.22 shotshell HD


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twkremer
December 13, 2009, 10:25 AM
My grandfather has a winchester 190, and nothing else for home defense. I was going to get him some hollow points, but i saw at my local wal-mart, they have 22lr shotshells. A good Home defense idea? better than HPs? semi auto auto cycling? Help me out here.

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Brian Williams
December 13, 2009, 10:26 AM
Just get some good hp ammo and leave the rat shot alone.

lions
December 13, 2009, 10:28 AM
Most likely won't cycle a semi auto. If it is absolutely necessary to use the .22 I would say use 40gr. LRN if you can.

MacTech
December 13, 2009, 10:32 AM
No, .22 shotshells are an extremely *bad* idea for HD, first, the shot pellets are *tiny* (these shells are sometimes referred to as "snakeshot"), they're too small to use even on game birds, a single BB pellet from a BB gun is bigger than snakeshot

Secondly, these shells would not be even close to being able to penetrate the FBI mandated 12" of ballistic gel, and that would be just on bare flesh, add some clothing, and you have practically no penetration ability, they would create a raw, shallow, painful wound, potentially angering the assailant

If you're limited to the .22LR, load up with a good hollow point .22LR like the CCI Velocitor

desidog
December 13, 2009, 10:35 AM
Effective range on mice in my basement is about 10' and it doesn't always do the job.
It would just piss off an intruder.

twkremer
December 13, 2009, 10:49 AM
wel how about scaring off a deer? That's another problem he has is that deer eat up his garden. Not safe? would it terribly wound the deer?

Al Thompson
December 13, 2009, 11:02 AM
That might be the only other use for the rat shot - scaring off deer. It will not cycle the action on the rifle, so he will have to run it by hand.

ozarkgunner
December 13, 2009, 12:46 PM
I bought it on a whim. It won't cycle semi autos, pistols or rifle. Very low power. Won't even penetrate an empty 20oz plastic soda bottle at 15 feet. The only thing I have managed to kill were a few mice in my kitchen that were the size of my thumb. At about 5 feet.
Against people, unless you were holding it to their eye or temple. Not affective. At any thing more than 10 feet or so, probly just like a be sting or so. They work well for scaring dogs away that are with in 20 feet. Load pop. Would work for scaring deer, I guess.
I looked them up once, and the only usefull thing I found them used for were for collecting small aminal and bug specimens, like huming birds and the like. At very close range. I don't kow how they killed the mice I shot, as I didn't see any wounds. Maybe it just scared them to death. It did a number on my linoleum. But I'm putting tile down anyways.

madcratebuilder
December 13, 2009, 12:52 PM
I have managed to kill were a few mice in my kitchen that were the size of my thumb.

DUDE!:eek: Take your garbage out and you won't have mice in your house:)

:uhoh:

ArmedBear
December 13, 2009, 12:53 PM
.22 shotshells are fun for shooting soda crackers, not methhead Crackers trying to rob you.:D

zhyla
December 13, 2009, 01:37 PM
JHP... but due just get him a cheap .38 or something else that's decent. Rimfire cartridges themselves are unreliable enough to be avoided for defense purposes.

scchokedaddy
December 13, 2009, 02:23 PM
Have used them for years to kill snakes,only problem is you usally wind up shooting them 2 or 3 timesw. But in swamp while fishing they are better than nothing. Got older and slower so I went to 38 shotshells,much better now 1 shot and little further shots. Now a little older <funny how that works> and slower I bought Taurus Judge 410/45 long colt, definetly more distance and 1 shot kills even on GROWN ones. Yes noise will work for deer till they get used to it, they aint as dumb as we sometimes think they are. Find old short barrelled revolver for most noise. Will also send dogs home where they belong,and run coons and possums off. But they wont have any effect on a doggone armidillo, them things are tough. Well thats my 2 cents worth
Good Luck and God Bless

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 02:36 PM
.22 Mag shot shells are not even impressive on snakes. They would be very poor for self defense.

fireman 9731
December 13, 2009, 03:00 PM
The Winchesters pack a little more punch than the CCI shotshells.... But for HD, get some CCI velocitors or stingers.

rcmodel
December 13, 2009, 03:04 PM
.22 shotshells probably do have enough punch to blind a crackhead a few feet away.

Just be prepared for his lawyer to lead him into the courtroom wearing a nice suit, dark glasses, and carrying a white cane when he sues you for everything you have or will have for blinding him!

rc

sheepdog
December 13, 2009, 03:11 PM
...:D:D:D:D OUCH!!!...Good one!!!

...the .22 Mag HP is a right smart defense load, especially if he can pump a few into them...but even .38 snakeshot isn't good for defense...

Quiet
December 13, 2009, 03:14 PM
Your grandfather using his rifle as a club will do more damage and be more effective than the .22LR shot shells.

chief
December 13, 2009, 03:23 PM
Back in the 70's I worked a domestic disturbance where a Vietnamese immigrant popped 6rds. of .22 birdshot at a couple of "homeboys that were stealing his bike from in front of his house". They rode away laughing and we had to take his revolver because he had no ideal of the threshold for deadly force. He was very lucky the guy at the swap meet sold him that crap. (And I guess the thieves were too.)

natman
December 13, 2009, 06:19 PM
No, 22 shotshells are NOT suitable. They are barely suitable for killing mice and then only within about 10 feet. They use a small amount of #12 shot, which is called "dust shot" for a reason.

