HP 38 9mm Loads for 147gr


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Gunmenhunter
December 10, 2009, 09:39 AM
Does anyone have load data for 9mm HP38 with 147gr Gold Dots? Will be used in a G34

Thanks

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steve4102
December 10, 2009, 09:55 AM
You can use 231 data.

ArchAngelCD
December 10, 2009, 09:57 AM
As you probably know HP-38 and W231 are the same powders.

Lyman #49 has data for W231 and a 147gr Sierra TMJ bullet.
They list a OAL of 1.115"
Starting charge is 3.5gr
Max charge is 4.1gr

Hope this helps you and welcome to the forum...

rcmodel
December 10, 2009, 02:36 PM
If all else fails, look at Hodgdon's web site, or buy their reloading manual.

They make it.

rc

ArchAngelCD
December 10, 2009, 07:01 PM
If all else fails, look at Hodgdon's web site, or buy their reloading manual.

They make it.

rc
I was about to give him the same advice until I checked the Hodgdon site. Hodgdon doesn't list HP-38/W231 for the 9mm using a 147gr bullet.

rfwobbly
December 10, 2009, 09:29 PM
IMHO, HP-38 / Win231 are a little too fast for 147gr in a 9. That's why you're having trouble finding the load. It's simply not an optimal powder for the heavier bullet.

When you use fast powders on heavy bullets it's like trying to get a bowling ball rolling by smacking it with a base ball bat. It can be done, but you'll have much better success with a push rather than a whack.

Try some VV N340. You'll think you've died and gone to Heaven.

ArchAngelCD
December 11, 2009, 03:29 AM
I tend to agree with rfwobbly, you might want to use a slower powder with that heavy a bullet.

I have use HS-6 and Longshot with very good results with a 147gr bullet in the 9mm. Even though I prefer HS-6 most times I have to admit Longshot really shines in that application. Also, I've heard a lot of good things about AutoComp lately. It might be worth a try too...

chbrow10
December 11, 2009, 12:56 PM
A while back there was a poster with the User name "Jim Watson" that said the 1993 Hodgdon manual listed a load for W231 (same as HP38, check the load data from Hodgdon if you don't believe us) with a Winchester 147 grain bullet. The bullet material was unspecified. The starting load was 4.0 gr and the max was 4.3 gr.

I used this data to work up a competition load for my son. The gun is a Glock 34. We are using Berry's 147 gr plated bullets, with a charge of 4.0 gr of W231. The OAL is 1.135", but we didn't find any big velocity difference between 1.125 and 1.135" OAL. Average speed of 10 shots in 957 fps.

There are several of us in the competion world that prescribe to the "heavy bullet, fast powder" school of though to reduce felt recoil (for making power factor), which allows a faster follow-up shot. Please, don't take my word for it, check out any of the other forums, Especially Brian Enos.

Hope this helps,

Chris

chbrow10
December 11, 2009, 12:57 PM
Also see

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=5954847#post5954847

this thread is similar and has a discussion on the heavy bullet, fast powder preference in competition shooters. Folks disagreed on the topic, and no one got mean. It was nice... ArchAngel was posting in that one as well, and he and I had the same exact discussion there. I have since gone to an even faster powder, Bullseye, and am very happy with the results.

More on bullet weight and powder selection from someone who knows what they are talking about.


http://robleatham.com/blog/2008/11/0...minor-caliber/

http://robleatham.com/blog/2008/11/03/9mm-minor-part-2/

Mags
December 11, 2009, 02:19 PM
For 147 grain cast lead I use 3.5 grains of HP-38 and an OAL of 1.15, it's a pretty light load but it cycles the slide just fine on my M&P.

Gunmenhunter
December 11, 2009, 09:27 PM
Thanks for the info guys, this will give me a simple base to start from Semper Fi

rfwobbly
December 11, 2009, 09:34 PM
...this thread is similar and has a discussion on the heavy bullet, fast powder preference in competition shooters.

Ah, but there's the difference. In competition you want the bullet out the barrel fast, and you want the action to cycle very quickly so you can get back on target and do the follow-up shot.

