I'd say the 7mm WSM *IS* all but dead


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Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 16, 2009, 06:30 PM
...for better or worse.

Not even WINCHESTER is offering rifles in their own caliber:

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/category.asp?family=001C

Of course, Savage dumped it too. I guess 'sumpin had to give' with all the 7mm rem mags sold.

A bit odd to me, however, that that BOTH 7mm WSM AND .280 Rem seem to be going by the wayside at the same time. Browning quit offering the .280 and Remington only offers it in ONE of their many different 700 submodels.

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kentucky_smith
December 16, 2009, 07:35 PM
7mm-08 flourishes, however.

blue_ridge
December 16, 2009, 07:40 PM
I think 7WSM is one of the best all around cartridges out there. Competitors are still building custom 1000 yard rifles in 7WSM. I wouldn't call it dead yet. Maybe this is just another bad decision by the FN managed Winchester that will come back to haunt them.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 16, 2009, 08:01 PM
Blue ridge, I agree; it's a good round (even though I'm guilty of badmouthing short mags), and apparently some long distance shooters like it a lot. I'd like to see it live - more choices are better than fewer choices.

Uncle Mike
December 16, 2009, 08:36 PM
The short mags, really do not offer many advantages over the 'long' mags....as far as 'most' hunters are concerned. However you'll find a particular, dedicated bunch that favors the short mags for competition.

90% + of all rifle sales cater to the hunting crowd....sales dictate what a company will continue with year to year.

I don't see the 7 shorties going completely away, kind of like the 220 swift. What will more than likely happen is manufacturers will offer these calibers as 'custom shop' chambering...the custom shop thing is burning full till nowadays, the custom shops are being promoted by most of the rifle manufacturers more now, than ever.

Seems like the 270WSM and both the 300WSM and 300SAUM are doing fairly well.

Ask what the most popular 'caliber' is around your parts, and see what you get. don't offer any persuasion, just the question...good chance it'll be a 30 cal. of some sort.

Brimic
December 16, 2009, 09:07 PM
The whole push behind the WSM craze was manufacturers trying to get people to buy another rifle in new whiz-bang chambering. Can't blame them, but some, if not most are going to fail.

Horsemany
December 16, 2009, 09:09 PM
It's just a business decision. The world is full of great products that were discontinued because of poor sales.

Ol` Joe
December 16, 2009, 09:10 PM
Hard to get a new cartridge going when you quit building your flagship rifle -M70- for the 1st couple years of its existance.

blue_ridge
December 16, 2009, 09:37 PM
The short mags, really do not offer many advantages over the 'long' mags....as far as 'most' hunters are concerned.

maybe, although it depends on how knowledgeable a group of hunters you are talking about. 7WSM matches 7Rem Mag with less powder (and thus less recoil and longer barrel life) in a short action rifle. That is plenty of advantage for me.

Uncle Mike
December 16, 2009, 09:46 PM
I'm with you blue ridge. I like the 7 short mags! I hunted for several years with a Remington Model 7 in 7mmSAUM.
Lots of blast and noise. If it were up to me, I would have used a lighter weight barrel and went with 24" instead of the 22" tube.

7WSM matches 7Rem Mag with less powder (and thus less recoil and longer barrel life) in a short action rifle.

I believe I'll have to disagree with that one! The less recoil part, anyway.

kentucky_smith
December 16, 2009, 09:47 PM
Very, very short action. Makes for a nice, light little rifle.

Utah1
December 16, 2009, 09:53 PM
I was actually thinking about converting a Savage to this round.

Uncle Mike
December 16, 2009, 10:00 PM
I was actually thinking about converting a Savage to this round.

Go for it...I love the short mags. That would be a excellent choice, as long as you use a long enough barrel.

ArmedBear
December 16, 2009, 10:26 PM
The world is full of great products that were discontinued because of poor sales.

