"Double duty" for dies?


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Corner Pocket
December 17, 2009, 08:52 AM
I don't load many .357 Magnums, but it is commonly known that you can use the same set of dies for loading .38 Specials. (Which I do load a lot of.)

A moment ago I was working on getting some 9mm brass cleaned up and ready for priming, when the thought occurred to me -- can you use your 9mm dies to load .380 with? Anyone out there tried this? Any reason not to do it? Thanks! :D

Corner Pocket

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ole farmerbuck
December 17, 2009, 08:55 AM
thats a good question. I'm glad you asked instead of me in case someone says its ......well you know.:) But really, i have been thinking about asking but decided to order a set of 380 dies yesterday.

Randy1911
December 17, 2009, 09:51 AM
No you can't. The cases are a different size by a few thousanths. Even the shellholder is different. The only thing the same is primer and bullet (diameter that is).

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 09:55 AM
Right. No, you can't. Although I am sure some have done it, it won't work well because of the differences in case size.

Case dimensions at Handloader.com (http://www.handloads.com/articles/cartridge.htm)

loadedround
December 17, 2009, 09:55 AM
Tried to that about 30 years ago...won't work period.

243winxb
December 17, 2009, 09:57 AM
Lees list Interchangeable dies

Frequently, dies from caliber may be used to load other calibers. Due to the locations of crimping shoulders, the operation may only work for dies of the shorter caliber to the longer.

You may notice a label depicting the shorter die in your set for the longer version of the cartridge, we do this to reduce costs.

45 Colt - 454 Casull *
44 Special - 44 Magnum
38 Special - 357 Magnum
357 Magnum - 357 Maximum
38 Super - 9 mm Largo
44 Russian - 44 Special
40 Smith & Wesson - 10 mm - 41 Action Express
32 Smith & Wesson - 32 S&W Long - 32 H&R Magnum **

*The 45 Colt expander die will also work for the 454 Casull, by backing the die out approximately two turns to compensate for the difference in case length.

**Our dies allow the use of .308 bullets in the 32 H&R Magnum. The other bullet diameter commonly used is .311 and that is the expander that comes with the set. To use .308 bullets, it is necessary to purchase an additional expander and turn it down to .308. This can be done using a drill press and emery cloth or if you buy the additional expander from the factory, we will do it for $10.00.

Corner Pocket
December 17, 2009, 11:39 AM
Many thanks for the prompt, helpful replies.

Though the 9mm casings are obviously longer than .380, I would have guessed that the casings were otherwise the same size. But whipping out my trusty caliper and measuring them shows the 9mm (at the case mouth) has an OD of .374 and the .380 OD is .371. That's good to know. Thanks again! :D

CP

rcmodel
December 17, 2009, 01:39 PM
The 9mm case is tapered .011" and the .380 is tapered .001".

SO, the base of a 9mm case is .391" and a .380 base is only .374".

Quite a differance.

rc

dmazur
December 17, 2009, 01:39 PM
Though I have no experience, I believe that normal .45ACP dies can be used to reload .460 Rowland, too.

(not related to OP's question, but another "dual purpose" die for the list...)

zxcvbob
December 17, 2009, 01:45 PM
No, 9mm and .380 take different dies.
You can use .38 Special dies to resize 9mm, but it overworks the brass. I haven't tried it for .380; that might actually work.

I'm gonna try using 9mm dies to load .38 S&W this weekend. (next on the list is .30 Carbine dies + a .223 shellholder to reload 7.62 Nagant Revolver)

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 03:29 PM
.38 S&W uses a larger sizer than .38 Spl, so you really will be squeezing the snot out of them with a 9MM sizer.

zxcvbob
December 17, 2009, 03:42 PM
But I won't be squeezing the snot out of the case heads; that's the important end :-) Since the 9mm dies are tapered, I can adjust the amount of sizing by raising the die a bit. I don't think it'll be necessary tho' because .38 S&W's are a little shorter than 9mm.

If it doesn't work, I'll buy a set of .38 S&W dies. (or 9mm Makarov... ;))

Galil5.56
December 17, 2009, 04:12 PM
According to Lyman, their die set 7680116 loads both 38 Super and .38 S&W.