Remember, in competition you may be shooting at a "swinger". (A target that is literally swinging from hidden to exposed back to hidden.) The ability to get off 2 shots on a single swing puts you 3 or more seconds faster to the next target. 3 whole seconds is an eternity in modern pistol competition. Why there are whole stages that only take 5-6 seconds to shoot!!!

So YES you CAN shoot it. But it's not comfortable for your wrists or great for your gun.

chbrow10
December 12, 2009, 09:56 AM
rfwobbly,

Can you expand on the "good for your gun" statement please?

Chris

ArchAngelCD
December 12, 2009, 02:13 PM
rfwobbly,

Can you expand on the "good for your gun" statement please?

Chris
Chris, not to answer for "rfwobbly" but I can give you the general answer to that question. All guns are different so all ammo will shoot differently in each. When I say "good for my gun" I'm saying even though it shoots well in my gun it may not shoot well in your gun. For example, I have 2 short barrel .357 Magnum revolvers. One just loves 145gr Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum ammo. The other will produce twice the spread in a group with the same ammo. The same will hold true for handloads. Just because it's great with gun "X" doesn't guarantee it will shoot great from gun "Y". That even holds true with 2 of the same exact guns. (although it's less likely)

rcmodel
December 12, 2009, 02:24 PM
rfwobbly,
Can you expand on the "good for your gun" statement please?I'm not rfwoobly, but I can address the question.

Consider using a very fast powder with a very heavy bullet as like:
Hitting a bowling ball with your fist as hard as you can.
That's gonna smart!

Shove the same bowling ball with the palm of your hand, or the heavy bullet with slower powder, and it won't hurt at all.

The 147 in a 9mm is at the upper limit of bullet weight and case capacity.

From a gun wear standpoint, it is better shoved with slow powder to get it moving, then smacked with a sharp blow from fast powder.

rc

chbrow10
December 12, 2009, 05:01 PM
ok, I think I understand what you are saying, but I'm wondering what specific parts would wear out due to this type of load (so I can watch out for them). All autos have springs and all that to make sure that nothing gets battered too bad. What would happen if I took two identical guns, one shooting my load (heavy bullet, fast powder), and one shooting a load like, using rcmodel's example, heavy bullet and a slow powder, and shot 10,000 rounds through each of them?

rfwobbly
December 12, 2009, 06:16 PM
rfwobbly,
Can you expand on the "good for your gun" statement please?

I'm not an rfwobbly either, but I play one on TV.... :D


IMHO 2 things are happening with fast powders and heavy bullets...
There is a possible pressure spike stressing the steel of the chamber
There is the slide being slammed back rather than pushed to the rear

These are 2 types of wear that I'd like to avoid. To me there are several huge advantages to reloading, but one that no one talks about much is reduced gun wear. And in this particular case it's so very easy, follow the reloading manual and choose a slightly slower powder.

chbrow10
December 12, 2009, 09:24 PM
ok, good discussion guys. I think I understand what y'all are saying. I'm not changing the way I do things, but I understand your perspective.

45ACPUSER
December 12, 2009, 09:27 PM
If all else fails, look at Hodgdon's web site, or buy their reloading manual.

They make it.

rc

No HODGDON DOES NOT MAKE HP38 or W231......General Dynamics makes it at their St Marks Powder operation in Florida. In fact Hodgdon makes no powder at all. But they sure package a lot of powder made by ADI in Austrialia, General Dynamics in Canada and FL.

ArchAngelCD
December 13, 2009, 03:21 AM
No HODGDON DOES NOT MAKE HP38 or W231......General Dynamics makes it at their St Marks Powder operation in Florida. In fact Hodgdon makes no powder at all. But they sure package a lot of powder made by ADI in Austrialia, General Dynamics in Canada and FL.
C'mon now, is that really necessary. You know very well what "rcmodel" meant!! :rolleyes:

chris in va
December 13, 2009, 03:04 PM
I guess by that line of thought, Levi's doesn't make jeans.

Mags
December 13, 2009, 05:31 PM
The point was that Hodgdon's makes a reloading manual.

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