I am purchasing a Remington - 700 SPS Tactical chambered in .308 what scope to buy???


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Hans1944
December 15, 2009, 12:19 PM
Title pretty much says it all. I want a mil-dot scope that is field tested and proven, and built to take a beating in the field. Looking around the 500 dollar mark but that is negotiable. Thanks for any help.

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Robert
December 15, 2009, 12:36 PM
Simply put, the best one you can afford. $500 will get you into the range of the Burris XTR line. http://www.burrisoptics.com/xtrtactical1.html
I have not used one but I know a guy who runs one on his AR for 3 Gun and loves it. Optics Planet (not an endorsement, just a quick Google search) has them for $770
http://www.opticsplanet.net/burris-3x-12x-50mm-xtr-xtreme-tactical-riflescope.html
Long range tactical rifle scopes usually go for much more than $500. My brother uses a Leupold Mk4 ERT on his .308 that set him back $1400. Good optics are worth every penny and can make or break a rifle. But that is just my opinion.

Strongbad
December 15, 2009, 01:37 PM
My buddy has a Nikon Target model on his, don't recall if it's a 6.5-20x or what, but it's a good fit and the gun shoots superb.

David Sours
December 15, 2009, 01:51 PM
i just purchased the Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x50 30mm tube with the tactical turrets. I am very pleased with this scope and would buy it again. I spent 559.00 for the scope + tax. There is a very accurate review of the scope on the snipers hide page. Or you can just google the scope brand and model to find it. Again, very pleased with the scope. I have two other Leupold Scopes one VX-3 and on Vari-X 3 and the Bushnell is right there with them on clarity and pretty close on light gathering ability. Bushnell also makes a Tactical in the 3200 Elite series that is a little cheaper but I have no experience with them.

Good Luck,
David

USSR
December 15, 2009, 03:16 PM
Hans1944,

Whatever scope you finally go for, make sure you buy a 20MOA picatinny rail to put it on.

Don

Strongbad
December 15, 2009, 08:27 PM
Hans1944,

Whatever scope you finally go for, make sure you buy a 20MOA picatinny rail to put it on.

Don
__________________

You only have to worry about that if you're going to be shooting in the 1k neighborhood.

USSR
December 15, 2009, 09:27 PM
You only have to worry about that if you're going to be shooting in the 1k neighborhood.

Why buy a .308 and then eliminate the possibility of taking that shot?

Don

Ridgerunner665
December 15, 2009, 09:51 PM
Don is right...on both accounts.

The average "decent" 1 inch tube scope will get you to 700 yards with the SPS Tactical...say 23 MOA or so of scope adjustment. (that is "up" adjustment, however much "down" adjustment it has is irrelevant)

You're gonna need nearly twice that amount to reach 1K yards...

At the very least, a 308 should be set up to reach 800 yards...may as well get the other 200 yards while you're at it. Some of the better 30mm tube scopes will get you to 800 yards if mounted flat...but like he said, why rule out the possibility?

I just sold my SPS Tactical...not because I didn't like it...I didn't need it.

I had a Leupold Mark II 6-18x40mm AO on it...if you're interested I'll sell you that scope for $550 (about $100 cheaper than a new one...depending on where you find it)

56 MOA of elevation adjustment total...700 yards without a base to add some MOA (or you could cheat and use the Mil-dots like I did)

Victor1Echo
December 15, 2009, 10:07 PM
This is the question I wanted to post. I would go with Ridge's advice, as he has invested a lot of time in this rifle.

atlanticfire
December 15, 2009, 10:12 PM
Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x50 30mm
+1:cool:

Ridgerunner665
December 15, 2009, 10:16 PM
Those Bushnell scopes are OK...but the 30mm tubes are only for looks, unless Bushnell has changed them...they don't have anymore adjustment than your average 1 inch tube (and in some cases...not as much)

IIRC...they have 44 MOA of total adjustment, that might get you to 650 yards or so with the SPS Tactical...if it zeroes with the crosshair in the center if the adjustment range (<<< don't bet on that happening with any scope that costs less than an arm and a leg)

Again...the Bushnell scopes will do the job nicely, I'm just saying the 30mm tubes are more for looks on those particular scopes.

