Sterling or AR for 9mm carbine...or other


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CMP
December 17, 2009, 11:33 AM
So Iím looking for a 9mm carbine and I really like the looks of those Sterlings but havenít handled one. My brothers telling me to go with an AR in 9mm the only reason I didnít really want to go the AR way was because of expense. He thinks I will be a lot happier with the AR. Which I probably would, but I havenít handled the Sterling. What do you guys think?
Is there another 9mm carbine out there that would be better?

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chevyforlife21
December 17, 2009, 11:40 AM
hi point ts,ruger pc9, marlin camp 9, keltec... hi point is a good gun with life time warnty for under 300

mcdonl
December 17, 2009, 11:54 AM
I have a Hi-Point 995TS. Much fun to shoot, but only a 10 round magazine if that matters to you.

Cabelas has them brand new for $225.

The Keltec is nice too, I have shot them and it performed about the same as the HP in my hands.

I do not know anything about the other two, but I love Ruger's in general.

Z-Michigan
December 17, 2009, 12:36 PM
I don't see any reason for a 9mm carbine any more, but if you really want one I would go the AR route.

The Ruger PC9 is a solid piece but is discontinued and notorious for difficult dissassembly and reassembly.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 17, 2009, 12:53 PM
SIBAISIA (Said it before and I'll say it again).

To me, a 9mm carbine fulfills no actual role as a tool, unless it's an SBR, suppressed, and/or full auto one. Therefore, if not doing 2 of those 3 things at least, such a carbine is first & foremost (solely really) a FUN GUN / NOOB GUN.

So make it as FUN as possible, and/or keep it cheap: Calico (High cap), Uzi clone (fun/historical), Ingram clone (fun/historical), Hi-point (cheap), MPA 971 (takes 71 round suomo drums), Tech 9 (for dry firing at the TV while watching gangsta rap videos), etc., etc. :p In your case, definitely go with the Sterling.

Just my .02.

9mm AR - why would you spend that kind of money on THAT? Even if you were going to SBR & supress it, a .300 whisper or .338 spectre makes a lot more sense if shelling out that kind of dough, if trying to make a serious tool out of it.

chevyforlife21
December 17, 2009, 01:07 PM
if you were gonna spend a grand on a ar get a .223/5.56 dont get a 9mm. iof you want a cheaper gun with cheaper ammo get a 9mm

ArmedBear
December 17, 2009, 01:13 PM
such a carbine is first & foremost (solely really) a FUN GUN / NOOB GUN.


Couldn't agree more. All the firepower you could keep in a pocket, in a rifle-sized gun.

And 9mm used to be 10 cents a round for bulk ammo. It isn't any more.

Therefore, a 9mm carbine is not a good plinkertoy, either. At 25 cents per round, or more, a short-range semiauto becomes un-fun, really fast -- pretty much as soon as the novelty wears off.

9mm AR - why would you spend that kind of money on THAT?

Again, I fully agree. If you want a plinker, get a .22LR upper, not a 9mm upper. .22LR uppers are fun -- literally everyone who has shot mine has wanted to run out and buy their own. And if you want a practical carbine, get a worthwhile long gun chambering, not 9mm.

If you want a pistol caliber carbine that has real versatility, fun factor, and decent ballistic potential, get a .357 lever gun and reload .38s for it, to plink with.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 17, 2009, 01:24 PM
Again, I fully agree. If you want a plinker, get a .22LR upper, not a 9mm upper. .22LR uppers are fun -- literally everyone who has shot mine has wanted to run out and buy their own. And if you want a practical carbine, get a worthwhile long gun chambering, not 9mm.

Exactly - get a .22 upper AR or other fun semi .22.

Andrew Wyatt
December 17, 2009, 02:28 PM
the pistol caliber carbines make good house guns, IMHO, because they're easier to shoot and aren't that loud compared to a pistol.

I'd rather have one over a shotgun or a pistol in the house.

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 02:44 PM
9mm AR - why would you spend that kind of money on THAT?Therefore, a 9mm carbine is not a good plinkertoy, either.
That kind of money? Cause it's cheaper, lower recoil practice with the AR platform.

Not a good plinker toy? Why not, just because .22 LR is cheaper. 9mm is still pretty inexpensive compared to other calibers, and .22 LR gets boring sometimes due to lack of recoil.

I cannot shoot anything cheaper than 9MM (except for .32 ACP, Long & Mag - .38 Spl is close) except for .22 LR. (Free brass helps. Thank you non reloaders) I love shooting my 9MM AR. I can assure you one would not want me shooting at them with it. Yea, a .223 etc AR is more effective in the same package, but I am not not arguing that it is for self defense, just a range toy that would be very effective on two legged bad guys if there was no better option at hand. Love my 9MM AR.

