[Skunkabilly]

For those who wear armor, which level do you wear and why?

While we're at it what do y'all think of the Second Chance Monarch Summit?

:D

[Kevlarman]

I've heard that it's prudent to wear the level of body armor that will stop the gun that you are carrying. Apparently, a lot of officers are shot with their own gun or something. That said, level IIIA will stop 9mm at 1450fps (yikes!) and .44 magnums.

That said, I have a Monarch in level II and an older Second Chance in level IIIA. The level IIIA is noticably stiffer and more uncomfortable than the Monarch, but I assume that's because of the older technology in the panels.

Monarch is very comfortable. I have no doubt that the Monarch Summit will be even more so. And yeah, try to stay away from anything but Kevlar for now, until the armor companies can sort through the problems with the other materials.

[Andrew Wyatt]

ask around on lightfighter. they seem pretty knowledgeable on that stuff.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

The newer Monarch Summits are more comfortable because they are made to just barely pass the NIJ certification. Second Chance seems to take the position that a vest that is borderline but comfortable will at least be worn more often.

Check around and research, two vests with the same NIJ threat level rating can have vastly different performance. Pay particular attention to V50 numbers where they are offered and check out Tactical Forums\MD Labs\... lots of info there

[David]

For what's it is worth, my friend, a recently retired LEO, wore a agency issued Safariland vest in Level II for years -- and he liked it.

He carried on 9mm on duty, and the vest was rated to stop the 9mm round he was issued.

:scrutiny: :what: :uhoh:

Just my 2 cents...

[Kevlarman]

Exactly what Bart said. Richard Davis (pres of Second Chance) is always touting how blunt trauma is a myth and won't keep you incapacitated. To prove this, he shoots himself in the chest at point blank range and immediately acquires a few bowling pins behind them and picks them off.

(Older) NIJ certification meant that the backface deformation (dent) in the clay block the vest is mounted to cannot exceed 44mm. Anything more (even if the bullet doesn't penetrate) is considered a failure Second Chance vests probably come pretty close to hitting that mark.

So in essence, the thinner vests are indeed lighter and more comfortable to wear, but it'll hurt more on the off chance you get shot. :)

Check out the database to see test results on a whole slew of armor:
http://www.nlectc.org/BatPro4/batSearch.asp

[Frohickey]

Is Richard Davis still doing that? :uhoh:
Or has he slowed down?

[Kevlarman]

Dunno if he still does it now, but in the video I have of him, he says that he uses a phone book under the vest for padding now, since his cardiologist told him too. I guess the hundreds of times he's shot himself have taken its toll.

Or maybe he just eats a lot of junk food. :confused:

[Roadkill Coyote]

I have both (my agency will kick in for a new one every five years). I got the IIIA as soon as I could, and then after it the end of its five year warranty, picked up a level II (which I'm in the process of replacing over the Zylon issue :rolleyes: ). Since Kevlar vests like my old IIIA have tested out fine past ten years, as soon as my replacement II comes in I'll be back to having a choice. I'd like to have three. Periodically, I try to figure out how to break loose with enough money to pickup a newer lighter IIIA, I just haven't come up with a good enough plan. If I had to make do with only one, I would choose IIIA, but having a lighter, cooler vest for the hot months is a blessing.

When you think about it, the price of a vest isn't too differant from the price of a quality firearm. Its personal safety equipment, just like your guns. So how come so many people have three or four pistols, five rifles, but only one vest? :confused:

[Double Naught Spy]

A buddy of mine owned a motorcycle. He had two helmets. On days where things went poorly at work or school, he wore he $10 garage sale helmet because as he said, he felt like he had a $10 head. When thing went well like when he got a raise, he wore is $350 Bell full face (keep in mind, this was back in 1988).

Since, as is often the case, you have provided ZERO information for the context of the use of the product, nobody here can give you a good answer on what YOU need since you failed to provide information on your needs. Since all we have are levels of vest, one maker, and also the corresponding differences in price, then all I ask you is whether you feel like you have a $10 head or a $350 head (1988 values).

Smart people buy the best possible protection they can afford relevant to their financial and safety circumstance. Don't get trapped by the 2nd Chance name. It is a premium price for a good product. You can get comparable products for a lot less money from other makers.

[TechBrute]

So how come so many people have three or four pistols, five rifles, but only one vest?
Not speaking for anyone, but I would assume it's because they wouldn't wear the vest, making it wasted money. Something about my frame makes any type of vest noticable. Not something that you'd want if you're in sales or some sort of person that is in the public view. IE "Why is that grocery store cashier wearing a bulletproof vest? This must be a bad place to shop, I'll go somewhere else." Why is my car salesman wearing a bulletproof vest, his prices must be really bad if his customers want to shoot him. I'll go somewhere else."

[Skunkabilly]

The problem is shopping for things you haven't even seen in person before. Not like guns where you can try them out at a range.

[TechBrute]

Oh come on Skunk... I'm sure you can find someone to help you test the vests. :D

[Kevlarman]

I volunteer! :D

[Roadkill Coyote]

Not something that you'd want if you're in sales or some sort of person that is in the public view. IE "Why is that grocery store cashier wearing a bulletproof vest? This must be a bad place to shop, I'll go somewhere else." Why is my car salesman wearing a bulletproof vest, his prices must be really bad if his customers want to shoot him. I'll go somewhere else." How many threads can you find here on THR that deal with adjusting our wardrobe around our guns?:evil:

Roadkill Coyote's Thought For The Day: Remember, hockey fans go around wearing shirts that were designed to wear over body armor every day, and nobody notices... :neener:

[Erik]

I really like my ABA Extreme Level II vest. But, alas, it is on it way out, being 4 years old and change.

My agency just purchased a zylon based Level III vest, which I believe we will be returning shortly. I'm not quite sure what the replacement vest will be.

---

Definitely wear a vest which will stop the round chambered for your own pistol.

[feedthehogs]

Remember, hockey fans go around wearing shirts that were designed to wear over body armor every day, and nobody notices...

Nobody notices .......... because they don't wear armor under the shirt and it hangs down and conforms to the unpadded body.
You sure as hell can tell the difference between a padded hockey player and a fan just wearing a hockey shirt.

Anyone short of a moron will know if you wear body armor under a shirt.

[Double Naught Spy]

NO sir, that is not correct. While it apparently sucks in longevity, I have seen folks in a polo shirt, under shirt, and IIA zylon vest and you don't know they are wearing the vest unless you really look or you touch them and notice the bizarre resistence that isn't body tissue. The polo shirt was a normal polo and not a lightweight t-shirt and it was a darker, opaque color. The example I refer to is of one of the instructors at Thunder Ranch. I didn't know he had armor on. Neither did most of the other instructors, until a conversation came up about the armor that I was wearing, only I wasn't concealing mine and mine was IIIA and made of older type kevlar. With mine under a shirt, you would have to be a moron not to notice, but for the newer stuff and lessor rating, it can hide VERY WELL.

[Jake 98c/11b]

Rich still shoots himself.

V50 is a scientifically valid test, NIJ standards are not.

Newer body armor can be very concealable under street clothing. The top end Second Chance stuff (for example) in their T-shirt style carrier is easily concealed. Like Double Naught Spy said you have to grope the wearer to notice.

[TechBrute]

Not that it has anything to do with this post, but Rich was on Tactical to Practical last night on the History Channel. They had some old-school footage of him shooting himself, and some more recent stuff, too.