Which 223 Die Set?


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uf-engineer
December 12, 2009, 09:39 PM
I just purchased a Rock River AR15 and am looking for a die set. I was looking at the Lee 3 die deluxe set and the Lee Pacesetter 3 die set.


Any recommendations?

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45ACPUSER
December 12, 2009, 09:44 PM
Get Redding Regular Dies and order the carbide expander ball, makes things slicker then snot. Get some Imperial Die Wax.

StretchNM
December 12, 2009, 10:11 PM
Go with the Lee Deluxe Set. That will come with these dies: full-length sizer, collet neck sizer, and bullet seater. If you think you may want to crimp at some point, you can order the factory crimp die seperately. I think it's $12 or $13 from KempfGunShop.

When I buy rifle dies anymore, I order only the Deluxe set, and get the Factory Crimp on the side. This die comes in handy for accuracy in some loads.

taliv
December 12, 2009, 10:28 PM
what kind of ammo are you making? match ammo? blasting ammo?
what kind of press do you have? single? progressive?

Doug b
December 12, 2009, 10:52 PM
+1 to what 45ACPUSER said,the carbide expander stops a lot of headaches.With the Lee deluxe set you are getting 2 dies that are just about worthless for an auto-loader,the collet die will work if you want to risk neck sizing for your AR but only for 2 or 3 re sizes then the work hardened brass will spring back to much for adequate case mouth tension.The dead length seat die will work but will not crimp you will need a separate die for crimping if you intend to crimp.

Avenger29
December 12, 2009, 11:05 PM
I'd also like a recommendation for a good die set for .223, for producing blasting (i.e, the cheap 55 grn and 62 grn FMJ fodder) and semi precision/combat loads (i.e, I want to load 77grn Sierra Matchkings to make some quasi Mk262 loads).

If I were to purchase one of the standard Redding Die sets along with a carbide expander die, what else should I add to enable me to get a good crimp?

45ACPUSER
December 12, 2009, 11:09 PM
Redding has a Taper Crimp Die.

uf-engineer
December 12, 2009, 11:28 PM
I have a LNL progressive. I'm also looking at powder. Considering TAC.
Blasting Ammo. AR15 with a 16" barrel & 1:7 twist.

StretchNM
December 12, 2009, 11:44 PM
I amend my earlier post. Get the Pacesetter dies. I realize that you will not need the Collet Neck Sizer with your auto-loader. For that, you'll want to full-length size. And.... the Pacesetter det includes the factory crimp die. For best accuracy, the Factory Crimp die in a seperate operation will work best. What it does, in addition to crimping, is to help re-center the neck on the case and maintain concentricity while crimping.

Sorry about that Deluze/Pacesetter thing. I wasn;t thinking clearly about the auto-loader.

Doug b
December 12, 2009, 11:44 PM
Avenger29 this is what you are looking for http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/sizebuttons.html it's not a die but and add on to your Redding (also fits RCBS)die.Standard seat die from any manufacturer will give you a good crimp except for the Lee dead length seater.

Don't get me wrong here please, I'm not down on the dead length seater it loads a darn concentric round, and because it is adjusted down to the shell holder it gives plenty of room for those with large hands to put small bullets into a case without interference from the press frame.

rfwobbly
December 12, 2009, 11:58 PM
I have a LNL progressive.

If you want to load 223 progressively, then you got to get around the trimming step. There are 2 ways to do that I know of: trim in the press using a press with more positions than 5, or use the RCBS X-Dies which negate the need for trimming after the first time. (Of course the X-Die plan doesn't work if you loose all your brass each time you go shooting.)


I'm also looking at powder. Considering TAC.

TAC works really well in the press and the RRA guns. And it was the least expensive powder in my study of 15 powders that would load a 223 to 2900 FPS.

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 12:05 AM
Get Redding Regular Dies and order the carbide expander ball, makes things slicker then snot. Get some Imperial Die Wax.
That is what I did, but I also have a Forster seater die for loading target ammo.

