[Cosmose]

i don't understand... most users of the 1911 seem to have problems and complications with getting their pistol to work right. now i must say that i haven't been able to afford one. and haven't had the chance to fire one( maybe that's why i don't understand.) it seems to me that my ruger p95 (for $350) is more reliable and less problematic than most all the $800 dollar 1911's that i've read reviews on.
now i know the 1911 has been around for deacades and has a great following but it just seems that they are more guns with a cheaper price tag that are more hassle free and reliable and the last thing i want to do is buy a new gun and have to take it to a gunsmith just to make it work right. (should'nt it work right when it leaves the factory?):confused:

seeing how the 1911 was designed for fmj is that the reason for so much feeding problems? granted the1911 is the most eye appealing auto and the ones i have picked up at guns shows have a real good feel but if i can't rely on it to work when i need it than i just as soon to have a sharp stick:what:
no offense to the 1911 die hards , maybe i'm ignorant seeing how i have had no experience with them, but i just don't see how they replacedthebigbore revolver in the early days nor how it can out preform the modern auto of today
thanks a penny for your thoughts

[10-Ring]

I'm with ya for most of what you've said (wait, here it comes...) but there is just something about a 1911 that is working properly, that has been properly built & adjusted that is just tough to describe. I think that is why I too have been on my quest to find the right one for me :D

[TarpleyG]

I've owned two of them in my life. Still own them. One's a Kimber and the other's a Norinco. Had a plunger tube fall off the Kimber (after 5 years) and had to replace the extractor on the Norinco. Not too bad by my estimation since they both get shot quite a lot.

Please realize people will post almost every thing negative they encounter but almost never post the positive. When's the last time you read a post by someone just saying how great a day they're having? When's the last time you read a post about how lousy a day has been???

GT

[BigG]

I think there is a lot more complaining than is warranted. It's the Internet and it's free, ya know. Since the late 1960s I have had a couple dozen Colts and one US Model of 1911A1. All of which worked perfectly.

[bountyhunter]

They are like the reverse of marriage:

They can be a lttle cranky when new, but settle into being 100% perfect after the break-in period.

[Graystar]

What you’re missing is that you are not talking about a single gun, like a Glock 17 or Ruger Mark II. 1911 style pistols are made by many manufacturers. Also, there are a LOT of 1911s out there. I’d guess there are more 1911s out there than any other gun ever made, and by a wide margin. So you’re more likely to hear about problems with 1911s simply because there *are* so many of them.

In addition to the fact that there are millions of 1911s out there, the 1911 is the most worked over gun out there. There’s an entire aftermarket industry built on this gun. Because of that, these guns are worked on by lots of gunsmiths…and not all of them know what they are doing. So you end up with a lot of guns that have issues, not because they are poorly designed, but because they have been modified by a person that doesn’t understand their operation.

I’ve purchased two 1911s. One was a Spingfield Mil-Spec…one of the least expensive you can get at $425 or so. The other was a Rock River Arms…a match quality gun that cost a thousand bucks more. Both work flawlessly.

[Sean Smith]

Proposition: I know nothing about the object in question; my ignorance of the subject is total.
Conclusion: I am convinced that it sucks.

;)

The 1911 is a design. It is made in a mind-melting variety of models by maybe a dozen major and minor companies. As combat weapons, the original military specification weapons were famously reliable. Commercially available copies have varying degrees of reliability based on the maker, materials used, cost, and so forth. Depending on these factors, a 1911 can be as reliable (or more so) than any of the "modern" handguns on the market.

An awful lot of these guns just plain work, internet rumor-mongering notwithstanding. And when they do, they have superior accuracy, trigger pulls, and ergonomics than anything that ever had the Ruger name stamped on it. :)

[George Hill]

Oh yeah? Try to put some nice custom wood grips on your P95...

:uhoh:

Seriously, I hate Ruger automatics... They feel chinsy to me. They feel unbalanced. I've also seen a cat buy one and have it break the first time he jacked the slide. The store gave him a new one - and that new one broke too...
Yeah, Ruger makes a solid automatic...
:rolleyes:

[StuporDave]

Like others have said, if you had a dozen different companies making copies of your P95, some would be good, some would suck, some would be so-so.

I've got two 1911's. My Kimber (series 1) runs like a top and always has. I also have an early Charles Daly. It was problematic when new, but it was also a cheap gun. A little gunsmith tweaking and it too runs like a top.

To really make your comparison valid, you'd have to get specific.

Comparing your P95 to my Daly when I got it is one thing.

Comparing your P95 to my Kimber is something else entirely.

Dave

[Black Snowman]

I think one of the big draws of the 1911 design is the incredible potential of the trigger pull in a double-connector single action design. You can get trigger pull in a 1911 gun that's very difficult to rival with almost anything else.

Of course that's potential. Like folks say. Some are good, some not so much. But you have the option of getting one that cost from around $300 for a Llama up to as much as you want to spend. I've seen ones for well over $5,000 for various reasons.

