Ar nube needs advice!!


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MRPAPA
December 12, 2009, 05:47 AM
I have been a gunslinger for 32 years. I was 7 years old when I got my first sears .22 semi-auto rifle and since that day I`ve been hooked. BUT...I have very, very, very little experience when it comes to the AR`s.:confused:
What I need to know:
1- I want a .308 caliber because I can`t use the .223 to hunt in my area..Is the .308 common?
2- I want a 22-24" stainless steel fluted barrel..is this possible?
3- I would like a model that I can change the caliber or add and change parts easily..which model would you suggest?
4- What would be the perfect model and combination for both target shooting and hunting...about 400 rounds per month on average.
5- Where do I need to shop?
6- How much money?

One other thing...Could you guys show me some pictures of what you have?? Thanks

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skidooman603
December 12, 2009, 05:58 AM
DPMS I own the .308 Sportical which is a shorter Barrel. Great Rifle. They make a longer version. Great customer service. Little under $1000 now that prices have moderated a bit. Plenty of pre-owned ones out there now that the frenzy has somewhat subsided

MRPAPA
December 12, 2009, 09:49 AM
Thanks for the info. I hope that there are more people out there that can help me with some of the details.

iamkris
December 12, 2009, 10:17 AM
My answers/opinions:

What I need to know:

First question I have is...what are you going to hunt? What yardages will be common? Are you stalking or stand hunting?

1- I want a .308 caliber because I can`t use the .223 to hunt in my area..Is the .308 common?

Yes, you can find .308 caliber AR platforms no problem...but just be aware of a few things:

1) you are going to be stepping up to an AR-10 platform rifle which means that the basic rifle will be much heavier than an AR15 (roughly 2 lbs -- skidooman's rifle will be a bit less). As long as you know that, fine, but just don't expect AR15 weight

2) Are you sure you want only a 308? If not, you can get other calibers in the AR15 platform. The following calibers fit in this action length: 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .458 SOCOM, 450 Bushmaster, .50 Beowulf. All will take deer easily in the 150-200 yard range.

2- I want a 22-24" stainless steel fluted barrel..is this possible?

Have you ever picked up an AR with a 22-24" barrel? It isn't like a hunting bolt action with that length of barrel...these are typically only put on varmint rifles and thus they are bull barrel config...AND HEAVY. Very heavy. Even fluting will not bring them down to a weight you are used to. You will likely need to have the barrels turned down by a gunsmith. You don't need a barrel this long for any of the calibers we are talking about...they are optimized for 20" or shorter

3- I would like a model that I can change the caliber or add and change parts easily..which model would you suggest?

You really only have 2 choices...the AR15 sized platform and the AR10 platform. Remember, these differ based on the length of cartrige family. AR10 will take calibers like .243 Win, 308 Win, 260 Rem, 6.5 Creedmore, 7mm-08. There are only a couple of manufacturers making AR10 platforms and for the most part, DPMS is the primarily supplier of rifles/parts in calibers other than 308.

If you want lots of choices, go with AR15 size. AR10 will have a fraction of the availablilty if you are really wanting to mix-n-match.

4- What would be the perfect model and combination for both target shooting and hunting...about 400 rounds per month on average.

Unanswerable question. 100,000's of posts have been wasted on the internet, millions of hours in garages and billions of beers have been expended discussing that question.

There is no right answer...and the opinions will be like a-holes...everyone will have one and they will all stink.

My stinky opinion: If price, weight and cost of ammo were no object, you will do a lot worse than a 260 Rem or 7mm-08. In the AR15 platform, I'd go 6.8 or 6.5.

5- Where do I need to shop?

Like the rest of us...surf the internet. Check the boards, marketplaces, watch the auction sites...blah, blah, blah. If you have money to burn, go straight to a store and order.

6- How much money?

Unanswerable...you can get in bargain basement for a complete rifle for well under $1000. Depending on options and parts, you can easily spend over $2K. I just built from parts a "basic" 18" 5.56 AR with high quality parts that were exact to my needs...probably have $1500 in it.

