Rem 700pss


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nexus6
November 10, 2003, 04:54 PM
Hi. Im new here by the way. :)

I have a question. Do you guys think its worth almost $1000 to get the Accuracy International A4 Stock for my REM 700PSS?

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WalkerTexasRanger
November 10, 2003, 05:03 PM
Welcome. No. We shoot straight here.......

Black Snowman
November 10, 2003, 05:14 PM
Ya, I'm gonna vote no on this one as well. For less money I'd rather have a custom stock made to fit me.

nexus6
November 10, 2003, 05:23 PM
my bad its the Accuracy International AICS 1.5 Long for $704, does anyone have this setup or has had experience shooting with this setup?

XxAR10xX
November 10, 2003, 07:45 PM
It's seems like a lot of guys over on the snipers hide forums like this stock as much as - if not more than - the McMillan A4 (which is supposedly the creme de la creme) If and when I get a PSS I'll eventually drop it in a AICS 1.5 chassis. I believe bedding is optional with this stock, and the reliable detachable 10rd mag is a big plus.

nexus6
November 10, 2003, 07:50 PM
so if i do decide to purchase this, do i just send my rifle off to A.I. for it to be installed? Or do they just send the chassis for me to take to the gunsmith?

Sactown
November 10, 2003, 10:33 PM
I think I remember reading that from AI that you can drop in your receiver and barrel and start tightening up all those screws. If i remember correctly you drop the action into some kind of aluminum block or something and then the actual plastic stock pieces screw in.

4v50 Gary
November 10, 2003, 10:47 PM
Before you drop $700 or so bucks, try it with the factory (HSP) stock. If it shoots good, why change?

BusMaster007
November 10, 2003, 10:53 PM
Welcome.

My opinion is NO on the stock change, especially for the $.

I dropped my 700 Police into a Hogue pillar bedded stock to get a good grip and lighter weight without the bulk.
It's really nice in that stock.
The full bedding block version would be nice, too, but, the HS Precision stock the gun came with has one already.
I was going for something different and definetly got it.

If you've got the inclination and/or the money, though, go for what you want and be happy!:cool:

Roadrunner
November 10, 2003, 11:19 PM
Stick with the "stock" stock and put the money into your optics. The only modification I did to my stock was dumping the thin recoil pad and replaced it with a Pachmayr recoil pad.

nexus6
November 11, 2003, 12:03 PM
I already have a great scope, i have a Leupold Vari-X III 4.5-14x50mm Long Range M1.

762x51
November 11, 2003, 12:05 PM
Not a fan of the AICS. I would much rather have a McMillian A2 or the new A5.

Steve Smith
November 11, 2003, 12:06 PM
Keep your old stock and use the money for ammo or reloading materials.

ocabj
November 11, 2003, 12:42 PM
If you don't already have a Badger base and rings for your scope, get those before you buy a stock.

As far as a stock, what are you going to do with it? If this is just a benchgun then the AICS will be fine if you have money to burn. If you want a field weapon, get a McMillan. From what I understand, the AICS is heavier and bulkier than other stocks. I think the HS Precision stock that the 700P/PSS comes with is a good stock. If you haven't abused it yet, you should sell it. You should be able to get a couple hundred for it.

bogie
November 11, 2003, 03:20 PM
Oh, fahchrissake!

It's a "tactical" stock, so it's worth all that $$$?

Be serious. Get a good McMillan stock, and a good scope, and you're set.

But keep in mind that if you wanna throw $700 at that rifle to make it shoot better, you'll be best off keeping the factory stock, and having a benchrest-quality gunsmith (likely NOT the fellow down at your local gun shop - sorry...) true up the action and install a match-grade barrel with a tight chamber.

Get some steel epoxy and the release agent of your choice, and bed it into your factory stock, and you're set.

uglygun
November 11, 2003, 05:35 PM
Don't think that the HS Precision PSS stock can't be improved...


The thing can likely benefit a bit from a bedding job, maybe lose another 1/4 MOA or tighten up the first round cold bore shot to be a little closer to the rest of the normal group. The "V" channel in the aluminum block is good for centering a round bottom action in a fairly consistent manner but it can benefit from a little improvement, maybe relieve a little stress point here or there.

I can't recall if they call it "skim bedding" or exactly what the process is but I do see claims of improved accuracy simply by having the factory supplied stock bedded with something like MarineTex or similar powdered metal bedding compound.


I'd say keep the stock until the entire rifle is ready for a rebuild, then while the rifle is in having it's action trued and a new barrel installed then you can throw a new stock on it. After the rebuild you're gonna have to work up a new load anyhow.