It's also a gun with history. That's a big plus to a lot of people.

I'm not a 1911 fanatic but the Kimber Stainless Target II I rented was definately a nice gun.

[dsk]

30+ years ago you would never have heard about unreliable 1911s, except from revolver fans who flat out mistrusted ANY semi-auto. The current complaints all arose from Colt's QC slide in the 1970's and the introduction of cheap 1911 clones on the market at around the same time. Since then some manufactures have upped QC, while others started out good and went downhill as demand picked up. The result is that new-production 1911s have become something of a crapshoot. For example, if you get an early Calackamas-marked Kimber or a recent Colt 1991 you'll likely have an excellent piece. I've seen recent Springfields that were put together very nicely, and others that were plain horrible.

Personally, I place the blame on the labor used to assemble many of these guns. Some folks at the factories know what they're doing, while others apparently need to be constantly reminded which end of a file to hold. The 1911 you buy will either work or be a dud depending on how many of the latter employees assembled your gun. The main reason why Glocks and SIG's always work is because their parts are designed to be made in cookie-cutter fashion with little chance for human screw-ups.

[Deepdiver]

Have 3 SA 1911A1's and had a Colt Combat Commander (early 70's). All work or worked flawlessly, but I also kept them all stock except for screwing around with different grips, and polishing the barrel ramp).

I have several other semi-autos from different mfg's, as well. They all perform as designed, and I like them. BUT, none of the them feel as natural and balanced in my hand as a 1911. That is the "way of it" for us 1911 afficianados.

[BevrFevr]

Ruger Autos :barf:

1911's can be sweet and they can be ????e. Rugers are reliable, Reliably mediocre that is. I'll never buy another ruger automatic. :barf:

At least with a 1911 there is a chance, however small, that it will be both accurate and reliable. But even the ugliest nastiest 1911 ever seen is better looking than any Ruger. :barf:

-bevr

[CWL]

It is the "most users of the 1911" part of your posting that I have issues with. Simply not true and as much an uninformed generalization as 'ceramic glocks which will defeat airport metal dectectors.'

Think about the sheer number of m1911 pistols manufactured in almost 100 years, by dozens of companies, -the quality will differ. Add to this the fact that many owners self-customize theirs like a teenager chops their first car, and you can see that there will be many lemons and self-made lemons in the overall pool of m1911s out there.

Bottom line though is that the M1911-style of gun is simply one of the best designs of pistols ever.
However you look at it, engineering, reliability, caliber (.45ACP), accuracy, ease of use, safety, speed of use, trigger feel, etc. Many other great pistols out there have several of the above features, but I how many have ALL of the above?

You Ruger is a great gun and design (I had one), but the size and trigger doesn't compare to my 1911s.

[mattjoe]

I imagine a lot of problems people have are from their own mistakes, be it reloading, or tinkering with their guns and making modifications they aren't qualified to.
I screwed up my 45 this year because I way overtightened the extractor. My mistake, forgot the setup differs from my 38super, which likes the tight extractor. Simple solution, pull the extractor out halfway, apply pressure out the other way, loosen it up, stick it back in, and it's worked fine since.
Reloads, that's another problem for some people, be it them not loading right, or using the wrong type of ammo. I see that every single weekend from the same people. Some people insist on trying semi wadcutters out of barrels that aren't made to feed those right. Some need to use round nose. Others load way down to try to get a soft shooting gun, and dont match the recoil spring to the light load, so they get stovepipes.

I've got 5 1911's, they all work, i'll be getting my 6th next year. I need an SVI.
http://www.freepichosting.com/Images/103304/0.jpg
There's the 5, the Para 38 super, the Caspian 9x23, para p14 limited, springfield/caspain 38 super, and the lowly lama 9mm, which actually works fine, just bites my hand a bit when it fires as it's got no wide beavertail.
Only problems getting any of them to work was the Caspian when it was still a 9x21, using really old crummy brass. That round stunk anyway, 9x23 is so much better, and higher quality brass.

[10mmshooter]

I recently purchased my first 1911 from a member of this forum, and after years of shooting Glocks, here are my observations.

1: The 1911 feels sooooo much better in my hand, and draws to point of aim much better than the Glock
2:The fit,and finish of this weapon simply outclasses the Glock...especially with the cocobola grips
3:I am much more confident with the 10mm round that my 1911 chambers, than I ever was with my .40S&W Glock
4:My 1911 is definately equal to my old Glock in terms of reliability, and in fact seems to like HP ammo better than it likes ball ammo
5:The trigger pull on my 1911 is smooth,and crisp. The trigger pull of the Glock was by far my least favorite feature on that pistol
6:The 1911 in 10mm seems to produce less felt recoil...even firing hot loads, than my .40S&W Tupperware did with target loads
7:The 1911 has a flatter profile, and would make a much better CCW than the Glock IMHO
8:After researching the inner-workings of the 1911, I believe that it is safer to carry cocked and locked, than the Glock is with one in the pipe