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 04:21 PM
Interesting. I will have to mic my .38 Super & .38 S&W sizer dies when I get home. I just don't see my .38 S&W die sizing .38 Super enough, especially since I had to get a Lee U die for .38 Super, but I might be surprised. Might as well mic my two .38/.357 sizers as well.

Venado
December 17, 2009, 05:01 PM
I use .45 LC for .45 acp. No bulge when using lead bullets, greater powder capacity, less stress on the brass. Fits perfectly in the chamber.

rcmodel
December 17, 2009, 05:25 PM
I use .45 LC for .45 acp.DO tell us more.

The only .45 ACP's I know of have .45 ACP chamber shoulders, and .45 Colt won't fit in them all the way.

Revolvers made for .45 ACP in moon clips won't work with .45 Colt cases because of the same headspace shoulder in the chambers.

Plus if you trim them short enough to fit, the .060" rim of a .45 Colt is way too thin to headspace properly in a .45 ACP revolver with .089" rim clearance for clips & Auto-Rim cartridges.

rc

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 06:43 PM
.38 Spl sizer - .371

.38 S&W sizer - .376

.38 Super sizer - .375

.38 Super sizer "U" die - .373

------------------------------------------------------------

.380 sizer - .371 to .365

9MM sizer - .379 to .371

Of course other dies will be a bit different due to manufacturing tolerances, but this gives us a good idea of how they match up.

According to Lyman, their die set 7680116 loads both 38 Super and .38 S&WCertainly looks feasible.

But I won't be squeezing the snot out of the case heads; that's the important end :-) Since the 9mm dies are tapered, I can adjust the amount of sizing by raising the die a bit.Looks doable. Neck sizing with a 9MM sizer.

jcwit
December 17, 2009, 06:47 PM
I use the 38 Auto dies to reload 9mm Largo. There are slight differences but I have no trouble with feeding or going into battery or ignition. Of course I use load data for 9mm Largo, not other cartridges.

Venado
December 17, 2009, 07:40 PM
DO tell us more.

Sorry, I was in a hurry. I am refering to using the .45LC resizing die for .45 acp.

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 09:16 PM
If you are getting enough neck tension doing it, it will work, but .45 Colt sizers are definitely bigger than .45 ACP sizers. My .45 Colt sizer is bigger than my biggest .45 ACP sizer, and my biggest .45 sizer won't work with thin Remington brass, so it certainly wouldn't work with the Colt sizer.

zxcvbob
December 17, 2009, 09:23 PM
I've had trouble before with thin (Remington?) .45LC brass and .451 bullets, so I used a .30-06 die backed way out to "neck size" the cases (same as using a .45 ACP die) They sort of looked like .44-40 cartridges when I was done. It worked OK but seemed kind of kludgy, even for me.

rcmodel
December 18, 2009, 04:22 PM
I am refering to using the .45LC resizing die for .45 acp.
The .45 ACP case is slightly tapered from .476" at the head to .473" at the mouth.

The .45 Colt case is a straight .480" all the way.

Sounds like a good way to have bullet set-back pressure excursions in an auto-loader to me.

rc

kanook
December 18, 2009, 05:02 PM
I just don't see my .38 S&W die sizing .38 Super enough, especially since I had to get a Lee U die for .38 Super, but I might be surprised.My LEE carbide 38 S&W 3 die says 38 auto on the sizer/deprimer

Walkalong
December 18, 2009, 06:25 PM
Did you miss post #17? ;) :)

kanook
December 18, 2009, 06:46 PM
Nope, from post #14 you say what I quoted, then you did post #17 the lyman dies. I justed noted what Lee dies say.

rg1
December 18, 2009, 08:41 PM
One application of a 9MM sizing die is for .38 Special brass that is thin and bullets are not tight in the thinner brass using a .38/357 sizing die. I've ran into some thin .38 Special brass that would not grip the bullets tight enough. You could push the bullet further into the case with thumb pressure. Running the 9MM sizer down the .38 case just past where the bullet base stops tightened the case-bullet fit.

cmgred
December 18, 2009, 09:13 PM
I had the same question and asked RCBS, their answer was absolutely not. After buying both calibers and comparing, they are correct, it will not work. Check out the case dimensions and you'll see the difference.

Noveldoc
December 20, 2009, 03:20 PM
9 mm cases are tapered.

Tom

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