[JellyJar]

I started a thread asking if non-uniform off duty or ex LEOs ever carry openly or primarily CC. I seems that at least in urban areas most non-uniform off duty or ex LEOs CC if they carry. Now for a slightly different question.

Do most ex LEOs carry either openly or CC if they can?

I suspect that most ex LEOs have seen so much crap while in service that they, more than the population in general, are aware of how often bad things can happen to good people no matter where they may be. Therefore, no matter how safe their community may be they will prefer to carry a handgun for protection just in case.

I ask this question because I know that a lot of people in this country and in other countries think that those of us who are not LEOs and carry are not quite right in the head. We are either paranoid or Walter Murpy types who just want others to know that we are bad dudes:cuss: I at least am not such a person and carry because of the crap I have seen and heard of as a civilian and want no more than to be as reasonably safe from crime as possible.:D

[Snowbandit]

In my experience probably less than 10 percent of officers carry regulary unless they have to. Most are not nearly as interested or knowledgable as the adverage "high roader". And, even sadder, we're probably better off without most of them too. Thirty years I've done this job and you wouldn't believe some of the clowns out there.

[Quoheleth]

I have a retired Harris County Deputy Constable in my congregation. He does not have his CHL, but utilizes Texas' Castle Doctrine to keep a loaded gun in his vehicle, everywhere he goes.

I have an active duty HCDC in my congregation. He never carries off-duty unless he has received a credible threat against him or his family.

I believe that is one definition of irony: the retired guy sort-of carries; the active guy won't.

Q

[mcdonl]

A friend of mine on our FD is also PD and he carries CCW offduty.

[Snowbandit]

The retired guy, if he had at least 16 years in, would be covered by the Federal Law Enforcement Safety Act. He doesn't need a State CCW, he's good to carry nationwide and that includes places prohibited to regular CCW holders. Lots of cops, current and retired keep a little something in the car. That's fairly common.

[CorpITGuy]

I'm often surprised that a guy can carry a gun for 25, 30, or even 40+ years and not become a gun nut... but it happens. :D

What's wrong with those guys?! ;)

[sheepdog]

...some retired or ex-cops I know have had enough and are sick of what the courts/defense attorneys do with the aftermath...I know personally active duty cops who won't carry except in uniform...I don't understand that, either... I prefer to CC...which is what the law in Tx currently provides for...

[memphisjim]

id say yes the guys that been to jail are getting out

[Lonestar49]

...

When off-duty and now, in retirement:

My recently retired (after 33yrs) LAPD SWAT, BIL did, and still does, always, carries his 1911/45 ccw IWB and always gets the seat facing the door at any place, restaurant, we go to as a family get together.

The only time he takes it off is at my house and that is only a 50/50 chance and, when he does, he places it, in its clip-on holster, up in a high kitchen cupboard, always, when most, if any, aren't watching and I inform him where my house guns are, as well, throughout the house, no matter.


Ls

[Thaddeus Jones]

Myself, and all the retired officers I know, carry regularly. I guess what we have seen and done is simply ingrained in us.

That said, back in the day I knew many deputies who simply viewed their handgun as a tool for work, and never carried off duty. IIRC something about making a good witness. TJ

[David E]

When I was a cop, I was amazed by how few fellow cops carried a gun on the every-other-week Training day, much less off duty.

Once, coming back from training in a patrol car with 3 other deputies, the driver, our DUI officer, stopped a car, even tho none of us were in uniform.

I was the only one that was armed. We called for an on-duty car to take over the stop.

Many cops would rather have a new Parker pen than a new gun.

[CWL]

One of my gun trainers, a retired SWAT & Narcotics officer, tells a tale about how he ran into the former head of the Hells Angels in his town in a nowhere bar in the middle of the desert, several states away.

That's the reason why he always carries.

[fastbolt]

Well, considering that apparently some statistics indicate that only upwards of 20% of active LE carry weapons off-duty, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to hear that the number is lower among retired cops.

States laws may vary a bit in this regard. (Read CA's Penal Code sections 12027 & 12027.1, for example ... http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/waisgate?WAISdocID=91365711103+3+0+0&WAISaction=retrieve

LEOSA expanded things quite a bit on a national level. From what I've seen, some retired cops are interested in becoming qualified to carry under LEOSA as they travel to other states, and some aren't.

As far as what people from other countries may think? They're entitled to their own opinions, arguably based on whatever values and ideas have been ingrained in them by their respective societies.

I've met folks visiting from other countries, both LE & non-LE in their countries of origin, as well as those living here long term, both naturalized and still foreign citizens. Opinions vary.