My 1911 cost more than most "modern" pistols out there, but I believe that you get what you pay for.A cheap 1911 is probably as reliable as a cheap "modern" auto pistol (Ruger). Keep in mind that these comparisons were made against a weapon that is considered to be one of the best "modern" designs in the world today. I would guess that any Ruger pistol would fare even less favorably.
In the end....if a 1911 does fail to do it's job.....the heft of the thing would make it a much better choice than most "modern" pistols for simply beatig the bejesus out of somebody if need be.:fire:

[Justin]

I've had the opposite experience. Really no problems with any of the 1911's I've shot, but the time I had a chance to put a lot of rounds through a Ruger P89 the darn thing jammed continuously.

And don't even get me started on the so-called "target-grade" Ruger MKII that I've shot.

:barf:

However, my experiences with Ruger are probably outside the norm. I've known plenty of people who own and shoot Rugers and have nary a problem with them.

[Parker Dean]

My experiences suggest that the argument of 1911 reliability issues being manufacturer related is true.

I've had two Colts. Both were from what some would consider the absolute worst years to buy a Colt, the mid-Nineties. One was a Stainless Series 80 and the other was an M1991. Both were NIB and both ran flawlessly from day one. I knew nothing of prepurchase inspection at the time beyond looking for obvious flaws so it was basically saw it, wanted it, walked out the door with it.

Fast forward to this year and the Colts are long gone but I'm back into guns and I want a 10mm (I was scouting for a Delta when I came home with the Series 80). Delta Gold Cups look like they're going for over a grand easy, so I decide to buy a Dan Wesson Razorback.

This was the only 1911 I've had that had any issues at all. It was basically a minor issue of a loose extractor, and was quickly fixed by me. The gun runs 100 percent now. The thing is that since DW was new to the 1911 scene they got burned by a minor issue that really shouldn't have hit the streets, and judging by posts over on the 1911 forum this wasn't the only gun affected.

No, this sort of thing shouldn't be acceptable but the frenzy for the 1911 continues unabated and it allows manufacturers to get away with selling improperly operating guns.

[swingset]

Well, I must say that I'm one of those few who have had notable bad experiences with 1911 style guns, and flawless performance from a $290 P89 Ruger.

I have owned 4 1911's. A Colt Commander, a Sprinfield Armory milspec 1911, a Llama full size 1911 style and now a Kimber Target .22. Every one of those guns had reliability issues of some sort, from being picky to being outright problematic. It wasn't an issue of money spent - the Colt and the Kimber were both very pricey. Don't get me wrong, I like the design, the features, etc. but my personal experience has been less than satisfactory.

My P89 has been, and continues to be, the most reliable and unflappable pistol I've ever seen. 8,000+ rounds and it's never failed at all, not even once with every brand of junk I've fed it.

I don't condemn the 1911's design, but my experience will not let me trust one with my life, FWIW.

[Tamara]

I must say, Ferraris seem to need an inordinate amount of attention from a mechanic to stay in proper tune. Why would anyone drive one instead of a Honda Civic?

;)

[Graystar]

I must say, Ferraris seem to need an inordinate amount of attention from a mechanic to stay in proper tune. Why would anyone drive one instead of a Honda Civic? Hmmmm......

That may fly in the car world, where handling, acceleration, top speed, etc. are measures of performance. However, in the gun world reliability IS a measure of performance...and an important one at that. I'd have to say that I don't agree with your sentiment.

[Ky Larry]

We shouldn't forget the original purpose of the Colt .45 Auto. It was designed for military use. What we have today is a far cry from the the first pistols. The manufacturing tecniques and materials originally used are very expensive today. The emphsis was on reliability in combat, not tack driving accuracy. The problems encountered with 1911's today are almost invariably caused by changes to the original design and material. I would be very interested to see a combat condition test between an original 1911 Colt and modern day Sigs,Glocks,Beretta's,etc. When the modern pistols have a century of combat experience in every climate on earth, I'll consider carrying them. Go ahead and flame away.You can argue with me all you want but you can't argue with history.

[Brian Williams]

I have a 1953 Sistema 1911 and it is a very great gun. My only problems were a chamber that was to large and a bad magazine. I got 3 Kimber 8 rounders and an old colt 7 rounder, all work. Cause I reload it was bulging the brass and resizing was a bear, got a used barrel from a fellow THR'r and it dropped right in.


1911 Sistema $325 + 19.50 tax + 5 NICS = $350
3 kimber mags $42
1 colt mag $11
used barrel $40



Total $443


and it shoots, and shoots, and shoots.


but I would rather shoot Revolvers, I hate chasing brass
Got it cause everyone needs at least 1 1911


I do not think I have ever heard anyone say everybody needs a Ruger auto, may be an Old model blackhawk 357, but not an auto

[caz223]

What Tamara said.

