What is the order of primers from hottest...


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SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 05:32 PM
I was curious of the order of large rifle primers from the hottest to the mildest. I have heard it said that Federal is the hottest and wanted to know from there about Rem, Win, CCI, etc.

I will be using this info to load my 22-250 so thanks in advance for any replies.

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rcmodel
December 16, 2009, 05:47 PM
What differance does it make?
You will likely get best accuracy with the milder Standard or BR LG Rifle anyway.

Best to use whatever primer is called for in the reloading manual you are using.

If you want hot, use Magnum primers, but don't expect as good accuracy in a 22-250 with them.

rc

SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 06:10 PM
To be honest, i dont know what i want (primer wise) except accuracy so i suppose you answered that question. Basically, i have alot of federal 210s' and a few CCI standard large rifle primers and wanted to know they would yeild as good of results as any.
Being i have heard federals are the hottest, i was just wondering if they would fit in the "mild" category for my application. Guess im not clear if the terms "hot" and "mild", concerning primers, refered to brand vs. brand or standard vs. magnum.
Thanks for the info.

DWFan
December 16, 2009, 06:14 PM
"Best to use whatever primer is called for in the reloading manual you are using."

Nonsense. A reloading manual is a guide, not a bible. Primers, like powders and bullets, are variables in the recipe and changing one can make a considerable difference in some cartridges. I have no experience with a .22-250, and few rifle cartridges except in general; but in handguns, 25-50 fps can make the difference in shooting a 4" group at 50 yards and a group half that size.
I use the .357 Maximum as an example. Most manuals call for small rifle primers, (specifically the CCI #400), but if you talk to long-time loaders (and silhouette shooters) using this cartridge you'll find nearly all use a small rifle magnum primer. Load data found in manuals for the cartridge typically run at pressures between 38,000 and 44,000 cup while the SAAMI specs call for a 48,000 cup maximum. If you combine the lower pressure loads with a "regular" small rifle primer, the result is soot on the brass signifying improper burning.

rcmodel
December 16, 2009, 06:19 PM
Well, here is one guys test. Don't exactly understand the meaning of it all myself.

http://www.castingstuff.com/primer_testing_reference.htm

It has been my experience that primer brand makes very little difference in accuracy.

What does matter is, Bench Rest primers are more uniform from one shot to the next.

And Magnum primers sometimes generate wide SD swings in smaller cases.

I always had my best luck with Standard LG rifle primers in 22-250 with IMR stick-type powders. Never did use enough Bench Rest primers to really have an opinion, but the bench rest guys use them for ultimate accuracy.

If you are using ball powder, Magnum primers might be called for in the load data to light it off.

Nonsense.Really?
So you are suggesting a new reloader, right off the bat, change components from what the load data calls for?

rc

SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 06:25 PM
Well, that is another issue i have, as most reloaders probably do.(using the exact components as the manual(s). Reason is i usually want to use a certain bullet, and most of the time, its not what they used to test and besides that, their test rifle/barrel is usually different so i never thought my results would equal theirs even with the same powder,primer,bullet. Im ok with that, just have to do testing to get it to my guns liking but knowing to use a non-magnum primer is info for me.

shaggy430
December 16, 2009, 06:28 PM
The best brand of primer to use is the brand you can find right now.

SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 06:31 PM
That chart is good to have, thanks rcmodel. Since i have alot of the fed. GM210M, and they appear close in power to the win WLR many of the manuals use, i will just decrease my loads by .5 and check for pressure.

SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 06:32 PM
Yeah, i have heard about that but i bought my last primers in bulk and its been 3 or 4 years ago. Whats the cause of that?

rcmodel
December 16, 2009, 06:55 PM
Wars all over, and the Obama anti-gun scare hording.

I think the manufactures are beginning to catch up a little as some ammo and components are starting to show up again.

rc

Grump
December 16, 2009, 07:31 PM
From the link:

"NOTE: This data is reference only. This is on a DMS (don't mean squat) scale."

The device shows measures only the explosive force, which I believe is called "brisance". What effect does that have inside the cartridge case? Probably hard to compare. MY rifle got almost exactly 60 fps faster with 4064 and WLRs than it did with CCI 200s. The Federal 210s (non-match) were 50 fps slower than with the WLRs.

So much for THAT report of what primer is "hotter".