If Alabama would let me, you betcha, I'd SBR it. :D , but they won't. :(

A .22 LR upper is on the wish list. ;)

And if you want a practical carbine, get a worthwhile long gun Did that long before the 9MM fun gun upper, so I'm good there.

ArmedBear
December 17, 2009, 02:45 PM
The AR upper is only if you must have a tacticool .22, that's true. A Marlin 60 is just as fun to shoot, and a lot cheaper.:)

WRT carbines in a house, I think they're fine if you want to stand in the open and shoot. If you want to turn corners, take cover, etc., a pistol is a hell of a lot better. And if you can't easily hit a man-sized target at indoor distances with a decent pistol, spend the money on practice ammo, not a carbine!

.22 LR gets boring sometimes due to lack of recoil.


9mm and .223 don't have any real recoil, either -- not that I think that something tapping my shoulder harder or softer has anything to do with boredom. Boredom comes from a failure to challenge one's ability.

zhyla
December 17, 2009, 02:48 PM
the pistol caliber carbines make good house guns, IMHO, because they're easier to shoot and aren't that loud compared to a pistol.

I'd rather have one over a shotgun or a pistol in the house.

Why do people always bring up noise when talking about HD guns? I don't like how my HD gun gets blood all over the place when I defend my home either, but that's the least of my worries. But anyways, just a pet peeve.

If you're going to go to a long gun you might as well bump up to a rifle round. I think even small women can train with a .223 without issue. Not that 9mm won't get the job done, just that it doesn't have any advantage over a .223. Maybe sharing the same cartridge as your pistols is an advantage.

Let's remember why 9mm carbines came to be: control in full-auto mode.

Walkalong
December 17, 2009, 02:51 PM
In a house? You betcha, a pistol vs a pistol caliber carbine. Besides, if I know I am going to a gun fight, I won't bring the 9MM carbine, don't worry.

I guess we aren't helping the OP much with his question though.

I have a Sub-2000 9MM and it is great. Packable, accurate, dependable.

I had a CX4 Storm and sold it to buy the 9MM AR upper. The Storm was great. Accurate, dependable versatile, but ugly and I wanted a 9MM AR.

Never held a Sterling.

ArmedBear
December 17, 2009, 02:54 PM
Maybe sharing the same cartridge as your pistols is an advantage.


If I have a 9mm pistol, I have zero need for a 9mm carbine...


Let's remember why 9mm carbines came to be: control in full-auto mode.

Exactly. They were designed as short-range handheld machine guns for special operations and the like. Almost anything bigger is hard to hold on target in full-auto.

They offer almost nothing in semiauto, that a pistol can't do in a much smaller package.

I have a Sub-2000 9MM and it is great. Packable

Sure, but why would you want to pack it?:D

Z-Michigan
December 17, 2009, 03:11 PM
Why do people always bring up noise when talking about HD guns? I don't like how my HD gun gets blood all over the place when I defend my home either, but that's the least of my worries. But anyways, just a pet peeve.

A very good point.

jmorris
December 17, 2009, 03:12 PM
9mm AR - why would you spend that kind of money on THAT? Even if you were going to SBR & supress it, a .300 whisper or .338 spectre makes a lot more sense if shelling out that kind of dough, if trying to make a serious tool out of it.


I guess you haven’t spent any time forming 300 whisper brass or pricing projectiles. The 9mm is about as cheap as it gets and you don’t have to bother tracking down every piece of brass.

If you are thinking in terms of using it for hunting, the 300 whisper is not a bad suppressed round but it’s awfully anemic when compared to the 458 socom. If you are going subsonic at least chunk a big hunk of lead and a 500 grain bullet is much more effective than a 220 grain, not to mention the speeds that the bullets are designed to expand at.

I have had a camp 9 from the time they were introduced and decided to get a 9mm ar upper after I got into building suppressors on form 1’s. It’s a fun toy and quite accurate. If I had to have a need for every firearm I owned, I could tell my wife how many there are.


http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o213/jmorrismetal/can/DSC01669.jpg

Andrew Wyatt
December 17, 2009, 03:16 PM
They offer almost nothing in semiauto, that a pistol can't do in a much smaller package.

They're several orders of magnitude easier to shoot. I will take any centerfire rifle over any pistol any day of the week if i don't have to hide it.