[1973]

One thing to take into consideration. Is all too often a person will complain about 1 so-called problem pistol on 12 different forums. That is all too often interpreted as 12 so-called problem pistols. Then 6 people repeat that problem on 12 other forums a piece. We now are up to 84 so-called problem pistols out there. When in reality it's just 1 gun.

A lot of complaints are about minor things that get blown out of proportion. Like a particular pistol won't reliably feed someone's favorite handload. While their other pistols will. Yet this particular pistol handles other tried ammunition fine. So their complaint get exaggerated. Or is interpreted as their firearm not being able to reliably feed any ammunition. Then there are some that have to tinker with a gun right away, before shooting it. By doing this they may mess it up. Instead of leaving well enough alone. Then they say it's the manufacturers fault. Instead of putting the blame where it belongs.

I also don't believe it's a fair comparison to buy two types of guns from two different manufacturers. Gun "1" is troublesome out of the box. While gun "2" runs perfectly. Then have someone spout that ALL gun "1" types are bad. While ALL gun "2" types are the ones to have, and are much better than ALL of the "1" type guns. This theory based on just two guns is in my opinion incorrect. Because another person could buy the same exact guns. Then have the opposite results. Then a third person could buy the exact same guns, and have both run well, or both be troublesome. Now if someone bought 4 of gun "1", and 4 of gun "2". And all gun type "1" are troublesome. While "2" guns ran perfectly. Then it would be easier to backup their opinion that gun type "2" just may be a better firearm than gun type "1".

If I would listen to what others have spouted on the various firearm forums. I would be led to believe my 3 Sig P220 models were way more better than my 3 1911 Kimber Custom Classic II models. When in my experience. They are all equal. No failure to feeds, and accuracy is pretty much the same in all of them. I personally will only comment on my personal experiences. Not what I heard here and there.

With the above being said. I believe that some problems that are mentioned are legitimate. Anything massed produced will have problems from time to time. Especially if the QC is lowered for financial reasons.

[SouthpawShootr]

I have five 1911s (3 Colts, a Kimber, and a Para-Ordnance). Never had any problems with any of them. The draw to these guns is that there are so many accessories that you can configure them pretty much the way you want. I haven't had any reliability work done to any of mine. My Government Model had those crappy GI style sights, so I had them changed out for Bo-mars, a beavertail grip safety, and a trigger job. My Commander and Officer's ACP both sport beavertails grip safeties, as will my Para once I get around to having my gunsmith install it. I might get Novak fixed sights installed, depending on my mood, but that's it. My Kimber TLE is stock and I won't be changing anything (it's been 100% from round one - no break-in).

[Berg01]

Comparing the 9mm P95 Ruger to a .45 ACP 1911 produced by a major manufacturer, is the classic apples to oranges arguement. That Ruger is a good, sturdy piece, that fulfills its intended purpose very well. At its pricepoint, I think a CZ75B is a better direct comparison to the P95, than the 1911. In my own humble opinion, I'd opt for the CZ, but that is my own $0.02, and YMMV.

[Smoke]

Shoot what works for you!

1911's work for me. I currently own 5. I have owned 3 others that I sold.
Of them all only one (springfield Champion) needed any work. And I bought it used, tweaking of the extractor, new springs and its 100%.

Some 1911's need work, lots don't.

[Cosmose]

thanks for all the replies:) i don't see how ya'll can down ruger i own three of them and they all are very well made guns. also i heard that if a 1911 had a extended ejector and if a chamberd round was uncharmberd it could discharge:what:

[10mmshooter]

Not trying to bash Rugers. For the money, they make a decent pistol. I just wouldn't put them in the same ballpark with Glock's,Sig's, Beretta's,HK's,etc.
And I wouldn't really say that those guns are quite on par with the appeal of a high quality,reliable 1911.
While I am sure that there are some high end problem guns out there...I personally believe that in the world of 1911's...you get what you pay for. Not to say that some bargain 1911's aren't out there,because I am sure that there are, but for a nice example of the pistol,in general...I would save my spare change until I could afford to purchase a top of the line pistol. You should have a better first impression of this type of pistol that way.
Also...I don't believe that the 1911 is a very good choice for a newbie to handguns. Not that it's any more difficult to learn with. It's just that it leaves you nothing to look foreward to later. Kinda' like giving a new driver a brand new Caddillac as their first car.:D

[Sean Smith]

also i heard that if a 1911 had a extended ejector and if a chamberd round was uncharmberd it could discharge

Um, no.

[CZ52GUY]

...until I held my buddy's Springer last weekend (didn't even shoot it) and now I must have one.

BTW, my Ruger P95 just keeps shooting 10-rings over and over and over. It's really kind of ugly, but it just keeps working.

BTW, my G22 and G23 just keep eating everything I feed them (although that trigger is still a challenge).

BTW, my CZ-75B still shoots better than me...

BTW, my Mak's are objective evidence that sometimes you get FAR MORE than you pay for...