In the short time, 700 dollars could go towards improving the bases/rings or upgrading the scope and support gear. For example if you have a mil-dot scope but have yet to get a Mil-Dot Master for the low entry fee of 20-30 dollars, by all means do that first.

nexus6
November 11, 2003, 05:37 PM
that was great tip uglygun thanks!

Mute
November 12, 2003, 03:14 PM
I've tried all the McMillan and HS stocks and I've tried the Sako TRG as well. My top choice is still the AICS. However, stock fit is really subjective. So to answer your question...yes and no.

Yes, I would get the stock.

No, I would not pay $1000 since you can find it for half that price.

And no, it isn't just a benchrest stock. It's tough enough for field use and may in fact be even tougher than the stocks from McMillan.

bogie
November 12, 2003, 03:27 PM
Yeah, but remember - you can pretty it up in all sorts of ways, but it'll still be an action with factory tolerances (the "pss" doesn't "go through" the custom shop), and a factory barrel. Talk to an accuracy smith like Billy Stevens.

hillbilly
November 12, 2003, 03:33 PM
I want to ditto Bogie on the action truing.

I have a Remington 700 Varmint Synthetic.

It is essentially the 700 PSS in a slightly different stock.....with narrow forearm instead of the big, flattened beavertail forearm.

Instead of a new stock, I put my money into optics (Leupold 6.5-20 with Gen 2 Mil Dot reticle) and mounts, rings, and action truing.

My Remington 700 PSS with the regular, usual "sporter stock" on it will, if I do my part, shoot five shot groups at 100 yards that I can cover with a dime.

I have gone through two "sniper" courses at Badlands Tactical with that rifle.

http://www.badlandstactical.net

Get that action trued. It's worth every single penny.

hillbilly

Mute
November 13, 2003, 12:28 PM
Ditto the above. Send gun to George Gardner. Have action trued and blueprinted.

Gewehr98
November 13, 2003, 10:41 PM
Just take the darned thing out first, in it's original stock, after torquing the action screws to 65 inch-pounds. Who knows, it may shoot sub-MOA just like that! (Like mine did, and several others I know of first-hand...) ;)

Steve Smith
November 14, 2003, 10:17 AM
I agree with Gewehr98

bogie
November 14, 2003, 12:12 PM
Sub-MOA?

So?

Give it to an accuracy smith, who is used to working at benchrest-quality tolerances. Realize that quarter-MOA is generally considered "not good enough" in the benchrest world.

Tell ya what... You bring your "sub-MOA" rifle, and I'll bring a rifle that's been worked to benchrest tolerances (not even a custom action - I'll bring my Savage that was worked over by Paul Dorsey (truing) and Billy Stevens (barrel). Bring money.

STONER
November 14, 2003, 06:51 PM
Uglygun,

Hate to show my ignorance, but what is a "Mil Dot Master". Thanks in advance for the edification. :o

Gewehr98
November 14, 2003, 10:00 PM
But he's a benchrest shooter. If his guns don't group inside 0.20-0.29", they get a new barrel. If they don't group inside 0.10-0.19", it's a bad day at the range. ;)

Bogie, I know where you're coming from, but what I was trying to say is that for less than 800 clams, the 700PSS, or it's even-cheaper twin with a different stock, the 700VSS, does exceptionally well at putting first-shot, cold-bore rounds where the crosshairs say they should go. SWAT teams (Remington's intended market for the 700PSS) don't want benchrest guns, they want guns that go quickly from arms rooms to police vehicles to improvised positions for that one important shot - although they'd love to have benchrest accuracy, especially with department-issued ammo. Nor do they have the budgets to buy Rocky and Norm Chandler's M40A1 clones, let alone their 700PSS tune-up. Is the Savage 110-based Tactical series a good deal? Sure, it is, and I'll be the first to say they're under-rated.

Sub-MOA is considered just fine for a tactical bolt gun, be they military or law-enforcement. Sure, 1/2 MOA is nicer, and 1/4 MOA is even nicer, (more nicer?) but at the typically close ranges that law enforcement teams engage targets, the extra cost and care involved in getting issued firearm accuracy down there in the .10's and .20's is offset by the real need for that extra accuracy.

Will a box-stock 700PSS or Savage 10FP ever achieve the accuracy potential of a Hall, Nesika, Borden, or Stolle? Nope, not even on a good day. It isn't really that much of a problem, though, for the trained users of the issued 700PSS rifles to engage the bad guy's medulla-oblongata at 100 yards, even if the gun is "just" sub-MOA.