All of the above about the Bushnell scope is a moot point with a 20 MOA canted base...but its worth mentioning.

USSR
December 15, 2009, 11:00 PM
Yeah, never understood why the Bushnell's have such limited W&E adjustment.

Don

rangerruck
December 16, 2009, 01:49 AM
nikon, pentax, hakko, burris, supersniper. all should be good for less than 500 bucks; I'll throw in with a bushnell 6500 by the way, should get you all the adjustment you need for 1000yd shooting.

Oh yeah, can't forget the Weaver stuff, always good, and the higher end stuff is great, and the new 40-44's are fantastic for the money. And of course they use japanese glass, which is allways good.

Uncle Mike
December 16, 2009, 03:36 AM
Those Bushnell scopes are OK...but the 30mm tubes are only for looks, unless Bushnell has changed them...they don't have anymore adjustment than your average 1 inch tube (and in some cases...not as much)

Exactly! Don't let the fat girl fool ya, many 30mm tubes use 1" erector assemblies..what you get is no more, and sometimes less, adjustment than a 1" tube scope.

+1 Ranger on the Weaver stuff, since Weavers 'upgrade', if you will, they have been turning out some really excellent product, not that the old Weaver was bad or anything, just that the new stuff is fantastic for the money! We can not keep any of the Weaver line in stock anymore! Stuff sells like thirty cent gasoline!

The 44/40 line is the old, now discontinued Intensity(Federal/ATK) line but with some improvements.

The Burris XTR line is...Good, well, I don't think much of it, but the customers that buy them, love them. Haven't had to send any Burris stuff back for a while...amazing, I know!

Nikon... The Monarch is excellent, and if you can swing it, the Monarch Gold is even better. BUT do not be fooled by the Monarch Tactical line...it ain't all that and the price is waaay up there!

Don't leave out good ol' Leupold...some smokin' deals on the old VX-III, if you can still find them..CDNN had some left at a ridiculously low price(retail).

You'll just have to shop around with a maximum price your willing to pay and see what's out there...come back let us know what you found and then we'll be better able to help.

Bobarino
December 16, 2009, 01:39 PM
check out the Millett TRS and LRS. seems to meet all of your criteria including costs.

Bobby

RobMoore
December 16, 2009, 01:45 PM
http://swfa.com/SWFA-SS-10x42-Tactical-Riflescope-P499.aspx

$319.95

glockmon
December 16, 2009, 02:20 PM
Give these a look see. http://www.binoculars.com/rifle-scopes/rifle-scopes/624x60irswattactical.cfm

Boris Barowski
December 16, 2009, 02:26 PM
I am very happy with my Zeiss conquest on a Remington 700 VSF rifle in .308 Win
http://www.theriflescopestore.com/zeissscopes.html

farscott
December 16, 2009, 02:39 PM
How can one answer this question without knowing on which targets and at what distances one will use the rifle? Scope choices are all about the shooting one does.

The last .308 I scoped is a Ruger Mark II Frontier and it got a Leupold 1.5-5X VX-3 because it gets used on deer with shots under 150 yards. That little scope is perfect for that little rifle. The .308 before that is a 700 5-R that gets used on paper and deer at longer ranges, and it now wears a Leupold 10X Mark 4.

Hans1944
December 16, 2009, 02:51 PM
farscott... good point, I intend to use it for hunting large game... and a zombie apocalypse if it happens lol.

Another question I have is what type of range can this weapon reach out to with a scope accurately and consistently? What point does the .308 round begin to lose its effectiveness? (I know this may seem like very basic questions, but I have no experience with precision rifles or .308)

I dont know much about optics, but again I definitively want a Mil-Dot reticule, and I already know that they can be difficult to use but I am getting that taken care of.

What is a good range for this weapon to be effective?