Dr.Rob
December 17, 2009, 03:24 PM
CMMG is listing their M4LE 9mm flat top carbine at $899 in this month's CDNN catalog. Honestly, at that price break can't imagine why you'd be looking at a Sterling.

briansmithwins
December 17, 2009, 03:52 PM
The 9mm AR carbines I've seen have had feeding and extraction problems. They mostly fired, including out of battery firing.

When I was looking for a 9mm long arm to shoot at matches where rifles aren't allowed I passed on the AR platform. I went with the Uzi instead. I played with it for a year and then did the SBR thing. I'm very happy with it for it's purpose, as a fun training tool. It's the last long arm I'd grab for social work. I'd still take it over any pistol as control and accuracy are much better. BSW

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/IMG_1534.jpg

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/IMG_5951Medium.jpg

phrogpilot
December 17, 2009, 04:19 PM
Interesting points made in this thread. I agree that there really isn't any "practical" reason to own a 9mm carbine. But heck; if practicality was a requirement for gun ownership, 90% of my collection would be gone.

I own a Hi-Point 9mm carbine and a Keltec Sub-2000 (Glock mags). I like them both, and really enjoy plinking, target shooting and letting inexperienced shooters enjoy a low recoil "rifle". The Hi-Points are ugly, crude, accurate and reliable. The KelTec is novel, I think good looking, accurate, totally reliable and with the 33 rd Glock mags filled with +P HPs, more than capable of defending the homestead.

One other consideration for me; two of the ranges I shoot at don't allow rifle ammunition to be fired; therefore I get my winter long gun fix with these two plus my favorite, a Uberti Winchester 1866 clone in .45 colt.

I do reload my own pistol ammo and think nothing of launching 500 rounds in a range session. If I were paying retail, I might think differently.

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
December 17, 2009, 04:48 PM
guess you havenít spent any time forming 300 whisper brass or pricing projectiles.

No I have not. But I don't think I'd mind picking them up. Formation - I thought you could just buy the brass already formed from Starline or someone - no?

The 9mm is about as cheap as it gets and you donít have to bother tracking down every piece of brass.

True.

If you are thinking in terms of using it for hunting, the 300 whisper is not a bad suppressed round but itís awfully anemic when compared to the 458 socom.

True, but not that important, really - suppressors are illegal for hunting here, so I'd use something less anemic, all right - and it sure wouldn't be either subsonic or quiet. No reason to go subsonic if you're not going to suppress it. The ROLE of the .300 whisper is a 'tactical' one, if you'll forgive my use of that word, in place of the 9mm - one with very little recoil and thus very fast follow up shots and good on full-auto. But good point - the big bore rounds do make a lot more sense if *for some reason* you were going to hunt with something loaded subsonically.


If you are going subsonic at least chunk a big hunk of lead and a 500 grain bullet is much more effective than a 220 grain,


not to mention the speeds that the bullets are designed to expand at.

That is a good point, too. The 9mm pistol bullet will perform better terminally at short ranges than the typical .300 whisper bullet.

I have had a camp 9 from the time they were introduced and decided to get a 9mm ar upper after I got into building suppressors on form 1ís. Itís a fun toy and quite accurate.

Coolness.

CMP
December 17, 2009, 08:40 PM
Well guys I already have the .22 ar and .223/5.56. I live in Michigan so the SBR and silenced anything is out. For me this is going to be a fun gun for me so it doesnt matter if its practical or not. If I where to get a 16in barreled uzi is vector the way to go? not sayin im gonna get it just lookin around, im gonna get one

briansmithwins
December 17, 2009, 08:47 PM
I may be wrong but I think you need the 18" barrel for MI as they measure the OAL with the stock closed. BSW

CMP
December 17, 2009, 08:51 PM
I like the wood stock any way

Z-Michigan
December 17, 2009, 09:03 PM
Michigan prohibits any rifle or shotgun that is operable when shorter than 26.0" (stock folded or collapsed). This catches some versions of the Uzi carbine, and not much else.

For the time being, Michigan also requires handgun registration for any rifle or shotgun that is between 26.0" and 30.0" in length when in any operable configuration. This catches a fair number of guns, both folding and fixed stock. This is only a nuisance (pistol registration), not a prohibition, and has a good chance of being repealed in the near future.

I believe that BATFE measures length with the stock extended, which is why there are some guns that are perfectly legal under federal law but not in Michigan.

cz85cmbt
December 17, 2009, 11:02 PM
Go with a keltec. Right around 300 dollars. Can group 2" with any ammo at 50 yds. I've seen some tests that get 2-3" groups with premium ammo at 100 yds. Folds up to 16". Can take glock, s&w, and berretta mags.

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