R.W.Dale
December 13, 2009, 06:30 PM
No, 22 shotshells are NOT suitable. They are barely suitable for killing mice and then only within about 10 feet. They use a small amount of #12 shot, which is called "dust shot" for a reason.
+1 Ive used these on mice and sometimes a follow up shot was required

mgkdrgn
December 13, 2009, 08:09 PM
Next to useless. Be lucky to penetrate a decent winter coat.

If you want to go 22 ... at least go 22 magnum. Some very decent revolvers in 22 mag.

Nicodemus38
December 13, 2009, 08:21 PM
strange, i can get 40gr winchester 22lr hv through a woodchucks chest at 20 feet and it doesnt always die. i can hit a woodchuck at 30 feet in the garden with a single cartridge of cci #2? birdshot and it drops and merely flails for a few seconds.

however the big problem is that they normaly fail to eject in a 10/22. and normally in said weapon the case expands into the forcing cone, sticks and bulges the head of the case such that the entire bolt pops of cartridge. and requires much work with a woodchip to remove it.

Geno
December 13, 2009, 08:40 PM
I wondered when I would use this target. Of course a rifle or carbine will extend the pattern a bit, but even at the muzzle (1" distance) out of a rifle, the shot shell did not penetrate a paint roller pan.

The attached target is 5 rounds of CCI .22 Mag Shotshells at 10 feet, fired from an NAA Mini-revolver. I also fired an additional 3 rounds of CCI .22 Mag Gold Dot Maxi Mags into it at the same 10 feet. Those are the three holes near the target's center.

I carried this combination specifically at the advice of my Advanced Tactical instructor who advised that as a last measure, to assure that we marked the fleeing target. As he clarified, "Dead men do talk. Three days after the perp is shot, either go to an emergency room for treatment, or he'll die of a sepsis, and the police will link him death back to his attack on you."

Anyhow, back to topic, pattern and penetration is my point. I would never trust my life, to this stuff. I know...handgun versus rifle. Like I said above, but even at the muzzle (1" distance) out of a rifle, the shot shell did not penetrate a paint roller pan.

http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k368/OhWowPictures/22Shotshell.jpg

hometheaterman
December 13, 2009, 08:55 PM
Ok I bought some of the CCI .22 shotshells to just see what they did. Not only would they not cycle the action in my 10/22 they didn't do much else either. I hung a Pepsi can from a tree branch. I shot from about 10 yards and thought I saw the can move but when I got up there the can didn't have any holes or anything. I thought how in the world did I miss.
So I stepped up to about 10 feet from the can and shot. This time I clearly hit the can. When I went up to look still no holes. I took the can down to look and it had little light dings in the can where the pellets had hit but they didn't even penetrate the Pepsi can.

No way I'd ever trust that for home defense.

JamisJockey
December 13, 2009, 09:08 PM
wel how about scaring off a deer? That's another problem he has is that deer eat up his garden. Not safe? would it terribly wound the deer?

1.All guns are always loaded (until you establish whether they are or not).
2.Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. Keep your gun pointed in a safe direction at all times: on the range, at home, loading, or unloading.
3.Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target (and you are ready to shoot).
4.Be sure of your target. Know what it is, what is in line with it and what is behind it. Never shoot at anything that you haven't positively identified.

In other words, never shoot anything you're not willing to destroy or kill. The .22 rat shot would be an immoral choice for scaring off deer, and is probably against your game laws anyways. Maybe buy him some fire crackers to light and throw at the deer. Or a whistle. Or maybe some rocks to throw at them.

WatongaJim
December 13, 2009, 09:09 PM
I'd take a good pellet gun over .22 shotshells anyday, although they are fun to shot at about 10 feet (not yards!). If one really needs a decent snake shot or maybe a min SD around the farm, it's better to start with a .410 shotgun.

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 09:13 PM
I have shot them at a moccasin 2 feet away from me in the water. Three rounds from a NAA and it left, but it wasn't dead, or seemingly even hurt. That is when I bought a .44 Spl and switched to .44 shot shells. They kill em graveyard dead.

Maverick223
December 13, 2009, 10:15 PM
Rat/snake shot is marginal for rats, stick to HV HPs for HD, and get pops a good .30-06 to scare away the deer. :D

WatongaJim
December 13, 2009, 10:42 PM
Maverick223 a good .30-06 to scare away the deer.
Today 08:13 PM

Yeah, scare the deer right into the stew pot.

Maverick223
December 13, 2009, 10:45 PM
Yeah, scare the deer right into the stew pot.Yep, just make sure to check local ordinances and game laws first.

:)

bad_aim_billy
December 13, 2009, 11:52 PM
A buddy of mine used to use them on bats in barns, said they worked great for that.

But for home defense, a good quality high/hyper velocity would be the ticket.

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