[Agnostalgia]

As I understand it, a shotgun has to be at least 26" over all with a barrel at least 18" long. I found this little guy sold at https://www.southernohiogun.com/index.php/double-barrel-derr-11-45lc-410.htmlhttps://www.southernohiogun.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/F/M/FMJ-802411DB.jpg :D

Like it says, it has an 11" barrel and can fire .410. I'm aware of the 3" derringers but I don't understand how it's not illegal :confused:

[Ditch-Tiger]

It probably slips through the same way the Tuarus does...

My guess is that it's rifled and since it's chambered in 45LC it's not clasified as a shotgun.

[eldon519]

.410s are not classified as shotguns for whatever reason. Maybe it's cause they are designated by caliber rather than gauge.

[sheepdog]

...when I worked in a pawn shop, we sold them as handguns...

[natman]

.410s are not classified as shotguns for whatever reason. Maybe it's cause they are designated by caliber rather than gauge.
410s are very much shotguns.

From the website (https://www.southernohiogun.com/index.php/double-barrel-derr-11-45lc-410.html):

"This model feature 11” barrels, 45/.410 ga 3” rifle, 14” overall length, quick takedown, only 2 pounds, Zytel grip and fore end and positive push through safety."

It would appear that the barrels are rifled, which is what makes this a pistol rather than a short barreled shotgun.

[fireman 9731]

Buy 2 for $149.95 each

That is outragiously cheap....

[sheepdog]

...wouldn't accept one as a gift, having only handled two or three...

[mlaustin]

On a federal level, only smoothbore weapons are shotguns. There's a great deal of debate in CA at the moment about the Taurus Judge because CA state law defines a shotgun differently than federal law which should make the Judge illegal, but they are still being sold here on a daily basis.

[Quiet]

On a federal level, only smoothbore weapons are shotguns. There's a great deal of debate in CA at the moment about the Taurus Judge because CA state law defines a shotgun differently than federal law which should make the Judge illegal, but they are still being sold here on a daily basis.

CA laws on SBS defines a SBS differently than on the Federal level.
Under CA law, if it can fire a shotgun shell and has a barrel length less than 18" and/or overall length less than 26", than it's a SBS.
Debate is between the letter of the law and people who think it doesn't apply to them.

Penal Code 12020
(c)(1) As used in this section, a "short-barreled shotgun" means any of the following:
(A) A firearm which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell and having a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(B) A firearm which has an overall length of less than 26 inches and which is designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell.
(C) Any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 18 inches in length.
(D) Any device which may be readily restored to fire a fixed shotgun shell which, when so restored, is a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive.
(E) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C) inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subparagraphs (A) to (C), inclusive, can be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

[zhyla]

On a federal level, only smoothbore weapons are shotguns. There's a great deal of debate in CA at the moment about the Taurus Judge because CA state law defines a shotgun differently than federal law which should make the Judge illegal, but they are still being sold here on a daily basis.

The Judge isn't on the CA handgun roster, so it isn't being sold here. If you know a place that is selling it... well, they're illegally selling handguns.

I believe the double-barreled pistol from the OP can be registered in CA as an AOW ("any other weapon"), but you'd have to do some digging to verify that.

[rcmodel]

That is outragiously cheap.... Yep!

But "Outragiously Cheap" applies to more then just the price!
It also applies to the quality of the gun.

.410s are not classified as shotguns for whatever reason.Wanna bet?

Even .22 pistols are ATF "shotguns" if you ream the rifling out and make a smooth-bore for .22 rat-shot out of it.

rc

[Steve C]

The rifled barrel and .45 lc chambering makes it a handgun and not a short barrel shotgun. It wasn't designed specifically to shoot shotgun shells, it just can shoot them.

[Drail]

If it is a design or reproduction of a design from before 1898 it is not classified as a firearm as are most blackpowder guns. That looks like an antique design.

[dfariswheel]

If it is a design or reproduction of a design from before 1898 it is not classified as a firearm as are most blackpowder guns. That looks like an antique design.

That only applies to muzzle loading firearms and guns actually MANUFACTURED before 1898.

For that reason, the replica 1873 Colt single actions and the replica Winchester lever rifles are considered to be modern firearms.
And so would that piece of junk.

[janobles14]

you can pay the tax on a weapon and have it classified as a smooth bore handgun. i have an 870 that is 13" overall. fun little nugget!

[orphanedcowboy]

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g45/Orphanedcowboy/Guns/SS870.jpg

don't even ask.............. :evil:

[Sam1911]

It would appear that the barrels are rifled, which is what makes this a pistol rather than a short barreled shotgun.

Actually, the barrels are rifled, which is what makes this a pistol rather than an "Any Other Weapon". AOWs include several different thing, including all smooth-bore handguns.

-Sam

[MachIVshooter]

If it is a design or reproduction of a design from before 1898 it is not classified as a firearm as are most blackpowder guns. That looks like an antique design.

Muzzle loading guns are not considered firearms regardless of vintage.

Pre-1898 guns that fire fixed ammunition ARE firearms, but are antiques, and so not subject to the same regulations as standard title I firearms.

Reproductions of pre-1898 guns are title I firerams.

ETA:
Reproduction firearms that do not fit title I criteria are NFA items (SBS, SBR, etc.) I have not personally invetigated the status of antique firearms that fit under NFA classification, as my C&R would cover such guns as a shoulder stocked C-96 Mauser anyway.

[sheepdog]

...regardless of what the BATFUs call it...or what ********** says about it...down here, that's referred to as "One BAD MammaJamma!!!" I wish they made them in 20...I'd say they were worth all the paperwork and get one...not sure my old wrists could stand much of it in 12...

[PTK]

Muzzle loading guns are not considered firearms regardless of vintage.

Pre-1898 guns that fire fixed ammunition ARE firearms, but are antiques, and so not subject to the same regulations as standard title I firearms.

Reproductions of pre-1898 guns are title I firerams.

ETA:
Reproduction firearms that do not fit title I criteria are NFA items (SBS, SBR, etc.) I have not personally invetigated the status of antique firearms that fit under NFA classification, as my C&R would cover such guns as a shoulder stocked C-96 Mauser anyway.
C96s aren't NFA, the BATFE specifically exempted them if using an original stock and original handgun. It has nothing to do with having a C&R FFL. :)

[Sam1911]

I have not personally invetigated the status of antique firearms that fit under NFA classification, as my C&R would cover such guns as a shoulder stocked C-96 Mauser anyway.

C96s aren't NFA, the BATFE specifically exempted them if using an original stock and original handgun. It has nothing to do with having a C&R FFL.

There are several short-barreled rifles (like the C96 and some factory original Winchester and Marlin lever-actions) that are specifically exempted from Title II status -- and they're listed by serial number.

Other C&R guns, like a great number of antique machine guns, are still registered as Title II firearms. The C&R FFL doesn't exempt you from that.

-Sam