Redding has a Taper Crimp Die.
Got that too. It is much more forgiving than the roll crimp in the Redding seater. I used to roll crimp all my blasting ammo, but would end up with a few slightly buckeled shoulders from inconsistent spacing of cannelures in cheap bulk bullets, and have switched to the taper crimp for crimping cheap bullets in blasting/plinking ammo. The slight buckle was hard to see with the naked eye, and would run just fine in most guns, but not in guns with tight chambers.

45ACPUSER
December 13, 2009, 12:06 AM
Progressive loading of rifle cartridges is a misnomer. Too much detail work involved.
Ideally you will feed the press brass ready to load. Meaning you have cleaned, FL sized, dealt with primer pocket crimps if applicable, trimmed, chamfered, deburred, and removed sizing lube.

45ACPUSER
December 13, 2009, 12:08 AM
Remember for uniform crimps you really need uniform case length.

uf-engineer
December 13, 2009, 12:20 AM
is this the redding die set you are talking about?
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=307180

Doug b
December 13, 2009, 12:27 AM
Nope you don't need or want the neck size die for an auto loader.

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 12:32 AM
Nope - This one (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=592925)

I like mine, but would be just as happy with an RCBS set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=440502). I use my Forster set (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=184923) to load target stuff.

Doug b
December 13, 2009, 12:33 AM
Walkalong you beat me by about a half minute.

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 12:35 AM
Gotta be quick sometimes. :D

Doug b
December 13, 2009, 12:42 AM
I blame it on DSL.

rfwobbly
December 13, 2009, 11:00 AM
Can't blame it on DSL.

Walkalong lives at the end of a dirt road leading off the "information super highway". :D

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 11:14 AM
My phone and internet still come in on a single strand of copper wire on glass insulators. When it gets cut, sometimes I am out for 3 days before Ma Bell can find me. :D

Cable actually.

Free speed test site (http://speakeasy.net/speedtest/)

Montgomery Al to Seattle Washington:

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Another speed test site (http://www.speedtest.net/)

Montgomery Al to Atlanta Georgia: 150 Miles:

Download 6.55Mbs, Upload .30 Kbs & Ping 44 ms this morning.

uf-engineer
December 13, 2009, 12:57 PM
Thanks guys. Would I need anything else? Crimp die or something other than the two die set?

Thanks

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 01:40 PM
The seater will roll crimp. Unless you want to taper crimp, you are set. Many don't crimp .223 at all. SHTF ammo should be crimped, for the same reason military ammo is, IMHO.

45ACPUSER
December 13, 2009, 02:13 PM
Just remember that unless you have uniform case length trying seat and crimp with a seater die is an excercise is fruatration looking for a place to you perturbed. Get a Taper Crimp Die and crimp as a seperate step.

Redneck with a 40
December 13, 2009, 02:27 PM
I bought the baseline 2 die set from lee, I think they are called the RGB's? They only cost me 14 bucks, I added a factory crimper for another 8 bucks, so all told its only 22 dollars. These work great for my mini-14.

rcmodel
December 13, 2009, 02:27 PM
(i.e, I want to load 77grn Sierra Matchkings to make some quasi Mk262 loads). Not gonna work unless you have a 1/7 twist barrel.

Most AR's come with a 1/9, and they won't handle 77 grain MK's.

rc

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 02:28 PM
You need uniform case length and uniform cannelures for good consistent roll crimps. Not just little marks, but an actual cannelure. There must be some indentation to roll a case mouth into. Many cheap bulk 55 Gr FMJ bullets have very inconsistent (where they are on the bullet) cannelures. Good quality bullets do not have that problem, but for plinking/blasting most of us buy the cheap stuff.

Avenger29
December 13, 2009, 08:14 PM
Not gonna work unless you have a 1/7 twist barrel.

Most AR's come with a 1/9, and they won't handle 77 grain MK's.

My LMT has 1/7 twist, brought specifically for being able to run the heavier/longer bullets.



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