Thanks for all the help so far everyone.
Hans

Bobarino
December 16, 2009, 03:21 PM
for humane game kills, i don't think i would push it much past 300 yards. military snipers use it out to 800-ish yards on bad guys. for paper punching, 1,000 yards isn't out of the question at all.

Bobby

USSR
December 16, 2009, 03:56 PM
What point does the .308 round begin to lose its effectiveness? (I know this may seem like very basic questions, but I have no experience with precision rifles or .308)

Depends upon the bullet and load you are using. The 175SMK at 2650 - 2750fps used to be the load for shooting out to 1,000 yards. In recent years, it has been replaced by the 155gr Scenar at 2900 - 2950fps. Another load is the excellent 190SMK at 2650 - 2700fps. None of these are commercial loads, and are the result of judicious handloading.

Don

Black Majik
December 16, 2009, 05:08 PM
Any reason you want a Mildot reticle?

If your distances are known, plinking at the range a MD reticle isn't necessary. You'll want a scope that has consistent tracking and repeatability. A few come to mind.

Leupold Mark 2, comes in MD
Super Sniper 3-9x, comes in MD
Bushnell 3200,4200, or 6500, also comes in MD

You can save money going with a regular duplex. If you insist on having something besides duplex, get a reticle that matches your turrets.

farscott
December 16, 2009, 08:02 PM
For large game hunting, I would consider a low power variable like a 1.5-5X, a fixed-power 4X, a fixed-power 6X, or a fixed power 10X. I tend to lean toward the lesser powers, especially for big game, as a 6X at 300 yards provides a great sight picture on a deer. After all, a 6X at 300 yards is like the naked eye at 50 yards. I can see a deer's vitals just fine at 50 yards without a scope, so a 6X at 300 yards is enough magnification for me.

I really like the Leupold line of scopes, both for the lifetime warranty and the durability. There is better glass out there, but Leupold stands behind their product. I like the old M8 4X and M6 6X scopes, and these are available used. I am looking for an old M8 3X for a light rifle.

Hans1944
January 13, 2010, 07:57 PM
I definitely want to be able to shoot a playing card consistently at 1,000 meters. Ive been looking around and I really like the Leupold MK IV, I also did some research on the Konus M-30 Tactical any thoughts on Konus? The price was kind of low which raised some speculation but Ive heard nothing negative of them. They seem to be a fairly new/unheard of company. Thanks again

ArmedBear
January 13, 2010, 08:02 PM
I definitely want to be able to shoot a playing card consistently at 1,000 meters.

A few questions you might want to ask, before "what scope?"

Do you realize that would mean a rifle and load that shot consistent ragged one-hole groups at 200 meters, with no flyers?

What kind of reloading setup or budget for reloading equipment do you have?

How much do you have budgeted for gunsmithing?

Do you realize that, with a scope, this will be a 13-pound rig?

What kind of hunting do you plan to do with that?

RobMoore
January 13, 2010, 08:09 PM
It takes more than money to get 1/4 moa groups.

Ridgerunner665
January 13, 2010, 08:11 PM
That is a fact...

I think the OP should hunt slightly larger prey at 1,000 yards...old car hoods are a good place to start.

ArmedBear
January 13, 2010, 08:13 PM
It takes more than money to get 1/4 moa groups.


LOL That's certainly true.

But without the right rifle and loads to start with, you can kiss off hitting playing cards at 1000 meters, even from a gun vise bolted to a concrete foundation with no wind.:)

RobMoore
January 13, 2010, 08:20 PM
Old car hoods, I like that idea. I wonder what the scrap yard charges. Even if that turns out to be too big of a target, you can affix smaller things to it.

joed
January 13, 2010, 08:28 PM
Before you buy a scope you need to ask yourself what you intend to use the rifle for. If hunting a 3x9 will suffice. If serious target work you want a good target scope.

I have used Leupold scopes for over 30 years and have no complaints about them. Recently started buying Weaver T (Target Scopes) and they seem fine too, but I don't have a lot of use on these yet.

