Aquila 40S&W junk!


PDA






Shrinkmd
December 10, 2009, 11:13 PM
I previously posted a while ago that I had some Aquila 40 S&W cases which wouldn't fit into the Hornady shell holder. They do fit into my shell plate, however, so I tried running them through the sizing die. After resizing, they do not fit into the case gauge! They were fired by me, through a S&W 4006 (which as far as I know does not have any issues with unsupported chambers and bulged case heads like a Glock)

Has anyone else had this difficulty with Aquila brass? And how can it not fit into the case gauge after being resized??

If you enjoyed reading about "Aquila 40S&W junk!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Seedtick
December 10, 2009, 11:57 PM
`

I've not had any trouble with their brass.

I know for sure I've loaded some 40 & 9mm and probably some 380 but no probs here at least not that I know of.

Does it measure over size with calipers?

Guppy bellies?
:confused:

ST

Runningman
December 11, 2009, 06:28 PM
They were fired by me, through a S&W 4006 (which as far as I know does not have any issues with unsupported chambers and bulged case heads like a Glock)

My S&W 4006 does not have a fully supported chamber neither do many semi autos in 40 S&W. So your cases are puffed out at the bottom hence Guppy bellies.

And how can it not fit into the case gauge after being resized??


Look at the bottom of your die. Dies have a radius at the bottom so this portion does not get resized. The solution is a to run it thru a Redding G-RX die before resizing.

Ky Larry
December 11, 2009, 07:35 PM
I have a few hundred Aquila .45 ACP cases. I have relaoded them a half dozen times and have had no problems. Have no experience with .40 S&W. Sorry.

soloban
December 11, 2009, 07:55 PM
I purchased 500 empty .45 cases in a mixed lot when I started reloading. I probably have about 50 or so Aguila cases and I noticed that they are hard to seat the primers into. If I recall they were harder to resize and bell the case mouths on as well. I'll probably leave them at the range for some sucker when I shoot them. :D

ar10
December 11, 2009, 11:03 PM
I run Aguila cases through my XD's all the time and never had a problem with them. I use a Hornady LnL single stage and a small Lee. They're better than the Federals I have, (had).

Shrinkmd
December 11, 2009, 11:06 PM
But the interesting thing is that these cases didn't even fit into the Hornady shell holder for the single stage press (although they do fit into the shell plate on my LNL) I will have to see if the case head is bulged, but I think they had trouble going in even at the mouth. I will double check this.

Obviously after I fire some reloads I will see if they are also getting bulged and messed up. That may limit my reloading and shooting of 40 S&W. But I could swear that this topic came up on another forum and the consensus was that 4006 did not have a problem ruining the brass like Glocks do.

8emem
December 12, 2009, 12:19 PM
When I load .45 acp I have noticed that some of the Aquila cases get slightly malformed somewhere during the sizing, belling, seating, or crimping process. It is very subtle and not easily detected unless you are eyeballing every re-loaded round. Usually I find the problem when a reloaded cartridge won't chamber in one of my revolvers or semi-autos. It looks like the brass is thinner. I have begun weeding them out in .45 acp. I'm not picky about brass, but this is the first issue in .45 acp that I have encountered consistently with one brand.

On the other hand, I just finished reloading 1,000 .38 specials and used some Aquila brass in the process. These passed the cartridge gauge test so I am not culling Aquila in this caliber - yet.

ar10
December 12, 2009, 01:14 PM
The "mal-forming" is usually caused by not having the case all the way into the shell holder, at least on my single stage presses, and always my 40's. I attribute it to me not paying attention, which is sometimes hard when cranking out a lot of bullets.

Shrinkmd
December 16, 2009, 07:46 PM
I just tried slipping a non-fired Aquila into the shell holder, and it went in perfectly. I remember that the ammo was hot, so the other poster's comment about the head growing must be on the money, due to an overly hot loading.

Everything I have read and asked about a 4006TSW is that the case head is fully supported, so the brass isn't guppy bellied, but clearly I have problems with those once fired cases.

So, is it worth getting the Redding G-Rx die to size them all back to standard, and relegate them to light Bullseye target loads, or is it a waste of time, money, and too much safety risk to attempt to reuse this brass? I'm assuming a bit that Redding wouldn't create that die if it wasn't reasonably safe to use it.

Shrinkmd
January 17, 2010, 09:10 PM
Ok, I just checked some brass from the range. I cleaned and resized, and my Starline and Federal NT (shot from my pistol) resize and go right into the case gauge no problem. I have an Aguila case from that same day's trip to the range, and it won't even fit into the shell holder. Junk!

But seriously, does anyone have the G-Rx die who would be willing to run a few through and see if it fixes the problem? I would be happy to mail you a few cases for you to try out. I'd rather not have to buy (and then return) the die to Midway or wherever.

Someone please PM me, and I'll mail you a few cleaned, fired cases for you to G-Rx and see if we can resurrect this brass!

atblis
January 17, 2010, 09:13 PM
What dies are you using? The Lee dies do a pretty good job of getting the body of the case that many other dies miss.

Though truthfully, 40 brass is much too common to mess around with cases that are suspect. Chuck them and move along.