SEHunter
December 16, 2009, 09:05 PM
Still good to know anyway. I beleive that even if a specific primer creates less pressure/velocity, then with a good burning powder, upping the powder charge .2 or .3 would compensate for it. Im probably just going to go with the Fed. GM210M that i have plenty of and do the standard testing and checking for pressure signs. Thanks to all for your input.
-SEHunter

DWFan
December 16, 2009, 09:09 PM
Quote from rcmodel: "Really? So you are suggesting a new reloader, right off the bat, change components from what the load data calls for?"

No, I was suggesting, (and would to any reloader, new or otherwise), not to take any reloading manual as gospel. Experimentation is the essence of reloading and no two weapons behave the same even with identical recipes. Claiming, as you did, that it's "Best to use whatever primer is called for in the reloading manual you are using." is not necessarily correct and certainly not correct for all calibers. That is why I used the .357 Maximum as an example; it is an excellent illustration of just how far off manuals can be. In this day and age of sometimes spotty component availability, swapping components may not be an option, but a necessity to keep on shooting.

1SOW
December 16, 2009, 10:55 PM
Wars all over, and the Obama anti-gun scare hording.

I've got a lot of friends who would dispute both statements, but I know what you meant.

madd0c
December 16, 2009, 11:35 PM
RC,
I have read a bunch of your posts and respect your knowledge, but as someone new to reloading I must point out one flaw. As someone stated earlier the best primer seems to be the one you can find presently, and even though some of the .223 loads I have been using call for a SR magnum primer, I don;t have any. I have been using standard SR primers because it is what I have, and for me the loads have been satisfactory. I will say I learned something new from one of the above posts regarding soot on the brass as being a sign of improper combustion. Maybe when I can find some of the magnum primers I can see if I have experienced this, but presently I am loading with what I have and what I can find :)
madd0c

qajaq59
December 17, 2009, 08:11 AM
The best brand of primer to use is the brand you can find right now. You've got that right. I never used Remington primers in 45 years of loading. But that's all I could get this time and I'll shoot 'em when my other brand runs dry.

nastynatesfish
December 17, 2009, 12:04 PM
i use nothing but cci 200 and 450s

Clarence
December 17, 2009, 06:39 PM
Federal primers are used almost exclusively by benchrest shooters. If you are wanting to get the most accuracy possible out of your rifle, I would suggest you stick with Federal.

I started shooting benchrest almost 30 years ago and have rarely used any other primer in loading rifle rounds since then.

For pistol rounds I load whatever I can get my hands on.

SEHunter
December 17, 2009, 06:47 PM
Thanks. Fed is what i have. Its always a motivation when i read good comments about any of the components i have to use. Mine are the GM210M. I understand they also make a regular 210, whats the difference? I have often wondered why there are two of the 210s', 9 1/2s' or which ever brand it may be.

Seedtick
December 18, 2009, 02:18 AM
SEHunter
Thanks. Fed is what i have. Its always a motivation when i read good comments about any of the components i have to use. Mine are the GM210M. I understand they also make a regular 210, whats the difference? I have often wondered why there are two of the 210s', 9 1/2s' or which ever brand it may be.

SEH, The M designates match quality primers. As I understand it match primers are held to tighter tolerances than non-match primers thereby having more consistent performance. I've also heard that they are often produced by the more experienced employees or the ones who have better track records of QC.

Here is a Primer Cross Reference Chart (http://www.handloads.com/misc/primers.asp) you might find helpful.

ST

MovedWest
December 18, 2009, 07:07 AM
From my efforts I've found that CCI primers are pretty predictable. Loads built on CCI300 LP primers are built similarly on CCI350 LPM primers with a 5% decrease in charge.

For instance, a 44mag 240gr round I would build on 20.5gr of 2400 with a standard primer (CCI300) I can build on a CCI350 at 19.6gr with similar results.

I usually build all my 44 mag rounds to make sure they fire regardless of surrounding environmental conditions, so I use magnum primers. I've heard that there are difficulties igniting powder with standard primers when temperatures are below freezing.

-MW

SlamFire1
December 18, 2009, 10:39 AM
As I understand it match primers are held to tighter tolerances than non-match primers thereby having more consistent performance. I've also heard that they are often produced by the more experienced employees or the ones who have better track records of QC.

That may have been true, but when I called Federal years ago, the difference between match primers and regular primers was based on after the fact lot testing. Primer lots that were more consistent were the match primers.

I have seen in publications, dating back from the 60's, lists of primers ranked in terms of "hottness". The rank changes from list to list. I suspect it is because primers are chemical in nature. I will bet that based on the variences in mix, the chemistry of the day, one batch could be the hottest one day, the next batch could be the mildest.

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