Aperture sights for Browning 1885 Highwall without Tang...


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Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 03:21 AM
Looking for an aperture sight, preferably micrometer adjustable or at least have provisions for elevation adjustment, for my Browning 1885. It does not have a tang, and I would rather avoid the pain and expense of having one fabricated, welded, and blued. There is a dovetail as well as drilled and tapped holes in the barrel (octagon) for sights/optics. Recoil is a pretty big consideration, as the rifle will soon be rechambered for .45-120NE (nitrocellulose loading of .45-120), so I need a fairly stout mounting solution and sight. Anyone know of any options?

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Maverick223_album/RustysRags.jpg

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scythefwd
December 10, 2009, 03:33 AM
Would you mind posting a top view of that receiver? If it is the same as the 1886, Lyman makes a receiver sight that fits the 1886 without machining. Williams makes one that claims to fit the 1885 without machining/smithing. I posted links in the other thread, from where you redirected me to here. What is the spacing on the taps? As far out as that rear sight would be.... you might need a huge aperture to see through, where in relation to the back of the hand guard wood, is the taps?

Beautiful wood on that rifle.

Trying to become a Quigly? Isn't the 45-120 what he shot??

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 03:42 AM
Would you mind posting a top view of that receiver?LOL, just took her out for a photo shoot...will be right back with measurements...

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Maverick223_album/guns/IMG_4536.jpg

http://i642.photobucket.com/albums/uu141/Maverick223_album/guns/IMG_4539.jpg

Beautiful wood on that rifle.
Thank you, it was love at first sight.

Trying to become a Quigley? Isn't the 45-120 what he shot?More like a Pondoro with the load I chose (driving a 450gr. about 2400fps), but I believe he did (either that or a .45-110 for sure).

:)

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 03:45 AM
Center to center (on receiver and bbl) measures about 0.5in.

scythefwd
December 10, 2009, 04:01 AM
That .5 inches might be enough. I'd contact BOTH lyman and williams to see what the spacing is for their sights. I think, from the pics I have seen, the lymans are mounting to the reciever (the round part).

You know, doing something just for the kick of it is just an expression... right??

scythefwd
December 10, 2009, 04:11 AM
lyman 66 might be just what you are looking for. BRB, looking into the williams sight now.

FP-1885-TK by williams claims they don't need smithing at all. Can't find spacing info for the mounting holes, but website says drilling not needed. I would suspect that .5 inches is standard for scope mounts, so the receiver sights would use that spacing. That sounds right to me, but I could just be hyped up on caffeine.

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 04:14 AM
That .5 inches might be enough. I'd contact BOTH lyman and williams to see what the spacing is for their sights. I think, from the pics I have seen, the lymans are mounting to the reciever (the round part).10-4, will certainly give that a shot.

You know, doing something just for the kick of it is just an expression... right?Hehehe, you never know when you might need a good buff duster...I can't get to the mailbox without tripping over them pesky buffalo. :D As I load it now I don't have many shooting buddies that care for it...wonder if they'll notice when I get it rechambered? :evil:

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 04:24 AM
The Lymans 66, looks to be side mounted, so I doubt it will work. OTOH the Williams 1885-TK sounds promising as it is receiver mounted and has all of the features that I seek. Thanks, scythe, you're the man.

Edit: Found this one (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=118542) too, but can't for the life of me figure out how it works without a tang, unless the photo is incorrect. :confused:

:)

scythefwd
December 10, 2009, 06:07 AM
the lyman 66 is a receiver mounted from what the install pdf at the bottm was saying. It hangs off the side of the receiver to allow for more adjustment. Much like how my redfields do.

looks like the marble uses the pretapped screws on the receiver as well. It has a specific base for the 1885 no tang configuration.

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 11:50 AM
the lyman 66 is a receiver mounted from what the install pdf at the bottm was saying.Makes since, it was late...I missed that.

looks like the marble uses the pretapped screws on the receiver as well. It has a specific base for the 1885 no tang configuration.I think it has to (that or the bbl), and the photo is of the tang version (the one photo'd is way too high and holes too far spaced for receiver mount). Again thank you for all of the help.

:)

Jim Watson
December 10, 2009, 12:01 PM
I don't know how the Marbles attaches, but I cannot recommend a tang sight for a hard kicker like you will end up with. Those things are CLOSE to the eye. My BPCR tang sight will rap my glasses if I am a little out of position, and I am doing about half the velocity you are going for.