By the way, I'm not bashing the AR10 size platform at all. Just sounds like you may not know much about these rifles and need to be aware of the tradeoffs. If you absolutely need the power, then you need to go for it

Here's a decent "overview" article on the different options. http://www.arshunt.com/arshunt/200910#pg23 Also, American Rifleman just had a AR hunting article in it...November 2009





http://i49.tinypic.com/nx28tt.jpg

The Herd


BOHICA A2 upper on DPMS lower, .50 BMG
J&T 24” varmint upper on DPMS lower, 5.56x45mm
WOA DCM upper on Rock River lower, 5.56x45mm
CMT upper, 18” WOA barrel on AeroPrecision lower, 6.8x43mm SPC
BCM 18" on DPMS lower, 5.56x45mm
J&T M4-gery upper on DPMS lower, 5.56x45mm
Olympic Arms upper on DPMS lower, 9x19mm

Taurus 617 CCW
December 12, 2009, 10:24 AM
I would seriously take a look at the Lewis Machine and Tool 6.8 platform with the quick change barrel set up. You remove two screws, pull the barrel out, and you have a new caliber. Of course you also have to change the bolt. The LMT can be found here http://www.lewismachine.net/store.php?cid=8&session=4aca430d22280b9eb0f83d346ff19fbf

MRPAPA
December 12, 2009, 11:27 AM
iamkris, absolute wonderful information and be-a-utiful collection you have there!! Though seldomly found, every once in a while you can find someone on these forums that has a wealth of information and doesn`t mind sharing. Thanks a million.

Who`s next?! This is great.

MRPAPA
December 12, 2009, 11:30 AM
sorry for the double post. Website froze up

Brimic
December 12, 2009, 12:03 PM
1- I want a .308 caliber because I can`t use the .223 to hunt in my area..Is the .308 common?
2- I want a 22-24" stainless steel fluted barrel..is this possible?
3- I would like a model that I can change the caliber or add and change parts easily..which model would you suggest?
4- What would be the perfect model and combination for both target shooting and hunting...about 400 rounds per month on average.
5- Where do I need to shop?
6- How much money?

1&2 will make for a rifle heavier than you'd want to carry. You would need an AR-10.

3. AR-15. You can switch between a highly accurized .223/556 upper and a much more powerful upper for hunting (6.8 rem, 6.5grendal, .458 SOCOM, .450 Bushmaster, .50 beowulf, 7.62x39, etc)

Edit to add: If you are hunting in wide open areas, the 6.5 and 6.8 s would probably be the best choices in an AR-15, if you hunt in areas where most shots will be under 100 yards, any of the above will do fine. If you hunt where its cold, get a collaspable stock to fit you when wearing hunting clothes/jackets, you might find an A2 stock too long.

4. See point 3 above.

5. Depends on what you want. IF you are handy with tools and have enough skill to put legos together, buy a stripped lower from a gunshow, gun shop, or online wholesaler, assemble the lower yourself with parts kits bought online. They you can order any upper that you want shipped to your door.

5. The sky is the limit. I have nearly $2000 in my High Power competition rifle. (of course I went about it the hard way, buying a Bushmaster 20" rifle, then later rebarreling, adding a freefloat tube, modifying the front sight base for windage zeroing, and adding better sights.)

The last carbine that I put together cost me:

$100 for the stripped lower (Superior arms).
$60 for lower parts kit (Del-ton)
$70 for collapsable stock (Tapco)
$375 for the upper. (Del-ton)

That was long before the 'Obama' rush, don't know what prices or availability are these days.