I've heard LE from other countries sound amazed and puzzled why LE in the US would be trusted and permitted to carry weapons off-duty, as well as others who wished they had the ability to do so. Not my business what their respective countries may or may not permit their cops (or non-LE/military members of their populace) to do. ;)

Now, all of that being said, I've seen what appears to be an increasing number of retired folks I know who have decided to carry a retirement CCW weapon at least part of the time.

What's with the 'open carry' part of this question, though? Either they choose to carry or they don't. If they choose to carry they would presumably choose to do so according to their individual preferences, but also within the constraints of the laws involved. You'll notice the referenced CA sections in the link I posted refer to "concealed" & "concealed and loaded" firearms ... and the LEOSA legislation refers to "Carrying of concealed firearms by qualified law enforcement officers".

Lt Col Grossman refers to LE being America's first line of defense on the domestic front, and offers good reasoning for honorably retired LE to carry when able to do legally ... and I certainly wouldn't presume to disagree with him. (He doesn't forget the non-LE citizen who has the ability to lawfully carry a concealed weapon under existing laws, either, mentioning their potential worth in his lectures, but he also appears to recognize the dedication to public service & safety, as well as the extra training and experience, which are often the result of choosing to serve the public during a career in LE, too.)

[Leanwolf]

LONESTAR 49 - " My recently retired (after 33yrs) LAPD SWAT, BIL did, and still does, always, carries his 1911/45 ccw IWB and always gets the seat facing the door at any place, restaurant, we go to as a family get together."

Lonestar 49, your just recently retired BIL's name wouldn't be "S.R.," would it???

L.W.

[SharpsDressedMan]

I think there are more diversified people taking a cop job these days. The trend toward diversity (ethnic, females, specialty training, etc), along with a rise in required (college) education has reduced the number of gun loving neanderthals (like myself), and introduced the anti-gunnning, tree hugging, sensitive persons of the New Millenium, most of which could 1) probably care less about a gun 2) don't like guns, but will carry one if they absolutely must, and 3) the few who are carrying a gun, but have NO intention of ever using it. I worked with a guy like that. I think he just believed that IF he believed that he wouldn't have to use it, God would deem it so (I must admit, he hasn't had to use it in 30 years). It's true, there are some cops out there that WILL not shoot someone, and they should not be getting a paycheck, but they are. There are a few that were not gun "enthusiasts" before they became cops, and turned to the dark side, but they are few. I also think it might be a bit regional. I have visited the South, and lived in the N. East, and west of the Rockies. In Texas, NW Colorado, Wyoming, and the Western states in general, cops tend to at least be gun freindly. In the NE, like NY MA, PA, look out. You might find a pro-gun cop, but you will more likely find a gun-hater. I'm sure the individual cop attitudes would play into whether they pack off duty guns or not. I have always packed a gun, and always felt I was serving the public good when I did. I never had criminal intentions, and always felt I'd risk myself to defend another citizen if I saw them being attacked, whether wearing a badge or not (I'm now just a private citizen w/CCW).

[RetDep310]

Retired 2 years ago after 26 years as a LEO, and still carry concealed. Have my state issued carry permit and my former department allows me to come back a couple of times per year to qualify with my weapons..gotta provide my own ammo though. I don't normally carry my issued retired id and badge unless if go out of state, but it's in my vehicle.

Still feel a certain responsibility to my community and would intervene in a situation if a life was in danger. If nobody in danger, I would probably just be a good witness and not endanger any innocents.

[Lonestar49]

Lonestar 49, your just recently retired BIL's name wouldn't be "S.R.," would it???

L.W.


...

Hey L.W.,

No, he's Samoan (dark/tan..lol) E. Tusi, H.. (sgt)

Specialized in tactical weapons use, training there, at the LAPD range and throughout our Military, and is one of, IIRC, only 37 or 38 officers who has made a perfect score with a hand-weapon (1911/45_in his case) on the moving target course in the LAPD since it started, IIRC, late 20's to mid 30's (target course competitions/qualifications).

If you need a last name, PM me..


Ls

[Rexster]

Quoheleth: "I have a retired Harris County Deputy Constable in my congregation. He does not have his CHL, but utilizes Texas' Castle Doctrine to keep a loaded gun in his vehicle, everywhere he goes."

If he would just shoot a qual course just once a year, at any agency that would give him a qual card, he could carry on his person, most places in the USA, under LEOSA. (Formerly known as HR 218, when President Bush signed it, it became a act, not a mere House Resolution.) If he has a "retired" ID, and a qual card, it equates to a national carry permit for retired LEOs.

