Speer 45 shot capsules?


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MMCSRET
December 13, 2009, 04:44 PM
I'm looking for info, opinionated or actual experience with loading Speer 45 shot capsules in 45 ACP cases or 45 Auto Rim cases for use in a revolver chambered for these two cartridges, specifically a late model Colt New Service. I haven't had any luck perusing the more recent Speer manuals.
Any tips?

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Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 04:47 PM
Never tried them in .45, but the .44 capsules work very well. Deadly on snakes at ranges up to 10 feet or so.

Walkalong
December 13, 2009, 04:48 PM
Oh yea. Weight the capsule when full, and use load data with that weight in mind. It will be light for the caliber.

rcmodel
December 13, 2009, 05:08 PM
I think I ran into a problem when I tried it a long while ago.
The problem you will have is, being able to seat them deep enough to fit in a magazine.

The internal wall taper of a .45 ACP case starts just at the base of where a 230 grain FMJ-RN would normallly end up.
I can't speak for a .45 AR case as I never tried those.

The .45 Colt shot capsules are longer then a 230 FMJ, and will stick out more, so may not fit in the magazine or barrel.

Shouldn't be a problem in a revolver though.

rc

ljnowell
December 13, 2009, 05:10 PM
So can you use a powder charge weight equal to the weight of charge from a reloading manual with something like this? I was thinking of trying it myself, possibly with my blackhawk in 45 colt.

rcmodel
December 13, 2009, 05:14 PM
If you buy the CCI shot capsules, the suggested powder charges are printed on the box.

Also, Speer #14 reloading manual includes a chapter on loading them in .45 Colt.

Older manuals only covered .38/.357, .44 spl, and .44 Mag.

In .45 Colt, you can use:
6.0 - WW231 = 925 FPS
7.5 - Unique = 975 FPS
5.7 - Titegroup = 920 FPS
5.5 - 700-X = 915 FPS
5.5 - Bullseye = 875 FPS

Just not all at the same time! :D

rc

sheepdog
December 13, 2009, 05:16 PM
...anyone know if the factory Speer .45ACP shotshells will cycle the action???

rcmodel
December 13, 2009, 05:20 PM
They do in some guns, and not in others.
I have one 1911 that will, and one that won't.
The 9mm works in a Model 39 S&W and a SIG P6.
My Glock 23 .40 cal, sometimes.
You just have to try it.

I would guess if you are running an extra-power recoil spring they might not.

rc

sheepdog
December 13, 2009, 05:30 PM
...thanks...will do...

MMCSRET
December 13, 2009, 05:30 PM
I plan to use them in a New Service chambered for 45 ACP, I've used them successfully in a 45 Colt NMBH and many 38/357 and 44's over the years.
Just got a hankering to pick opinions about using them in the N.S.
Where in #14 did you find data, all I found was general info on page 761, chapter 16. The box of capsules I have does not have load data, no problem, I know how to develop loads, just looking for opinions, valid or not, and experience.

Randy1911
December 13, 2009, 05:42 PM
You might want to measure the diameter of the capsule. I bought some 44 capsules and measured them and the box said .429 but they measured .419. They would easily slip all the way down into the case. There was no way to get them to seat at the required OAL. I called Speer and asked them and they said .419 was the proper diameter of the capsule.

I have had friends tell me that the 45 shot capsules (factory loaded) worked just fine for them.

I killed two snakes a couple months ago with 38/357 shot capsules. In just 3 shots it turned both of them into hamberger. They were ones that I had loaded with #8 shot and W231 powder.

Vacek
December 13, 2009, 07:43 PM
Here is how Ed Harris did it.

From: Ed Harris Submitted: 18 Feb 93 21:59:00
Subject: Instructions for Loading Status: Public
RE: Instructions for Loading Shotshells