Now, truth be known, I skim-bedded my 700PSS action in it's standard H-S Precision stock. I adjusted the factory trigger down to 4 pounds, but that's all the bling-bling I've done to it. Does it produce benchrest-quality groups? Nope. But it will place my 168gr handloads into a group that will get the job done:

http://mauser98.com/pssgroup.jpg

http://mauser98.com/ard1x.jpg



My current project is something that will make the benchresters cringe, and the AR-15 folks scratch their heads. It's a wildcat 6.5mm PPC on a pre-ban Oly Arms 20" rig, a total sleeper, using M16/AR-15 magazines, with A2 upper, bayo lug and flash suppressor.

BTW, here's the Mil-Dot Master:

http://www.mildot.com/images/milmst.jpg

Mil-Dot Master (http://www.mildot.com/)

TechBrute
November 14, 2003, 11:11 PM
If this is just a benchgun then the AICS will be fine if you have money to burn.
I don't know how to say this politely, but the AICS is anything but a benchrest stock. First of all, it's rugged as a tank. Secondly, the shape of the fore-end would make for a crappy benchrest stock. The AICS is absolutely top notch for a field rifle.

That said, it's overpriced and I wouldn't buy one.

Harold Mayo
November 15, 2003, 01:21 AM
Nice accuracy, but I noticed something else...

Kennedy Space Center Range? How cool can you be...? You just went up a notch or two in coolness in my book.

Gewehr98
November 15, 2003, 10:09 AM
They closed it for "lead contamination" last January. KSC and NASA say it will be at least two years before it opens again. Meanwhile, KSC and Cape Canaveral Air Force Station employees like myself have to go elsewhere to shoot rifles and shotguns. Serious bummer, most of my long guns haven't seen daylight or use since then. I just sit here at the reloading bench making more ammo instead of going to the range. :(

Harold Mayo
November 15, 2003, 04:08 PM
It's just a neat idea. I used to be a big space-nerd when I was a kid and loved anything and everything that had to do with space travel, whether it was reality or science fiction, and I guess that I still retain a little of that bright-eyed little boy...:(

uglygun
November 15, 2003, 04:20 PM
STONER,

if you have a scope with a mil-dot reticle, the Mil-Dot Master is a little piece of gear that virtually takes all the math out of using the Mil-Dot reticle. It's nothing more than a nice little slide rule that matches your estimation of the target in mil-readings with your estimate(or known value) of the target size,the output is the range of the target in yards or meters(metric system compatible).


Just 2 weeks ago I went out with a friend to get in a little quality shooting with my PSS that I bought a few months back. I wanted some long range shooting so my friend and I went out to create a make-shift range out in the hills. Just for the heck of it, I wanted to work with relatively unknown distances to test my ability with the mil-dot reticle while using the Mil-Dot Master. I set up a target frame with a piece of 8x14 legal paper for ranging purposes and a 4 inch square aiming point drawn in the middle.

After driving back to the other side of the valley I set up to start taking some estimates, once I got into it I managed to come up with an approximation of close to 500 yards. I dialed my elevation and was just a tad bit low but that is likely due to my handloads not yet managing to duplicate the 190grn SMK at 2950fps. It only took 1-1.5MOA of adjustment on the scope turret to make point of impact match point of aim, that took maybe 2 shots to accomplish and from there I was able to start breaking clay pigeons at 500 yards(making hits about 1 shots out of 3)...

Here's where it gets cool. My friend whips out his GPS unit and marks my shooting position as waypoint number 1, we then drive to the target frame to check my 5 shot group size I fired(group size bordered right at 8 inches for the 5 shot group, decent but not great), my friend marked the target frame as waypoint number 2. The distance between waypoints was .28 miles, doing the math for that yields 495 yards when converted. NOT TOO SHABBY! Even if the GPS unit was rounding up from .275 or down from .285, I probably wasn't off by much more than 10 yards give or take.


Mil-Dot Master is an amazingly simple little thing and makes the mil-dot reticle work like an ever lovin charm, even better it helps make things go by fast.


I've only tested this 300WinMag on paper at distances beyond 100 yards on 2 different occasions, both of which being out close to 400-500 yards. I've been pretty impressed with the simplicity of being able to make quick and accurate hits at longer distances thanks to the Mil-Dot Master in combination with the mildot reticle. Now to just work on my handloads a bit more and throughly test them at both short and long range.

TechBrute
November 15, 2003, 04:21 PM
Hey, Gewehr98... did you get that PSS in CA? It looks EXACTLY like a rifle I built about a year ago at Precision Arms. Of course, there's probably a lot of custom bedded 700 PSS rifles with the OD speck paintjob from H-S Precision... ok, maybe not a lot, but more than one. :D

STONER
November 15, 2003, 08:18 PM
Uglygun,

Thanks for your reply, and story. Sounds like a very worthwhile accessory . Today was talking to a buddy about it & he explained what it was. In the mail today also got new "Dillon Press". Showed they sell it, for around $29.00. I'll be ordering one soon.