The Williams sight will likely attach to the scope base holes on top of the receiver. Looks like the way to go.

mete
December 10, 2009, 12:22 PM
An aperture sight works properly when it's close to the eye .But there's the recoil problem with a 45-120 when tang mounted .I've never used iron sights on my 45-70 but if I did I'd dump the Browning ones and get a proper patridge adjustable sight .

rcmodel
December 10, 2009, 12:26 PM
According to Marble's catalog, the only sight they make for the 1885 is a tang sight for rifles that have a tang.

No mention of a sight for 1885's without a tang.

rc

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 12:27 PM
I don't know how the Marbles attaches, but I cannot recommend a tang sight for a hard kicker like you will end up with.That is what I was thinking, ideally I would like to have open sights with a flip up aperture (like on the 1903), but I doubt that exists. I originally was going to throw a period style scope with a small ocular on there, I later determined that was a bad idea.

Looks like the way to go.I think you're right. Thanks, Jim.

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 12:30 PM
No mention of a sight for 1885's without a tang.Called and found out it is the same as the tang sight, just with wood screws and I don't think I want to drill into and mount my primary sight to the wood stock.

:)

rcmodel
December 10, 2009, 12:46 PM
Check out Track of the Wolf any sight your heart desires.
Except that one!

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(miayle553zjvxi55h0ohwr55))/categories/catList.aspx?catID=14#167

rc

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 08:27 PM
...any sight your heart desires...Except that one!No kidding, but I think I can find something that fits the bill. Thanks RC, scythe, Jim, and mete; I appreciate all the help, advice, and links.

:)

fineredmist
December 10, 2009, 09:35 PM
Williams Gunsight model FP1885

Maverick223
December 10, 2009, 09:47 PM
Williams Gunsight model FP1885Thanks, dually noted, they even make a "TK" version with target knobs.

What do you guys think about adding a tang sight mounted in the wood stock (measured it and it should give me about 4" of eye relief), as well as a flip up open sight (for fast target acquisition)? I am unsure of mounting anything to the stock for fear that it may move according to humidity and the possibility of buggering up the stock. I need to talk to a smith and get his opinion, as well as Williams and Lymans, before I decide, but I would very much like to hear what your thoughts are.

:)

scythefwd
December 11, 2009, 12:16 AM
Please don't mar that beautiful stock with screw holes.

Jim Watson
December 11, 2009, 12:20 AM
There have been tang sights for mounting on the H&R Wesson & Harrington Buffalo Rifle that screws into the neck of the stock on that tangless action. It also works for the Trapdoor Springfield and other short or no tang actions. For a sturdier installation, I have read of epoxying a brass bushing into the stock so you could use machine screws to mount the sight.
Check with Buffalo Arms, they are helpful and carry a lot of sights.

The MVA Rough and Ready sight as once used on Remington Rolling Blocks might serve your purpose. Takes some gunsmithing, even if only drilling and tapping. The traditional installation was on the barrel right ahead of the action. Too close for the open, too far for the peep, if you ask me.
http://www.montanavintagearms.com/rough_ready.html

You could probably have a Trapdoor Springfield Buffington sight put on without too much trouble. Similar adjustments to 1903 Springfield.
http://www.trapdoorcollector.com/TrapdoorSights.html


I think the Williams is about the only way to avoid more or less gunsmithing.

But to get both peep and open you should see if the Lyman 66 for 1886 could be adapted, just two holes to drill and tap. Lyman elevation slides are QD with stop screws so you can go back to zero.

Maverick223
December 11, 2009, 12:56 AM
There have been tang sights for mounting on the H&R Wesson & Harrington Buffalo Rifle that screws into the neck of the stock on that tangless action. It also works for the Trapdoor Springfield and other short or no tang actions. For a sturdier installation, I have read of epoxying a brass bushing into the stock so you could use machine screws to mount the sight.That is great news...I might mar me a stock (actually I think I will let a competent smith do it for me as an insurance policy) and go with what I really want...a flip up open sight for quick deployment (a BUIS :D), and a tang sight for precision.

Please don't mar that beautiful stock with screw holes.I think I might...but go with epoxied bushings installed by a competent gunsmith (if I can find one).

I think the Williams is about the only way to avoid more or less gunsmithing.

But to get both peep and open you should see if the Lyman 66 for 1886 could be adapted, just two holes to drill and tap. Lyman elevation slides are QD with stop screws so you can go back to zero.Both are good options, and I may go with one of these after a little more research and consideration; however I don't want to use the MVA or Trapdoor sight due to having to drill and tap for proper spacing.

Again thank you all for all of the insightful help, I didn't realize I had this many options.

:)

scythefwd
December 11, 2009, 02:50 AM
If you are going to inlet and place a brass bushing in there to screw down into... you might want to look for a GOOD furniture maker. Two bushings with a flush set inlaid brass plate would look nice on the top of that stock....but I still couldn't bring myself to do that :)

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