I can't comment on to many other scopes. The only advice I'll give you is to not buy cheap or you'll regret it. One rifle I bought used came with a Simmons, it hurt my eyes to use it. I replaced it quickly and would never own another Simmons.

I've found that a good scope costs just about as much as the rifle it's mounted on. To sum up purchasing a scope there is a saying my father used to have.

"If you want nice clean oats you must pay a fair price. If you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse those come a lot cheaper".

Hans1944
January 13, 2010, 08:29 PM
My budget for reloading wouldn't be an issue, the card idea may be a little far-fetched. I was mainly looking for something that "could" pull off a shot like that. I intend to hunt large game, but mostly target shooting. Ive heard from different sources that a 1,000 meter shot with the .308 700 with a decent grouping is a very do-able task. But as I haven't much experience with precision shooting I really do not know.

Ridgerunner665
January 13, 2010, 08:45 PM
The 308 will do 1,000 yards...but it ain't easy.

With a baseline rifle such as the one you have...a 10 inch group at 1,000 yards is a damn good one. (that is a sub MOA group for that range)

Ridgerunner665
January 13, 2010, 08:48 PM
And by the way...I still have that Leupold Mark II scope for sale I might even take a little less than I previously asked for it...maybe.

semperfi63
January 13, 2010, 10:41 PM
A playing card at 1000 wow. Well I guess we all need goals. That is serious sub 1/2 MOA.. I think I would wait until the playing card gets to within 500 that is still sub MOA.:neener:

Uncle Mike
January 14, 2010, 03:11 AM
I definitely want to be able to shoot a playing card consistently at 1,000 meters.

That's a pretty tall beer to pour...and you bought a Remington 700 SPS-T, did ya?

$500...... Sightron SII Tactical.

blackops
January 14, 2010, 05:48 AM
i just purchased the Bushnell 4200 Elite 6-24x50 30mm tube with the tactical turrets

I like the scope too and was debating the purchase, but even with a 20moa picatinny base you get around 50moa of adjustment range out of the scope. Displeasing for a 30mm tube. It bottoms out at 100 and is very questionable to 1k.

Don is right...on both accounts.

Don is always right. I'm waiting for him to be wrong once :)

Bottom line is I've been through exactly what you are going through right now. Actually I'm near the end of the line on the deal. I almost went with the Konus and would of if it wasn't for the 1/8 clicks. Same with Sightron. If you don't mind 1/8 clicks I would advise Sightron. All the guys I've spoken to that actually regularly shoot LR have mentioned them if your on a budget. After hours of trying to find the knobs on the Leupold Mark 2's I found the windage knob to be inconvenient and canít be viewed from being positioned behind the rifle. Also no side parallax adjustment. Tactical scopes are far different from your average hunting scope. A lot more technical options are available. It's hard to find a decent scope for a decent price with all the options a tactical scope offers. In the end I would like a NF or a S&B, but that isn't going to fly with my wallet right now. I researched thoroughly and came up with the Wonders 4X14X50. I'm not a fan of dots in my reticule either so this was perfect. The owner is very nice guy and offers top notch customer service. If you have issues he will accommodate you quickly. In the end I went ahead and spent more on the rifle. I can update the glass later if need be.

laanguiano
January 15, 2010, 02:55 PM
My Scope Experience:
Bushnell Legend 5-15x Variable
Bushnell 3200 10x Fixed
Bushnell 4200 6-24 Variable
Nikon Monarch 4-16SF Variable

The Nikon has been my favorite. Very clear glass, very bright, love the adjustments and side focus. Very smooth and positive clicks. You dont get much MOA Adjustment, but with a 20MOA base it will get you out to 1000 yds. The Bushnell 4200 comes in a close second but it was rediculously long and heavy, and your eye sweetspot is small to see a full unobstructed view as compared to the Nikon.

My Suggestions in your price range . Nikon Monarch, Sightron III, Bushnell 4200, Vortex Viper.

ArmedBear
January 15, 2010, 02:58 PM
I think I would wait until the playing card gets to within 500 that is still sub MOA.

