[B]Best CA legal semi auto centerfire for the Money?


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KodeFore
December 10, 2009, 02:05 PM
I have been looking for a ca legal semi auto for a while and I am getting close to going out and actually buying one. This is what I have come up with so far:

I toted an m16a1 around for a few years, so I feel comfy and somewhat drawn to that design, unfortunatly what passes for an AR in CA is anything but impressive.

Best deal on an AR I have come accross is a Del-ton @ 889 with a flat top & fixed 10 rnd mag

There are detachable mag ARs available you can buy or build, and man does that ever make for some extra strange looking AR stocks!

Ruger mini 14s go for around 750 here, I dont particulary care for the feel of those so thats out

Kel-tec SU-16CA 650. Lifetime warranty, Folds up for easy storage or packing, takes detachable AR Magazines.

That one looks promising

next on my list for serious consideration are the Saiga AK sporters

350 gets one in 223 16 barrel
400 gets one 7.62x39 20'
490 gets you the .308 win model with a 16.

a freind has a 308 and he loves it. More stopping power per shot, but heavier more expensive ammo ( I have a basic reloading setup for 38/357 so maybe i could save by handloading by investing in a set of dies & components. ?? )

Wich is the best choice from these or is there something I'm overlooking?

Yeah the m1a would be great, but thats way over my budget ( 1k or less & the lesser the better )

Thanks in advance for the input

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Big_E
December 10, 2009, 02:17 PM
Saiga or Kel-Tec SU-16

You know, you can have a detachable magazine AR w/ all the "evil" features. It's called a bullet button. It requires a tool to press the magazine release so technically it is a fixed magazine.

9mmepiphany
December 10, 2009, 07:06 PM
i've been looking into this recently because i'm feeling the need for an urban rifle...as opposed to something with more reach like the M1a or more PC like a Marlin 1894

i think the Ultimate CA legal Urban Rifle is the Vz 58

1. it is chamber in 7.62x39mm for punch against vehicles
2. it has a milled receiver and yet is lighter than the stamped AK
3. it is more accurate than the AK
4. it comes with a stripper clip guide built-in...makes CA loading faster
5. the Czechs know how to build nice guns...look at CZ
6. Czechpoint will pay your DROS fee

BTW: i'm not a hater either. i'm old enough that i got my AR, AK and FAL before the AWB, i registered them, so i can have a normal mag release and i stocked up on full cap mags too

John Parker
December 10, 2009, 07:34 PM
it is chamber in 7.62x39mm for punch against vehicles


What components in the vehicle are you hoping to damage? Cars can coast a looooong way with a shot-out radiator or even a busted engine block.

d2wing
December 10, 2009, 07:56 PM
Remington and Browning make semi-auto hunting rifles that are more accurate and better balanced than a Saiga. I have a Remington 7400 in 30-06 and a Saiga 7.62, and an AR.

9mmepiphany
December 10, 2009, 08:02 PM
What components in the vehicle are you hoping to damage?

thinking of the soft things inside...i'm referring to punching through doors, windshields and such. ;)

was brought up by a friend returning from a contract training assignment in Iraq. they kept a AK loaded for folks who wanted to crash their training sessions

ganymede
December 10, 2009, 08:11 PM
"What components in the vehicle are you hoping to damage?"

my answer would be the driver

KodeFore
December 10, 2009, 09:19 PM
I know about the bullet button, that requires a tool ( or bullet ) to change mags, I am also aware of the prince 50, the monsterman grip, the u15 & the hammerhead. Not sure I care for them. If was going with something wierd looking like one of those, I think I would need to at least shoot something like that before sinking around 1k into it.

Thanks for heads up on the CZ that that looks worth a look.

Quiet
December 10, 2009, 10:05 PM
If you own large capacity magazines for the AR15/M16 system, then go with the Kel-Tec SU-16CA.

If you don't own any large capacity magazines, then go with a Saiga.

Juice Boxes
December 10, 2009, 11:49 PM
Kinda Expensive but new--Benelli's MR1?

BEST OPTION=
(MOVE OUT OF CA)

Big_E
December 11, 2009, 12:26 AM
Yes I am taking the best option. (Move out of CA)

I want a new rifle now. But I figure I will just save my money for my big move. its only about 6 more months anyway.

The vz 58 is a very nice tool. However, I don't think its the best for the money ($850 IIRC??) But I will definitely buy one. I really just don't want to have to deal w/ all the CA legal crap right now.

zhyla
December 11, 2009, 01:03 AM
There aren't many common rifles you can't make legal in CA. Blocking the pistol grip (mosterman, kydex grip wraps, etc) is not as awkward to handle as it looks. I'm not a fan of the bullet-button route but it gets the job done.