Texpatriate
December 12, 2009, 02:01 PM
1- I want a .308 caliber because I can`t use the .223 to hunt in my area..Is the .308 common?
The 7.62/.308 "AR-10" is not common in comparison to the 5.56/.223 AR-15. The AR was originally designed for the 7.62 NATO round, but at the request of the DOD (McNamara), the Stoner design was downsized for the 5.56/.223 round. Therfore, most civilian AR's are patterned after the 5.56/.223 AR-15 design rather than the original AR-10 design. As a result 95% of parts and aftermarket accessories are made to fit the AR-15 rather than the AR-10, they are not interchangeable.
Also, the AR-10 platform seems to be more plagued with reliability issues, mostly due to a poor magazine design. A good AR-10 without the reliability isses would be sweet to have, but I have personally stayed away from them because of the reliability issues and the difficulty in finding parts & accessories. A good AR-10 type rifle will be much more expensive than a good AR-15. The only 4 companies that I would personally look at for .308 AR would be Lewis Machine & Tool (LMT), LaRue Tactical (http://larueosr.com/), Knight's Armament (http://www.knightarmco.com/images/sr25.html), and Noveske (http://noveskerifleworks.com/cgi-bin/imcart/display.cgi?cat=75) . All four will cost a pretty penny, upwards of $2K. For the above mentioned reasons, I have personally chosen to stick with the 5.56 NATO and 6.8 SPC rounds in the smaller AR-15 platform.

2- I want a 22-24" stainless steel fluted barrel..is this possible?
The Larue Tactical is available in 16", 18", and 20". The Knight's Armament SR-25 is available in 16" and 20". The Noveske N6 is available in 12.5":evil:, 14.5", 16", 18", and 21". The LMT won't be released for at least another couple of weeks and I don't know what barrel lengths they are offering. Other companies that make a .308 AR are out there (DPMS, RRA, etc.) and will have other barrel lengths available, but personally I would not be interested in any of their offerings. If I remember correctly from the last time I looked at 7.62/.308 ballistic data, a barell longer than 20"-21" would be superfluous.

3- I would like a model that I can change the caliber or add and change parts easily..which model would you suggest?
With the AR-15 platform you would be able to change calibers simply by switching out upper recievers (two pins which push out with finger pressure). I don't think you will be able to switch calibers so easily on a .308 AR, simply because I don't think anybody (that I know of) is making other caliber uppers to fit on a .308 lower.

4- What would be the perfect model and combination for both target shooting and hunting...about 400 rounds per month on average.

Of the above mentioned models, I would say any of them with a 18"-21" barrel.

5- Where do I need to shop?

All of the above listed makers sell their own products on their own websites. Other places to look for their products would include the websites of Bravo Company USA, G&R Tactical, Ranier Arms, and a handful of other sites. You will not find their products in most gun stores.

6- How much money?

Lots. Probably in the $2,400 range for any of the models I've listed.


Like I said, it would be nice to have a good quality (read: RELIABLE) 7.62/.308 AR rifle, but I have personally not found it to be feasible financially. For this reason I have chosen to stick with the 5.56 and the 6.8 SPC rounds in the smaller AR-15 platform. I use the 5.56 for fun, training, and home defense. The only reason I own the 6.8 is because I find it to be a superior deer hunting round, similar to a lighter .270 win.

Arkansas Paul
December 12, 2009, 03:06 PM
Remington makes a 7mm-08 on the AR platform. Don't think you can switch anything around though. You won't beat the round for most hunting situations though IMO.

MRPAPA
December 12, 2009, 04:42 PM
Remington hasn`t made the AR type firearms for very long have they??

iamkris
December 12, 2009, 04:53 PM
Remington hasn`t made the AR type firearms for very long have they??

They aren't "Remington" rifles, but rather Bushmasters with a Remington logo on them. Freedom Group, aka Cerberus, owns Remington, Marlin, Bushmaster, Cobb, and several other gun companies. They are just cross-marketing. Remington covers the hunting and defense markets.

Maverick223
December 12, 2009, 07:55 PM
What you think you want is a AR-10 chambered in .308...what I think you really want is a AR-15 chambered in 6.5Grendel (medium range, moderate power), .458SOCOM (short range, thumper), or 7.62x39 (short range, medium power, cheap). Either of the aforementioned platforms will serve you well depending upon range and whether you reload or not (if the answer is "no" the x39 is your best bet, and have the side benefits of being cheaper to purchase, lighter, and have the ability to have a cheap to shoot upper in .223/5.56 for target/varmint, whilst maintaining sufficient power for deer.

:)

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