Sub-1/2 MOA. A standard poker card is 2 1/2" across, and he said "consistently".

Geno
January 15, 2010, 03:50 PM
Easy decision to make. Quite a few fellas around here use this scope to 1,000 yards. This is my planned set-up for my own M700 SPS Tactical in .308:

$499.99 -- Leupold FX-3 Target Rifle Scope 12x 40mm Adjustable Objective Fine Duplex Reticle Matte
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=115671
Specification per Leupold: http://www.leupold.com/hunting-and-shooting/products/scopes/fx-3-riflescopes/fx-3-12x40mm-adj-obj-target/

$124.99 -- Leupold 1" Mark 4 Picatinny-Style Rings Matte Medium
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=987843

$96.99 -- Leupold (20 MOA) 1-Piece Mark 4 Picatinny-Style Scope Base (8-40 Adaptable) Remington 700 Short Action Matte
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=315661

Geno

DoubleTapDrew
January 15, 2010, 03:54 PM
Start with the playing card at 100yds. You can move it out further as you progress. The rifle will shoot more accurately than you will for a while.

semperfi63
January 15, 2010, 03:55 PM
Sub-1/2 MOA. A standard poker card is 2 1/2" across, and he said "consistently".
AB but it is close to 5 inches high isn't it? so top to bottom would be 1 MOA at 500, I agree 1/2 MOA across at 500 -- anyhow still a darn difficult shot

Gordon
January 15, 2010, 05:16 PM
"I definitely want to be able to shoot a playing card consistently at 1,000 meters."

Glad I wasn't drinking anything when I read the joke of the day,My goodness friend go to the 200 yard range and get in touch with reality!

ArmedBear
January 15, 2010, 05:19 PM
2 1/2" wide x 3 1/2" high.

ISO 216 B8

No ****.:D

Considering the issues with drop at that distance, I think you'd have an even harder time hitting 2 1/2" vertical than you would 2 1/2" horizontal. Unless there is any wind.:D

smcweaver
January 15, 2010, 06:26 PM
I have a Burris black diamond 6-24 with warne 20moa base and warne tactical rings and I can punch holes in paper plates at 800yds all day with that same gun

Chief Engineer
January 15, 2010, 07:17 PM
Well, if you ever get to the point of hitting that card consistantly, you will succede in cutting the light rifle, world record, in less than half. Good luck with that.

blackops
January 15, 2010, 08:55 PM
Chief pretty much said it all there...good luck. haha

Hans1944
January 19, 2010, 12:25 AM
Haha yeah I know a playing card at a 1000 is, to say the least a little far fetched. Again I just meant something that "could" achieve that.

I also bought my base mounts today from Cabelas. They are Weaver 36M (rear and front). I dont know much about mounting scopes either. Are these good mounts? They were only 5.99 each and that raised a flag.

dubbleA
January 19, 2010, 01:50 AM
I also bought my base mounts today from Cabelas. They are Weaver 36M (rear and front). I dont know much about mounting scopes either. Are these good mounts? They were only 5.99 each and that raised a flag.


Nothing against the weaver bases you purchased but there are many that are available that are better suited for stretching the distance.

They are a canted type base, by that I mean they are made in a way that they make your scope slope forward thus adding elevation travel for your scope. While there are 2 piece versions I much prefer the 1 piece base to help with alignment These can be had in 10, 20, 30, 40 MOA. Some, but certainly not all to look at are Badger, Seekins, Near, Farrell, USO and Leupold. I'll take a steel base over an aluminum also.

blackops
January 19, 2010, 04:55 AM
You get what you pay for and that's the case 99% of the time. I believe this is an example of that same scenario.

Hans1944
January 19, 2010, 01:39 PM
Yeah I was thinking that a solid base would be better then two for exactly that reason. Is there a specific base out there that would be considered "superior" in that regards? I haven't opened them yet so Ill take em back. Id rather spend the money and get a better base. I don't fancy settling for an "okay" product.

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