45-70 Hot Loads


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grsjax
December 15, 2009, 01:01 PM
I have a Siamese Mauser converted to 45-70. Looking for loading information and just about the only thing available is for realitive low pressure loads, ~18,000psi. The Mauser action should be able to handle a much hotter load than that. Question is how hot is to hot for a 45-70 Mauser? Would .458-2" loading data be to much?

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Gryffydd
December 15, 2009, 01:09 PM
Typically, the Siamese Mausers are considered strong enough for the heaviest tier of .45-70 hot loads. Hodgdon lists 3 levels of loads for .45-70. Trapdoor, Lever Actions, and Modern Rifles. The Siamese Mauser should fall into the last category, which in Hodgdon's data runs around 50,000 CUP
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Disclaimer: I know nothing about your individual rifle and its condition or strength.

rcmodel
December 15, 2009, 01:37 PM
Would .458-2" loading data be to much?.458-2" has nothing at all whatsoever to do with loading 45-70. (53,000 CUP)

Most all load manuals list three classes of 45-70 loads.
One for Trapdoor Springfield's. (18,000 - 21,000 CUP)
One for Marlin and Winchester 1886 lever-actions. (28,000 - CUP)
And one for Ruger single-shots and sometimes, Siamese Mauser's. (35,000 - 40,000 CUP)

I'd suggest you get a Lyman, or Speer, or Hodgdon reloading manual and use the tested 45-70 data contained therein.

rc

ArchAngelCD
December 15, 2009, 02:30 PM
I was about to post the link to Hodgdon's Load data site but "Gryffydd" already did. The data under the "Modern Rifles" should be just what you're looking for. (but remember, the 45-70 doesn't need a lot of velocity to do it's job, and do it well) The loads listed under "Lever Actions" should be just fine.

DWFan
December 15, 2009, 02:42 PM
here ya go...

DWFan
December 15, 2009, 02:46 PM
and if that's too much...

grsjax
December 15, 2009, 03:51 PM
Thanks. These should work just fine.

Ridgerunner665
December 30, 2009, 07:08 PM
One for Trapdoor Springfield's. (18,000 - 21,000 CUP)
One for Marlin and Winchester 1886 lever-actions. (28,000 - CUP)
And one for Ruger single-shots and sometimes, Siamese Mauser's. (35,000 - 40,000 CUP)

rcmodel,

Your numbers are off just a tad...

18,000-21,000 psi for the Trapdoor rifles.

Up to 42,000 for the Marlins and Winchesters (I keep mine right around 38,000psi using mostly Hodgden load data from the website)

And up to 50,000 psi for the Rugers and perhaps the Siamese Mausers.

Hodgden's load data website.. http://data.hodgdon.com/main_menu.asp

rcmodel
December 31, 2009, 11:35 AM
Your numbers are off just a tad...Depends on who you want to believe.

I believe Lyman, Speer, and Bolt-Action Rifles by Frank DeHass.

rc

Ridgerunner665
December 31, 2009, 11:49 AM
Point taken...

I believe comparative results based on scientific analysis of the 444 caliber 1895 (results given...bolt thrust, psi)


444 = 44,000 psi
45-70 = 42,000 psi (up to 45,000 is still safe, but it IS the upper limit...no margin for error)

The difference in bolt thrust between 40,000 psi in the 45-70 and the standard 444 load is about 200 ft. lbs. (not enough to matter).

Nothing wrong with playing it safe...I'm just saying that the 1895 is built for it (40,000 psi), the hot factory loads (Garrett) are about 38,000 psi.

There is a lot of mixed up info on the subject...too much in fact. I'm not trying to sound like a "know it all" by any means...but I'm right on this one. 38,000 psi is just fine in a Marlin.

ReloaderFred
December 31, 2009, 12:04 PM
RC's pressures are listed in CUP, and Ridgerunner665's pressures are listed in psi. There's a difference and no direct correlation tables for the two methods.

Just thought I would point that out.

Hope this helps.

Fred

rcmodel
December 31, 2009, 12:16 PM
Somehow we got off of the Siamese Mauser converted to 45-70 the OP ask about in the first post.

Lets get back to our regularly scheduled bickering. :D

rc

Ridgerunner665
December 31, 2009, 12:16 PM
Fred,

In the case of the 45-70...actually the two methods are nearly identical. This is not true of other rounds, just the 45-70....it just works out that way (case volume and all that)

moooose102
January 1, 2010, 09:07 AM
there is also a good article in the august - september 2007 Handloader Magazine about loading up the 45/70.

bfoosh006
January 6, 2010, 10:57 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=796073....get this book. It is well worth it.

squarles67
January 6, 2010, 01:23 PM
http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570.htm (4570 Jacketed Loads)

http://www.realguns.com/loads/4570cast.htm (4570 Cast Loads)

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