Shrinkmd
January 17, 2010, 09:27 PM
Hornady shell holders, shell plates, dies, and press.

Yeah, I will chuck them, but I'm curious enough to blow a dollar or two on postage for someone to see if the rims can be squeezed back into spec. I have a nice amount of the brass, so in theory it would be nice...

Shrinkmd
September 26, 2012, 09:02 AM
I was at the range with a new M&P40, and didn't have any non-lead ammo, so I found my last few boxes of this junk.

Well, guess what. There were times the pistol didn't fully go into battery. It would fire, but the firing pin only made a tiny dent on the primer. After another go around they all fired, except for one dud!

I hope I didn't damage my pistol shooting any of this garbage. I brought home a fired case, and same exact problem fitting into the shell holder.

Funny thing is, I've picked up buckets of 40 brass off the range, and never had anything like this...

bds
September 26, 2012, 09:29 AM
Hot hot hot!

I just tried slipping a non-fired Aquila into the shell holder, and it went in perfectly. I remember that the ammo was hot, so the other poster's comment about the head growing must be on the money, due to an overly hot loading.
Lesson of the day:

Don't use "HOT" loads with mixed range 40S&W brass with unknown reload history/brass condition or you may overly expand/bulge the case wall/base.

For me, with mixed range brass with unknown reload history, I use mid-to-high range load data with W231/HP-38 or slower burn rate powders and the case bulges are very slight and can be fully resized with regular Lee carbide resizing die - no need to "fix" with FCD or G-Rx "push-through" resizing.


So, is it worth getting the Redding G-Rx die to size them all back to standard, and relegate them to light Bullseye target loads, or is it a waste of time, money, and too much safety risk to attempt to reuse this brass? I'm assuming a bit that Redding wouldn't create that die if it wasn't reasonably safe to use it.
Lee Precision, Redding or any other company will sell products that has a market demand for them. As long as there are 40S&W Glock pistols shooting near max/max+ loads and reloaders willing to reuse the bulged brass, there will be demand for push-through resizing dies.

Read Lee Precision's warning about FCD use to "fix" Glocked cases - http://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit.html
Glock Cases: We do not recommend "fixing" cases fired in pistols with unsupported chambers, because there is no way to make them safe once they have bulged. The case wall is thinned where it bulges, and resizing the outside of the case back down to the correct diameter does not restore the case back to its original thickness. If this case is fired in a pistol with an unsupported chamber again, and this thinned section of brass happens to line up with the unsupported part of the chamber, there is a high probability that the case will rupture.

Problem is that overly expanded/bulged brass case may have experienced thinning of case wall/base which will weaken the brass. Even though you can resize the bulge using FCD/G-Rx die, you somehow cannot magically make a thinned wall thicker again or weakened brass wall strong again ... :confused: If you repeatedly shoot hot loads that will bulge the case wall and keep fixing with FCD/G-Rx die, you may progressively thin/weaken the case wall to the point of case wall failure/rupture, which is a bad thing (can you say KaBoom?).


Ok, I just checked some brass from the range. I cleaned and resized, and my Starline and Federal NT (shot from my pistol) resize and go right into the case gauge no problem. I have an Aguila case from that same day's trip to the range, and it won't even fit into the shell holder. Junk!
I think you answered your own question. When I sort spent cases and inspect for damage/splits, I toss cases that I have any concerns/issues with regards to any visible physical damage to the brass. When I run into an overly bulged case that won't fully resize with regular Lee carbide resizing die, my QC step is to rotate the case 90 degrees and attempt to resize again. If it won't, I deem the case far too stretched and I toss in the recycle bin ... I like "Better safe than KB!" reloading practice on my bench - YMMV

Someone please PM me, and I'll mail you a few cleaned, fired cases for you to G-Rx and see if we can resurrect this brass!
And if the brass bulges again with your hot load, will you send them out to be push-through resized again? :uhoh:

Toss the brass in question to be recycled for scrap metal and move on. There are plenty of good brass out there to be reloaded.

rbernie
September 26, 2012, 10:02 AM
Sorry that you had this issue. I have shot thousands of rounds of Aguila factory ammo (mostly 9mm and 45ACP) and reloaded tens of thousands of rounds of Aguila 45ACP brass without apparent issue.

Dunno why your lot of 40S&W would be so unsatisfying, but it might have been worth a call to the Aguila folk to tell them of your woes.

GLOOB
September 26, 2012, 07:09 PM
Lee's warning withstanding, I will debulge once-fired brass without hesitation AND fire those reloads in a gun without full chamber support... as long as my REloads do not REbulge these cases.

The regular FCD works for me for push-thru sizing. When you use a push through sizer, the case rim is not even held in a shellholder, so you should have no issues push-thru sizing those cases.

Shrinkmd
October 7, 2012, 08:39 AM
3 boxes of my lead reloads later, zero problems. I think the gun is softer shooting than a 4006.

I need to try out those 155gr bullets I bought.

No more Aquila for me!

Innovative
October 8, 2012, 09:12 PM
Gloob ..... +1

If you enjoyed reading about "Aquila 40S&W junk!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!