...but I must have a 1911...I'm thinking a Chuck Daly as a starter and working may way up the ladder from there...

Have a good weekend,

CZ52'

[Missouri Mule]

I have always prefered the 1911 design. Colt, Kimber, Springfield Armory, even Sistema-Colt.
I have tried other designs including single and double action revolvers.

The only revolver Iv'e tried which I truly adored was a 60's somethings Python. It's gone!

Ruger semis leave me cold. How far does that trigger move before the pistol goes bang?

I've shot some Glock 21 I think. Strangest feeling trigger I have tried yet.
I beleive could get used to it, I just don't like it. An each his own sort of thing.

CZ-75B accurate as all heck. Feels good. trigger was really spongy and complicated looking to tweak. I never have liked the 9mm Para round in a full sized pistol. I tried I liked, just not enough, I sold it. Good pistol though.
Mil spec ....wonder if the commercial models have better triggers.....

Makarov..simple, strong, phenomenaly accurate. Bargain priced. Definately one of the most fun pistol to shoot I have ever fired.

Now all I own are 1911 pattern, Colts and Kimbers, and Makarovs.

All this being said....Only you can know what is best for yourself.

The only thing I would reccomend is shoot your buddies springfield.
Then If you like it get one like it. You didn't mention which model it is.

I have learned the hard way to wait a little longer and get what I really want. You will be money ahead in the long run. Beleive me!!!!

[michiganfan]

The 1911 is like carrying history and imagination. It makes you think of war heros and Texas lawmen.

[MaterDei]

I've only got one 1911 style pistol. I've got one of those 1911s that we always hear bad things about, a Kimber Series II. You know, one of those Kimbers made with one of those faulty firing pin block safety things. One that is not a 'Calackamas-marked Kimber' (whatever that means). I have one that was made after demand picked up and QC went down.

In fact, I have such a rotten 1911 I really feel guilty about loving it so. :neener:

MaterDei

[Feanaro]

The first major handgun failure I ever saw was a Glock. That doesn't mean it's a bad gun, far from it. I've seen Sigs, HKs, Glocks, 1911s, Rugers and Smith and Wessons fail. All machines fail, there has never been a perfect machine. And that is what a firearm is. You hear more negative 1911 comments than you hear about other guns because there are more of them. A properly made 1911 will run forever. So will any other well designed firearm. The problem is that there are many manufacturers out there, some good and some not. You get what you pay for. And even the best gun maker will church out a bunch of lemons given enough time.

i don't see how ya'll can down ruger i own three of them and they all are very well made guns.

As many people have run into bad 1911s, I have run into many bad Rugers. But I've run into more bad than good, all from the same company. That doesn't mean they are bad pistols, for I have not seen every Ruger auto out there. But you have to go by personal experiance, so I choose to pay more and get more for that money.

[1911Tuner]

T'was said:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
also i heard that if a 1911 had a extended ejector and if a chamberd round was uncharmberd it could discharge
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sean Responded:
Um, no.

Yes it can...Has happened to me. The pistol was an early 70's production
Colt Commander with standard ejection port and the stock ejector. Those
ejectors had a sharp point on the front end. The ammo was handloaded
with Hornady 230 grain flat point FMJ to hardball equivalent.

The combination of the smaller port and a slightly overlength extractor hook
caused the round that I was clearing to hang up during an overhand
clear, so that I could catch the ejected round instead of letting it hit
the ground. Two or three back and forth movements to clear the stuck round, and BANG! My left hand was blown away from the port. Stunned,
I was afraid to look at my left hand that was stinging like fire. Noticed
my right hand was bleeding. Brass shards from the case had gone down
the magwell and cut the palm in two places, and my pinky had a small
place too. I looked at the palm of my left hand and saw a crescent-shaped
cut about a 16th of an inch deep. The primer was impaled on the ejector.

I figured out what had happened, and after letting my nerves calm down a little, I finished my session and went home. The base of a bullet fit the
cut in my palm perfectly. Evidently the bullet had turned around and hit
my hand traveling sideways/backward hard enough to cut it.

I shortened the extractor hook a little, and opened the front of the port
a bit to let the bullet nose have some extra escape room. I was never
able to duplicate the incident with dummy ammo, and was happy. I
tell the "funny" story 25 years later...but it was UN-funny for about 30 seconds in the spring of '78 when I thought that I had somehow gotten my hand over the muzzle and shot a hole through it.

Newer extended ejectors don't have that sharp point on them. I guess I
wasn't the only one.

As for the reliability of the 1911...If the pistol is in-spec...If you have a
good extractor, use good magazines and good ammo, (and it doesn't have to be hardball) the pistol will so reliable that it's boring, and as long as
it isn't worn out or poorly built, more accurate than the average shooter
can prove without a sandbag rest.

