and I even like the hogue stock..

Gordon
December 9, 2009, 12:19 PM
I have an SPS "Tactical" with the Houge stock on which I put a 3.5-10x Mark IV scope. I have carefully broken in the barrel and it shoots 1/2" groups with Federal 168 match.
I have a 5r which I pulled off the MKIV scopein it's Badger Mounts to put on the SPS and put on a NightForce 3-14x50 (wonderful piece of glass BTW) and it gets (got) 1/3" or less groups with the Fed Match ammo. I think the fact the 5R is a much bigger/heavier rig has a lot to do with it and yes I like the HS stock!

gearheadpyro
December 9, 2009, 08:57 PM
Farscott:

My SPS came with the x-mark pro trigger. It's decent, but I swapped out to a jewell and won't be going back.

Natman:

The Remington 700 5r is a very limited production rifle. They use overrun 5r barrels from the m24 sniper system on a standard remington 700 action. The 5r describes the type of rifling in the barrel, it has an angled cut edge on the 5 lands. This barrel is well known for having more accuracy potential, longer lifespan, and less fouling. They don't tend to advertise this gun because they want to sell the m24's, but their is almost always a waiting list on the 700 5R.

Brimmic:

Neither would I. That's why I went with the SPS Varmint. I got to shoot the gun and build my skill without eating up a high dollar barrel first, and now I'm about ready to send the gun out for my new barrel/blueprinting/whatever else strikes my fancy.

Pat4x4
December 9, 2009, 09:32 PM
I have put many many different triggers in many different guns.. And my Xmark is one of the best I have ever owned.. It breaks like glass and has zero creep all while being smooth as silk... I adjusted it down as low as it would go and it got me down to just a hair under 2 lbs.. I have heard mixed reviews on the trigger but the one I have is FABULOUS

And as far as a waiting list on the 5r, Well don't tell all the folks on gunbroker selling them..

gearheadpyro
December 9, 2009, 09:42 PM
The X-mark does have a clean break, I'll give it that. I just didn't much care for mine all that much. I also adjusted mine pretty light but still I didn't care for it.

Maybe it was just the gun store I was at said their is a waiting list on the 5r's. He said he got about 2 a year and he had several people lined up for them already. I could have sworn he said the waiting list was from remington though. Could be wrong, wouldn't be the first time and won't be the last.

Pat4x4
December 9, 2009, 10:00 PM
Being Wrong, Lord knows I have been too..lol

I want to shoot a few more X-marks and see if mine is the only one that is so nice.. Like you I have heard of other who weren't that impressed.. Sometimes I think folks aren't happy unless they spend more money on something..

tommyintx
December 10, 2009, 04:19 AM
i had never heard of the 5r's until today. i want one now. i have the 20"heavy barrel 308 SPS and love it to death. the particular hogue i got was less than spectacular.. but the trigger is amazing and after breaking in the barrel with old LC 173 grainers i had laying around i was shooting 1/4 and smaller groups with 150's and 168's. mine particularly likes the 150's though.

farscott
December 10, 2009, 07:39 AM
My SPS came with the x-mark pro trigger. It's decent, but I swapped out to a jewell and won't be going back.That is very cool. When I bought my 5R in October last year, the SPS I compared it to came with the older 700 trigger.

jbech123
December 10, 2009, 02:58 PM
The other interesting thing is the twist rate differences. The 5R is supposed to have a 1:11.25" twist, and the SPS in .308 a 1:10" twist. Why the difference I do not know.
The reason for the 11.25" twist is to be optimum for 175gr bullets.

Uncle Mike
December 10, 2009, 04:18 PM
Oh yes, the Russian designed 5R rifling. Conceived by our ruisky friends across the globe and cabbaged onto by some of our firearm manufacturers as the 'ultimate' barrel rifling configuration.

Nonsense! In another way, if it were so good, cutting edge and oozed magic why don't all the bench guys, the guys that are making little, tinny tiny 5 shot groups as far away as the next zip code, and ALL the specialty sniper groups in the modern world, use it?

It sells rifles...and IF that particular rifle is being used by the military machine then, oh my, the sniper boys are using it, it HAS to be the best out there...right? Wrong!

There is nothing wrong or bad about 5R rifling, it is nothing special, other than the hype of the angle of the lands, less fouling, which is why the ruiskys designed it in the first place, not to enhance accuracy.

A quick call to the various top end barrel manufacturers will reveal the truth about 5R...

In today's world, if it made a difference that would mean large returns, or in other words, you would sell a butt load of them...so why don't we see more 5R out there....

It is less forgiving to produce, and has no appreciable advantage!

Those 700 5R's have been descent, but not outstanding as the price would suggest, not a bad rifle, but....