As for leaving guns in vehicles, I have expressed my feelings about that before, in forums, in some very impolite terms. I get REALLY tired of seeing notices on my computer, which is mounted in my patrol car, of such and such vehicle just being stolen, and there being a warning of a gun being in the glovebox or console, or a gun under the seat, etc. Or, taking a BMV report, and learning that another firearm just hit the street, and is now in the hands of a felon. OK, rant over. I hope your retired friend uses a sturdy lockbox in his vehicle.

On the subject matter at hand, I will get back with y'all when I retire in the next two to ten years.

[eight433]

A guy I know recently retired from law enforcment. Prior to that he carried 24/7. Now He only carries when he is going into a larger city. Around his home town he normally does not carry any more. After lugging a carry piece around for 30+ years, he is enjoying not carrying it. I suspect this will pass and he will gradually begin to carry more and more often.

[9mmepiphany]

I'm often surprised that a guy can carry a gun for 25, 30, or even 40+ years and not become a gun nut... but it happens.

What's wrong with those guys?!

what's to understand? it was just a work tool that they used on the job

i know many current officers who don't carry when they're off duty

i do, but i carried before i was a cop too

[franconialocal]

I carry off duty, and my dad (Retired Chief PPO) carries as well. He still swears by his good ol' S&W J-frame snub .38 :)

[Ala Dan]

Yes, I carry 24/7 or all of the time. CCW's and applications may vary;
but they are there~! :cool: :D

[bdb benzino]

My father was a LEO for over 30 years and still carries CC all the time. He would be the one old guy that a BG would regret messing with!;)

[MedWheeler]

This one does... all the time.

[Teddyb]

This one does as well. I rather not need it and have it, than to need it and not have it. These little compact 9 mm are great. Beats that S&W J frame for firepower hands down. I do believe the Bush Administration signed in to Federal Law the all retired LEO's can carry anytime, anywhere as long as we have our retired Department ID.

[blue33]

Close LEO friend keeps a 38 in the car he slips in his pocket depending. I always have my auto on my belt so if were tgether general rule is it his tha fan he gets the auto and I get the heck outta doodge while calling for help. If not possible I take the shot. Guess he figures its better for him to shoot bein LEO and court hassle. Should he carry all the time IMO yes but hes lazzy lol

[Joe Demko]

Many retired cops and state troopers I know don't. Basically, you might say they had enough of carrying guns while on the job.

[jon_in_wv]

Retired officers can carry under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act of 2004 but it entails more than just simply "having your ID". First you must read the law to ensure you qualify as law enforcement and you must complete firearms qualification. Without meeting all the requirements of the law you aren't carrying legally.

[Deanimator]

Some places, like Chicago, make it as difficult as humanly possible.

Daley doesn't respect any OTHER law, why expect him to respect LEOSA?

[jon_in_wv]

I don't. Thats why I travel AROUND it when I drive home to Minnesota. I have no intention of even traveling through such and anti-gun hole.

[hhb]

I'm a retired LEO and carry 24/7. I live in an area where I still run into people and families of people that I helped sent to prison. I do the H.R. qualification once a year, and my dept furnishes the ammo for both semi-autos and revolvers. I carry my retired dept ID, and the dept issued H.R. 218 annual qualification ID that also has a photo.

[Kenpo]

The thread makes me think of one of the last paragraphs in Lt. Col. Dave Grossman's chapter "On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs";

"If you are a warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be “on” 24/7 for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself... “Baa.”"

I have been surprised by how many LEO's know little to nothing about guns, including the one they carry. It would seem, if you are willingly going to go into harms way, that the tool which may save your life would be a tool you wanted to know everything about.

[hardluk1]

All leo's i know all carry off duty,mainly there backups but they carry.

[Joe Demko]

Grossman and the whole sheepdog analogy need a stake pounded through them and burial in unhallowed ground.

[-eaux-]

wasn't able to/chose not to stay in it long enough to be a 'retired' (financial reasons) but i am an EX.
while i was active LE, i always carried concealed pff duty when i ventured away from the homestead. my commision card was my concealed carry card. actually, i was expected by the state to be armed if in public.
while on the homestead, then and now, i'm closer to a weapon than you are to me. if away from home, i have a concealed weapon in my vehicle, off my person but closer to my hand than you are to me.
i really have to save up my nickels and dimes for a CCW. my state has reciprocity with most that honor reciprocity.

[Erik]

Most that I know do.

[ChCx2744]

I resigned not too long ago and my carry habits are still the same: I carry 24/7, CC. I've already owned a CCW before I became LEO so my carry habits have been the same even before I became LEO.