Sloppy manufacturing and inferior small parts are the reasons for the
bad rep that the pistols are getting these days...but it hasn't always been so. I'll go so far to say that unless the pistol is hopelessly out of spec
in several areas, just a little fine-tuning and attention to detail, 2500
rounds without a burp...without cleaning or oiling, would be about par.
95% of the functional issues with a 1911 can be solved with a good
extractor and good magazines...and I can't remember how many
pistols that I've "fixed" for people with nothing more than a good detail
cleaning or replacing a "gorilla strength" recoil spring or worn out mag
spring.

The biggest problem nowadays is that the pistols aren't slated for a war
zone any more. When they were, they had to work. Now that they're
intended for the Nostalgia/Toy market...they don't have to. The good news
is that just a little attention and replacing a few small parts can easily
set them straight in most cases. The more stubborn ones take about
an hour to fix.

Be cheerful and mindful of your six...
Tuner

[71Commander]

1911Turner :

The pistol was an early 70's production
Colt Commander with standard ejection port and the stock ejector. Those
ejectors had a sharp point on the front end.



Now you've did it. I own a early 70's Colt Commander. I hand load using 230 ball. Never knew I had a time bomb. Guess i'll have to change a few things:cuss:

[1911Tuner]

TennTucker said:

. Guess i'll have to change a few things

LOL...It ain't that bad. Just be careful when ya jack the slide back to clear
the chamber. It's not really a problem unless a round gets hung up in the
port. Lookin' back, Idon't remember what the cartridge OAL was. It mighta
been too long to start with.

Cheers!

Tuner

[tc300mag1]

I love how a question turns into ruger bashing.. to each there own

I have a ruger p-90 45
a colt commander
and a Hk usp 45

Are anyof them more accruate that the otheres.. maybe the sights on colt suck so i dont shoot as well with it (soon to be changed)

Reliabilty? had jams with all 3 with that nasty win clean and some handloads.. no gun was better or worse. No broken parts on any of the guns none of them sent out of repair.

But what do i carry? since our state takes such a nasty postion on cocked and locked (seems they thinkif its c&l you looking for a fight ) i carry the ruger or the HK most of the time the Hk.

Why you might ask ? I carried my ruger for 3 years b4 i got my Hk so its not that i feel it wont work if i need it its simple #'s 10 rounds in the Hk mag VS 7 in the Ruger.

Ruger came out with a double stack auto i might even buy one and carry it im not a brand loyalist or design loyalist i buy what i want the new Kimber tactile looks pretty good right now :) So does a Sig..

The 1911 design does feel good though and all the problems you hear about are from the newer series of pistols rather than orginal design..

The orginal design was made for bullseye shooting or 2 inchs at 25 yards it was made to fuction in the worst possible conditions no cleaning for days maybe weeks, being subjected to rain -snow etc etc during wartime that is what it was designed for..

Now all these problems that crop up are from trying to turn it into a bulleyes pistol etc etc.

[BigG]

I've owned one or another 1911 type pistol since 1969. They always have worked and never had any mechanical problems with pistols or magazines. All were Colt.

[vanfunk]

Among my collection of 1911's, both military and commercial, foreign and domestic, I can recall a total of five malfunctions in, oh, prolly 40,000 rounds. Or, to put it another way, a .0125% failure rate. One of my two USGI 1911A1's ('43 Rem-Rand) went through two years of WWII, two years of Korea, two years of Viet Nam and two years with me (arguably the hardest years of its life:p ) and finally stopped working when its original firing pin broke. So I had to suffer the indignity of having to shell out $7 for a USGI replacement:rolleyes: . Does it rattle like a box o' nails when you shake it? Nope, it's pretty tight, really. I'll bet it's "minute of barn door" at 25 yards, right? Nope, it'll run with my SIG P-220 in accuracy, though the sights are a mite hard to see:mad: .

Well, it darn sure won't feed hollowpoints, that's fer sure!

Actually, it feeds Federal Hydra-Shoks and Remington Golden Sabers just fine.

SOOOO,,, what are you saying?

I guess I'm saying that 1911's that are made well, work well. Most 1911's are made well. All of mine were made well and work well. The 1911 is a sound design. I sleep well with a pistol in the nightstand.

I sleep BEST with a certain '43 Remington-Rand in the nightstand.

Though I have some pretty neat dreams with the '76 Colt Commander...


Oh well, I tried:D

vanfunk

[Majic]

One of the biggest problems of the 1911 come from those telling of how you have to spend $$$ on a brand new out the box pistol to make it work and have never owned or better yet even fired one. These experts seem to understand them, but never seem to aquire one.

[Rival]

I own 1911 of recent production. My gun functions flawlessly without me putting a single dime into any tuning or modifications. I paid just under $800 for it with all fees and taxes included (with cleaning supplies and one box of ammo).

[Texasbagman]

thanks for all the replies i don't see how ya'll can down ruger i own three of them and they all are very well made guns. also i heard that if a 1911 had a extended ejector and if a chamberd round was uncharmberd it could discharge

That is kind of an odd thing to say, coming from someone who is bashing 1911's without ever owning one.