Thanks again, and happy shooting. :)

Gewehr98
November 15, 2003, 11:37 PM
My 700PSS did come from **********. Well, sort of. The green stock came from the Placer County Sheriff's Department, they went to the McMillan A-3 series, so their H-S Precision stocks ended up being sold as surplus. I have no idea how many of the green ones H-S produced compared to the black ones, but it did look business-like.

STONER, if you're gonna get a MilDot Master, which I highly recommend (I have one myself) then you should also get one of these:

http://www.ballisticards.com/images/rifle_card4.gif

They're BallistiCards, created especially for the owner based on their caliber and load data. Very handy tool if you're not up to memorizing your ballistic range tables.

BallistiCards (http://www.ballisticards.com)

bogie
November 17, 2003, 12:56 PM
My Savage isn't a "tactical" one - It started as a $200 Wally World Scratch & Dent special (some idjit knocked off the front sight on a display .243).

$150 (or maybe it was less - I dismember...) for getting Paul Dorsey to make sure everything was square.

$75 for a takeoff (coupla hundred rounds, didn't shoot to the standards of a benchrest hall of famer) HV contour barrel.

$150 to have a benchrest smith cut off the PPC chamber, and rechamber it to 6BR (0.262 neck).

Still need to put a decent trigger on it, but the factory one has been diddled with enough that it breaks at about 1.5 pounds, and is safe.

Steve Smith
November 17, 2003, 04:33 PM
I am really holding my tongue here.

First of all, Nexus6 asked if she should get the AI stock or not...that's ALL he asked. Now, I'm all for giving him the most for his question, but we are way off on a tangent here. Nexus6, if you are interested in what a large part of this thread has detailed, perhaps you should start another one, based on accuracy mods for a Rem 700.

Now, back to the tangent. :rolleyes: Just how much accuracy do you want? No offense to member Bogie, but the difference between sub-MOA and his level of accuracy is not practically useful in the field. His sport pushes the boundaries of accuracy to the extreme, but if you are talking about putting steel on target, either from a hunting perspective or from a military or police perspective, there are a LOT more important things you can do for YOURSELF rather than worry about .3 MOA difference between a stock gun with good handloads and what Bogie does. Bogie, I'm not trying to fight you here, but if you can step back from the bench for a minute, I think you'll see what I'm saying. There is practical accuracy, and there is accuracy for accuracy's sake. Nexus6, you job is to decide what you need, and what is excessive.

clint1911a1
November 17, 2003, 09:38 PM
Question?

What's wrong with the factory stock that is supplied with the PSS? :confused:

Mute
November 18, 2003, 11:20 AM
Question?

What's wrong with the factory stock that is supplied with the PSS?

Absolutely nothing! There are better stocks, but the stock stock (ha ha) is perfectly serviceable.

bogie
November 18, 2003, 12:13 PM
At the same time, _exceptional_ accuracy isn't that hard to achieve.

I mean, we've got folks claiming that their "tactical" rifles are tackdrivers, and they're charging upwards of $1,500 for rifles that will shoot 1" groups.

Sheesh. Sure, that's good enough to wipe Bubba's medula oblongata at 50 yards, but for the same money, you can have a rifle that'll deliver a significantly greater degree of accuracy.

In order of what I'd spend money on...

Bedding job (cheap, and you're gonna do it anyway)
Better scope (Leupold, Leupold, or Leupold)
New (or slightly used) match grade barrel, chambered for your choice of cartridge
True action (really should do it when you put on the new barrel)
Hand dies and scale (unless already a reloader) to tailor handloads
Good trigger - Jewell, Rifle Basix, etc.
Different stock, and here I'd stick with McMillan instead of a "tactical" stock

TechBrute
November 18, 2003, 01:11 PM
Different stock, and here I'd stick with McMillan instead of a "tactical" stock

That's a funny statement since 2 of McMillans's biggest customers are Robar and the USMC. :D

Bogie brings up a great point. A jewell Trigger for $200 would do more for your shooting than a $700 AICS stock.

bogie
November 18, 2003, 05:41 PM
well...

Too many of the "tactical" stocks are also just plain ugly. And not comfy.

WhiteKnight
November 26, 2003, 11:12 PM
Better scope (Leupold, Leupold, or Leupold)

I thought Nightforce scopes were popular among top shooters.

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