This is, of course, Winchester's own doing. They threw a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what would stick. They introduced a bunch of rounds in a short time frame, including a 7mm and a .270. One of them was going to outsell the other, though I'm a bit surprised the 7mm wasn't the winner.

Weatherby makes both a .270 and a 7mm Weatherby Magnum, for those who want to choose. They probably have a different philosophy from Brownchester and Olin.

I've been interested in the .325 WSM, but frankly I don't trust Brownchester to keep making them, at least not just yet. I saw a nice takedown BLR in .325 Whissum last night, on sale for $699. What a neat packable elk gun that would be. But will I have to form my own cases soon enough? Hard to tell...

rangerruck
December 17, 2009, 11:02 AM
geometry is everything, when concerning the case. a short, fat case, does everything better, than a longer skinnier one. to put it another way, a dude here the other day said it simply enough, all things being equal, he can take his same round, in two diff rifles, and with the wsm style case, load less powder, and get more fps, than in the other case/rifle. proly then can use more style/longer bullets, with more variety of accuracy and speed as well.

jbech123
December 17, 2009, 11:54 AM
I saw a nice takedown BLR in .325 Whissum last night, on sale for $699. What a neat packable elk gun that would be. But will I have to form my own cases soon enough? Hard to tell...
I think that tells the story actually. A shop here has a kimber montana in 325 wsm for 699 brand new...every other caliber is $1049. I've seen simlar things at cabelas and on gunbroker. People are trying to unload them.

H&Hhunter
December 17, 2009, 12:27 PM
Where is here?

MachIVshooter
December 17, 2009, 12:40 PM
A bit odd to me, however, that that BOTH 7mm WSM AND .280 Rem seem to be going by the wayside at the same time. Browning quit offering the .280 and Remington only offers it in ONE of their many different 700 submodels.

The .280 has always had a small but devout following. It is a good cartridge that slightly outclasses the .270 Win, but showed up on the scene too late. Then Remington goofed by changing the name and trying to capitalize ont he popularity of the 7mm moniker.

My sister's first rifle was a Ruger stainless in .280 that I got her for her birthday. 150 grain Sierra's at 3050 FPS has served her well in the game getting department. I would persoanlly love to get a RUger number 1 RSI in 7x57 and rechamber it to .280.

As for the short mags, they're all basically a day late and a dollar short. The classic magnums (7mm RM, .300 WM, .338 WM) are all pretty well cemented as standards among hunters.

Why the 8mm Rem Mag never got a solid foothold in the market still baffles me, though. Damned good big game cartridge.

ArmedBear
December 17, 2009, 12:51 PM
I think that tells the story actually.

Something else that tells the story is the reloading chart I looked at.

With a 180 grain bullet, you can barely squeeze 2950 fps out of a .325 WSM, with specific powder that may or may not shoot well. You can do a hair better with a .300 WSM, but with many powder choices, and you get a better BC.

The .325 looks even worse with heavier bullets -- which are the only reason I'd want the thing.

rangerruck, I don't think that your post is entirely correct. Short and fat cases may work better as a general theory, but a given case still has be a good match for the bullet, powder and bore size. You get better velocity for a given bullet weight with a .338-06 than with the .325 WSM. So long and skinny can still beat short and fat (and it seems that, with modern powder, the .30-06 case might be a better match for .338-06 than it is for its native round).

THAT is why I wish someone would make a .338-06. By the numbers, it's a very well-balanced cartridge WRT both interior and exterior ballistics. It's too bad that Weatherby owns the rights to it, but doesn't make rifles for it.

FREE THE .338-06!:D

ArmedBear
December 17, 2009, 12:55 PM
As for the short mags, they're all basically a day late and a dollar short.

The .300 WSM seems to be doing quite well, actually. A good look through some reloading recipes tells the story of why. It does seem to be an excellent match of case to payload.

The .325, not so much.

And like the .280 vs. .270, the 7mm WSM is just not different enough from the .270 WSM and the .300 WSM. Personally, I think that Winchester should have just done the 7mm.

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