I have also owned three Rugers. P90, P94 and P95. The P90 and P95 were solid reliable guns with good ammo. The P94 was a piece of junk. That doesn't mean all Ruger autos are bad.

I've owned several 1911's over the years. Most have been reliable, accurate guns. The only really bad ones were a Springer SS Champion that the slide cracked on, and a Kimber Ultra Ten II that would have been better served as a hammer.

Fact is, there are good and bad in all brands. We just hear about the bad ones more.

[foghornl]

MY 1/50 of $1:

I have both a Ruger KP-90 and a Springy Champion model 1911. With good ammo, both are stone cold reliable.

Only ammo issues I have had were with Rem's UMC brand, and a partial box of American Ammo (Miami, FL home office, NOT to be confused with Federal's American Eagle branded ammo).

[Correia]

My first center fire handgun was a Ruger P91. (at the time gun magazines said that A. .40 s&w was the best thing ever. B. you had to have a DA/SA gun or you were hopelessly outdated).

I shot it a ton. It was very reliable. However I had to work really hard to get half way decent with it. The trigger pull sucked beyond all comprehension, and it was a clunky, poorly balanced, fat monstrosity. But it was reliable.

I wouldn't touch a 1911 with a ten foot pole. All of the gun magazines (seeing a trend yet) told me about how they were super unreliable and needed thousands and thousands of dollars to be good guns.

Then on the day of the very first ever TFL gathering I met a guy named George Hill and borrowed his antiquated Springfield. :p The rest is history.

I have been addicted to 1911s ever since, and a couple of years ago I got serious about shooting in competition.

Try this. Take a Ruger to an IDPA or an IPSC match. Shoot at targets that are going to be scored, and while you shoot you will be timed. For the vast majority of shooters the 1911 is going to be faster on target, more accurate, have better pointability, easier to use trigger, and better recoil characteristics.

The only shooters I ever see in matches with Ruger autos are usually new shooters, and once in a great while you actually find somebody ranked as a marksman or above that uses a Ruger. But they are the rare exception.

The Ruger is just much harder to shoot fast and accurately.

As for reliability, most of the stories about 1911 malfunctions are full of bunk. All guns jam, and the 1911 doesn't jam any more than the others.

[cornbread2]

The 1911 works IF you get a good one.

It works IF the mags are good.

It works IF the extractor is adjusted correctly.

It feeds HPs IF the throat and feed ramp is correct.

The average modern design WILL be all of the above out of the box at a MUCH higher rate than the average 1911.

If the average guy goes into the average gunshop and buys a 1911 or a Glock, Beretta, Sig, Ruger, CZ and so on the 1911 on average is more likely to have a problem OUT OF THE BOX.

You will not have to buy different mags or tune or polish anything to get the modern design to work.

You can blame the 1911 problems on the thousand different makers and different quality control and that is useally true BUT the fact still remains.

A good 1911 is one of the best pistols one can own IF you have a good one.

[eatatjoes]

my inherited .45 has an inderterminate number of rounds through it and still works perfectly with ball ammo. i've used a variety of magazines and had no problems with any of them, even some of the cheaper OEM mags.

heck, i put 300 rounds of wolf .45 through it last week and it worked flawlessly.

i'm betting because it's never had any mods done to it and only gets fed ball ammo, but it works for me 100% of the time.

[1911Tuner]

Cornbread said:

It works IF the mags are good.

Most of the OEM magazine problems that I've noticed in the last 20-odd years have been the fault of the spring, which would seem to be a vendor
issue rather than anything related to the design of the gun. The
other thing that seems to have a bearing on magazine performance is
the recoil spring. Recent trends toward overspringing the gun with the
goal of "protecting the frame" has led to some malfunctions that are
magazine related. Going back to a standard spring usually "fixes"
the problem.
---------------------------------------

It works IF the extractor is adjusted correctly.

That's true of any autopistol. Let the specs on the extractor be just a little
out of whack, and the problems will surface. Seen this issue on Rugers, Sigs, Smith & Wessons, etc. It's not confined to the 1911. Maybe the reason that we don't hear of as many in the other designs is that the 1911s are more numerous and see more hard use. Things do wear out and
fail with hard use. Also, the more recent 1911s are the ones with the extractor problems out-of-box. When I was in the biz, I rarely had to address an extractor problem except maybe to clean the channel or reset one that Joe Shadetree had been dinkin' around with.
-----------------------------------

It feeds HPs IF the throat and feed ramp is correct.

Now, that one may have some validity, but not with all hollowpoints and
not with all pistols. There are thousands of unaltered GI pistols out there
that will shuck Hydra-Shok, Speer Gold Dot and Golden Saber with the
best of'em. I have several that will prove it with boring reliability.
--------------------------------------

You will not have to buy different mags or tune or polish anything to get the modern design to work.