rundm
December 10, 2009, 10:15 PM
Ok, I have/had both of them up until 3 weeks ago. The 5r is now in possession of one of my buddies but still in the AI stock.
Benefits: 5r very easy to clean and stainless steel. If you like ss. Much smoother than the sps. This is not even arguable by others. Accuracy in the hs stock was good but in the AI stock it is exceptional. We were at the range yesterday and it shot 3/4in groups at 200 and just slightly more at 300. You can get a little better velocity on the 5r because of the length of barrel. Better hs stock is also a plus. You will get your monies worth with the 5r. The sps-t is also a good gun. It will still shoot even with the hogue stock but does better consistantly with hs or other. I like 20in barrels better than the longer barrels, so I like my sps-t just fine. I changed out the stock on my sps-t for the hs on the 5r in the hopes that it would group more consistantly than before. It shoots well but still throws a flier here and there. When it was in the ai stock it did not do this so it leads me to believe that I must still bed the hs stock. When the sps-t was in the ai stock it would shoot just as well as the 5r. Don't get me wrong, the gun can and will shoot. I shot several groups yesterday that were in 1/2 range but would also get a couple of groups that would have a flier. I also chronoed the loads and with 168gr a max's I was able to get to 2650. 175's were around 2550. I was able to get 2750 with 155gr lapua scenars. I waited a long time to get the 5r but was trying to make it look like an ai. When my buddy said he would give me a great price for it after seeing it shoot, I jumped on it in order to purchase an ai which I took delivery of 3wks ago. Now I really liked my Rem's but I love my AI. By the way, those speeds above are after I cut the barrel on the sps down to 18.5in and put a brake on it. So, don't be worried about having a short barrel and people telling you that you can't make long distance shots with them. I hated having to sell the 5r to get the AI but I really dig the AI. I did keep the sps-t because it still shoots lights out and it will shoot better once the stock is bedded. Hope this helps.

johnmcl
December 11, 2009, 12:11 PM
Andrew,

You're really asking a good Return on Investment, or ROI, question. If you discovered across a large sample size that the 5R was 3/4 of an MOA more accurate than the SPS, the question is then whether the 1.5 variance at 200 yards is worth the $500.

Once that decision is made, if the difference was 1/2 of an MOA would the answer be different?

I had the same decision as you a year ago. I went with the 5R (although the price differential was not as large as yours). The rifling technology was appealing as was the relative uniqueness. There aren't many 5Rs on my range. There's a cool factor there. However, I was most attracted by the free floated barrel and the large palm swells which were missing on the SPS. I thought those qualities would tend towards a more accurate rifle.

I'm sure you know this, but your choice of optics will drive your accuracy also.

Let us know what you decide,

Pat4x4
December 11, 2009, 11:50 PM
You say it is better MOA wise.. My first hand experience says it is not. As well as Sniper centrals.. I think a lot of people have to say that to justify their purchase.. It is a fine rifle for sure.. But every SPS tactical is on par if not a tiny bit better in the accuracy department.

Pat4x4
December 11, 2009, 11:55 PM
here are a couple good descriptive reviews by very knowledgeable people..

http://www.snipercentral.com/milspec5r.phtml

http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm

johnmcl
December 12, 2009, 10:23 AM
Pat,

You miss my point.

I'm not asserting that the rifle is more accurate. I am asking a theoretical question to Andrew on the break even point for a ROI analysis. I'm always interested in whether a lot of money for a little improvement is worth it.

Roger that on some defending their rifle purchases. Don't ever call someone's baby ugly. :)

Pat4x4
December 12, 2009, 01:26 PM
Late night, missed you point.. I would gladly own both:p ugly or not..lol

Geno
December 13, 2009, 01:59 PM
John said:

Roger that on some defending their rifle purchases. Don't ever call someone's baby ugly.

Well, John that confirms for me that A) you are a gentleman, or B) you still have never seen a baby picture of my older brother...and HE was the purdy brother. :D Okay, serious time...I hate serious time. Seriously!

I own a 700 SPS Varmint in .223 Rem and a 700 SPS Tactical in .308 Win. Both are very accurate, and print consist groups, even from a clean barrel. As I broke them in, I polished the barrel with Lead Out clothes. The best group I have shot at 100 yards, off the bench, using a bi-pod and sand bags is 0.182 for the .223 and 0.250 for the .308. I am far less consistent than these two rifles. I far and away prefer the Hogue stock on the Tactical, and I actually like the shorter barrel.

I have never owned the R5, and probably would not have purchased it even if I had been aware that it existed, simply because I always seek the "point-of-rationality" (getting the most for the least). As John hints, one can pay exponentially more for the additional 100ths of an inch. Since I punch paper and varmints, for me personally, it would not be necessary for any additional accuracy potential.

jbech123
December 14, 2009, 05:23 PM
I have never owned the R5, and probably would not have purchased it even if I had been aware that it existed, simply because I always seek the "point-of-rationality" (getting the most for the least). As John hints, one can pay exponentially more for the additional 100ths of an inch. Since I punch paper and varmints, for me personally, it would not be necessary for any additional accuracy potential.

I agree both are accurate enough that individual guns could push the advantage either way. There is no data to show on the whole that the 5R's are more accurate. That said, saying they shoot the same therefore the price increase is not worth it is not comparing apples to apples exactly. Granted accuracy is a key component, esp. with a tactical/varmint rifle. However some key things the 5R has that the sps line doesn't:
5R rifling - definiely fouls less/easier to clean. May not be more accurate though.
Stainless barrel/action and jeweled bolt - a matter of personal preference, but these things cost more on any rifle and the sps does not have them.
11.25" twist - tailored for 175gr bullets. May be good or bad depending on what bullet weight you want to shoot.
HS Precision stock - again a matter of preference, however the HS precision stock is significantly more expensive to buy than the sps vamint stock or the hogue that comes on the tactical.
x-mark trigger - my 5R came with an x-mark, my friends sps did not. Not sure if that is a timing issue or the sps varmint doesn't come with it.

Of course whether those things are worth the ~$400 price difference is up to each person, but there are specific features you are getting for the money.

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