Instructions for Loading the .45 ACP Shotshell

Complete instructions for reloading the .45 ACP shotshell
appeared in American Rifleman, April, 1976 p.20. This article was
reprinted in the NRA reprint on The .45 Automatic, which may be
obtained from NRA Books.
To briefly summarize the article, cases should be made from
.308 Winchester or 7.62 NATO cases, using the RCBS trim die
provided in the die set. Use of .30-'06 cases or others which have
a narrrower extraction groove may cause extractor breakage, and is
not recommended. Cases should NOT be annealed because the
extractor will tear through the rim, due to the mouth obturating
into the rifling upon firing.
The correct powder charge is 6.2 grs. of Olin W-W231. I do
not recommend any changes to the powder charge other than minor
adjustments in the order of +/- 0.2 grain to obtain reliable
functioning. No other powders are recommended.
The correct wad is the Remington SP410 shot cup used for 1/2
oz. .410 bore skeet loads. No other wad may be substituted. Seat
the wad firmly over the powder charge using a dowel and a few light
blows with a plastic mallet, then trim the wad off flush with the
case mouth using a sharp knife. A shot charge of 105 +/- 5 grains
of No.8 or #9 shot should be measured with a Lee No.065 dipper.
The Lee dipper numbering system has been changed since the article
originally appeared, so you may have to improvise a measure to
throw the correct amount of shot.
The top wad is a 7/32 or 10mm disk cut from .005" thick
acetate plastic "sheet protectors" from an office suppy store.
You can use an Osborne punch from the hardware store or make your own
punch. The plastic top wad should be sealed with lacquer.
Velocity is about 1200 fps in the M1911A1 pistol. Typical
patterns are 70% in a 15" circle at 25 feet, with an average of
10 pellets in a 5" diameter target, simulating a small game
animal. This is the maximum effective range for this shothell
on snakes or small game.
For defense use larger shot up, such as 28 pieces of No.4, may
be used, and a single piece of 00 buckshot crimped in the case
mouth in place of the top wad. The buckshot does not impair the
shot pattern, but will string out ahead of it. The single buckshot
will hit within 8" of point of aim at 25 feet and #4 shot will
penetrate a 3/4" pine board at this distance.
The shot load, when correctly prepared, will function the
Government Model pistol semi-automatically, so that a shotload
can be carried in the chamber, with service loads in the
magazine, and the pistol fired immediately in an emergency
without having to extract the shotload. You should, of course,
fire enough of these loads in your own pistol to ensure they
function reliably, as with any handload.


Regards, Ed

suemarkp
December 13, 2009, 09:03 PM
I've used them in both cases for revolvers. What are you looking for -- loads, shot payload, how well they work?

The capsule is small in OD. This is because it rides the barrel grooves. You don't want it to engage the lands/grooves, or else the plastic cup would be shredded. You don't neck expand at all for these, and you'll have to crimp them too.

In a semi auto, you don't use the blue capsules. Instead, you need the special die which reduces the mouth down to .451 OD instead of the normal mouth diameter. I used 45 Win Mag brass instead of 308 -- it is thinner, easier to work, and holds a bit more shot. The rifle cases split too easily for me.

MMCSRET
December 13, 2009, 09:14 PM
Now; I asked for opinions and got instructions for making and forming special purpose ammunition from rifle cases. I'm not making special purpose rounds, I'm using Speer/CCI 45 caliber shot capsules(BLUE), and they will not fit inside new unsized R-P 45 A.R. cases without expanding the case mouth. I have loaded 38/357 and 44 Speer/CCI blue shot capsules for many years, as well as T/C Hotshots and I have a box of the old REM-SHOT capsules also. All I wanted to hear was opinions or experiences using the BLUE SPEER/CCI 45 capsules in 45 ACP or 45 Auto Rim cases to be fired in a Colt New Service revolver.
I asked for the time and got instructions on how to build a clock.
I thank all of you for your time and effort.

rg1
December 13, 2009, 09:59 PM
The factory Speer 45ACP shotshells cycles my Glock 21 perfectly. I only loaded the 1st round with the shotshell followed by a standard 230gr HP round. The factory Speer shotshells have an all aluminum case with the case having a profile like a standard bullet.
Here's a random picked site just to view the 45 acp factory 117 grain shotshells: http://personalsecurityzone.com/cgi-win/order/prodlist.exe/PSZ/?Template=ProdDetail.htm&ProductID=19055

ljnowell
December 13, 2009, 11:57 PM
If you buy the CCI shot capsules, the suggested powder charges are printed on the box.

Also, Speer #14 reloading manual includes a chapter on loading them in .45 Colt.

Older manuals only covered .38/.357, .44 spl, and .44 Mag.

In .45 Colt, you can use:
6.0 - WW231 = 925 FPS
7.5 - Unique = 975 FPS
5.7 - Titegroup = 920 FPS
5.5 - 700-X = 915 FPS
5.5 - Bullseye = 875 FPS

Just not all at the same time!

rc


Thanks RC! Thats some good info.

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