If that were true, the warranty departments of the various makers of
"Modern Pistols" would be unnecessary. The fact is, that if you'll look closely at the "Modern Pistols", you'll recognize Browning's influence
in several areas. There isn't all that much difference.
---------------------------------------

You can blame the 1911 problems on the thousand different makers and different quality control and that is useally true.

Valid. The problem with the 1911 today is that it's become a cash cow,
and the faster they can turn'em out, the more cash the cow generates. Even when things are out-of-spec a little, they can be persuaded
with just a few simple tweaks and attention to small details.

BUT the fact still remains.

The fact remains that the guns did quite well until folks started
"improving" things by trying to turn them into something that they were never intended to be. They all have their problems, mostly due to small
parts issues, the 1911 seems to have more than its share...but I'll stick with a pistol that allows me to service/clean/repair it on the hood of a truck in about 15 minutes without tools. It has withstood the ravages of time and abuse. When the "Modern Pistols" have been around virtually unchanged for a century, still in demand, I'll be more impressed.

I shoot with some guys who are very demanding of their pistols. They
shoot hard, and they shoot often. They also break a lot of guns. Sigs,
Glocks, Smiths, H&Ks...and yes, 1911s. They all break sooner or later.
The difference with the 1911 is that they can usually have the gun up and runnin' in 7-10 days without boxin' it up and sendin' it to the manufacturer.
Care to venture a guess which design is the toughest to break? How does
100,000 rounds without a parts failure sound?

Cheers!

Tuner

[BigG]

I am no authority on these weapons, but a big time enthusiast who recognizes fact from nonsense. Every endeavor has enthusiasts and they all share stories, be it cars, fast women, gambling, sports, or what have you. What I have learned to recognize is people who know what they are talking and the others that are blowing smoke. Most of the talk about the 1911 type pistol is just that - talk, and worth exactly what you paid for it, i.e., nuthin. I'm glad we have real authorities about these weapons who show up and share their hard won expertise with us enthusiasts. Such men as 1911Tuner, Jim Keenan, Old Fuff, Richard Heinie, the late Brian Bilby, and Gale MacMillan gave out advice and still do despite the doubting Thomases who would sometimes try the patience of a saint. To all you guys, a big Thank You! from BigG Anybody I missed, it wasn't intentional!

[cornbread2]

I have owned some exceptional 1911s over the years. I have owned a few really expensive ones that were junk out of the box.

I have owned a few cheaper ones that were very good out of the box.

The best out of the box 1911 I have ever owned was a Colt Combat Elite.

It was the ONLY 100% reliable 1911 I have ever seen.

I have also had a couple of older AMT Hardballers that were very good out of the box pistols for the money.

The Dan Wesson Pointman is a good cheaper 1911.

[1911Tuner]

BigG said:

What I have learned to recognize is people who know what they are talking and the others that are blowing smoke.
-----------------------------------

Who was it that said:

"Education is what allows us to discern when a man is talking rot."
("Rot" being the British equivalent of S**t):D

Mighty welcome BigG...Guys like you...the ones who appreciate it
are the reason that we do it. Though I can't speak for Mr. Keenan and
Fuff, I'd be willin' to bet that would hold true for them as well. Plus it
keeps me sharp when a real poser of a question comes up.

Cheers!
Tuner

[1911Tuner]

Cornbread said:

I have also had a couple of older AMT Hardballers that were very good out of the box pistols for the money.
-----------------------------------------

Well, there ya go! Your luck has simply run backward. The AMT hardballer
and the Safari Arms 1911s were among some of the most plagued
pistols that I ever had the displeasure of workin' on. Awful!

I did learn a lot from htose, so it wasn't all bad. Everything was so far
out of spec that practically any parts replacement turned into a hand-fit
operation...and a maddening one at that!

Cheers!

Tuner

[cornbread2]

The AMTs I had that were go good were back in the days that Colts would only feed ball and Springfield was just getting started. Kimber was not even in business.

That was a LONG time ago.

At the time Colts were so loose they did not shoot so well and had terrible triggers and those tiny sights.

The AMT came from the factory with a good safety and extended slide stop, decent trigger pulls and the slides were tight and the lock up on the barrel was tight front and rear. They also has good sights.

You were correct in saying that most were not so good BUT a few were really good out of the box.

The Safari Arms that I had experience with was the most expensive pieces of junk I have ever seen. It would be hard for even the greatest smiths to get a few of them to run.

Back in the old days I was very poor and I just could not afford to pay someone to fix all my screwed up 1911s so over the years I had to learn to do it myself.

In the beginning like everyone I learned the hard way after screwing up several of my pistols doing stupid things to them while trying to improving them. I screwed up hammers and sears and grip safetys and everything else one could with stones and dremal tools.

After 25 years or so I have made the hobby a part time job.

Now if I start with something half decent to begin with I can turn it into a good reliable and accurate piece.

1911s from the good makers today are MUCH better than some of the old stuff and most of the hand fitting and tuning that I used to have to do is no longer required.

I do like the 1911s and still buy a few now and then but I carry a Glock for serious business