There's going to be a lot of legal action in CA following the McDonald vs Chicago SCOTUS case next spring. The CA assault weapon ban is high on the list of the Calguns Foundation (as is the handgun roster). If you're a CA resident, do yourself a favor and send a few bucks to Calguns (calguns.net). They've also got a pretty active forum specific to CA legal issues and legally configuring would-be AW's.

Oh and my vote is a featureless AK built (MMG, etc).

Moose458
December 11, 2009, 11:35 AM
+1 For the Czechpoint CZ vz58. That is one fantastic rifle.

ArmedBear
December 11, 2009, 11:57 AM
Did you mean "best for the money" or "the cheapest"?

There's a good argument to be made for the Springfield M1A Standard, as good value. Reliable, accurate, legal to use in California with a detachable magazine, a true multi-purpose rifle, not just a toy.

But it's not the cheapest.

rangerruck
December 11, 2009, 12:25 PM
cz 58, ar with the Hammerhead attachment, or a straight up Saiga.

John Parker
December 11, 2009, 05:43 PM
thinking of the soft things inside...i'm referring to punching through doors, windshields and such.

A .223 does just fine going through windshields and car doors.

9mmepiphany
December 11, 2009, 08:44 PM
OK...whatever you're comfortable with

blackops
December 11, 2009, 09:26 PM
My buddy picked up a Daniels in 223, put a red dot on it, and I have to say it's impressive.

THE DARK KNIGHT
December 11, 2009, 09:34 PM
IMO the "bullet button" locking the mag in place is a major disadvantage not worth suffering for a pistol grip.

Get a Saiga in 7.62x39 and don't convert it, or that Kel Tec 5.56 rifle.

Avenger29
December 11, 2009, 09:38 PM
M1 Garand?

It'd be smart to handload for whatever you do buy...

CTW
December 11, 2009, 10:13 PM
Three letters SKS.

9mmepiphany
December 12, 2009, 12:16 AM
Three letters SKS.

that used to be the definative semi-auto CA legal rifle, but i'm thining the Vz 58 is better in every area except price

JimmAr
December 12, 2009, 12:34 AM
unfortunatly what passes for an AR in CA is anything but impressive.

Get an off list lower.. like POF or Noveske.. Magpul put a bullet button on it.. then throw whatever you want on the damn thing..ez as cake.

Zoogster
December 12, 2009, 01:03 AM
Get an off list lower.. like POF or Noveske.. Magpul put a bullet button on it.. then throw whatever you want on the damn thing..ez as cake.

Except a magazine over 10 rounds, even if you have some legally.


If you go the bullet button route you are creating a fixed magazine rifle. Fixed magazine firearms can not have a capacity over 10 rounds, period (except tubular .22 rimfire.)
Any manufacture of a fixed magazine firearm with over a 10 round magazine is creation of an illegal "unregistered assault weapon".

This means if you insert your legally possessed and grandfathered 30 round magazine (or 11+ round magazine) into your legally possessed fixed magazine firearm you just committed a felony. The felony of illegally manufacturing an unregistered assault weapon.

The punishment is 4, 6, or 8 years in prison:

12280. (a) (1) Any person who, within this state, manufactures or
causes to be manufactured, distributes, transports, or imports into
the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who
gives or lends any assault weapon or any .50 BMG rifle, except as
provided by this chapter, is guilty of a felony, and upon conviction
shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for four, six,
or eight years.


2276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:

(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.


At the range shooting different firearms including some that can legally use 11+ round magazines, and you or someone with you slaps in a 11+ round magazine in your bullet buttoned firearm?
A felony was just committed.
Any video of that range trip, or surveillance footage is evidence of that felony, as would be any statement such a thing had been done by anyone present, who would be eye witnesses to the commission of the felony.
At that moment or at any point in the future within the statute of limitations a felony arrest, prosecution, and conviction can be pursued.

JimmAr
December 12, 2009, 01:39 AM
Except a magazine over 10 rounds, even if you have some legally.

Yep thats correct.. more along the lines of on-topic.. as the "best" legal semi auto centerfire would be an AR built from the ground up regardless of the mag cap.

John Parker
December 13, 2009, 04:25 PM
OK...whatever you're comfortable with


No, really. I've seen it multiple times overseas. It's not an issue.

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