Need a bolt rifle recommendation for 7.62x39


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<SLV>
December 19, 2009, 01:42 PM
I know... why? Well, I already reload this rifle caliber and don't want to add another. I'd like something with a 20+ inch barrel and good accuracy. It isn't a big deal, but I'd like to find something left-handed.

So far, here are the choices I've found in bolt 7.62x39:

Browning A-bolt (hard to find)
CZ (only 18.5" barrel and ugly shrouded sight... maybe this is enough to get long range accuracy?)
Remington break action (20" barrel)
TC Encore break action (ugly gun)
Ruger Hawkeye Compact (16" barrel)

Doesn't Savage, Tikka, or anyone else make a quality standard hunting bolt gun in 7.62x39? I'm just looking for a normal bolt gun in this caliber.

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R.W.Dale
December 19, 2009, 01:45 PM
Doesn't Savage, Tikka, or anyone else make a quality standard hunting bolt gun in 7.62x39? I'm just looking for a normal bolt gun in this caliber.

Nope!

Remington break action (20" barrel)
TC Encore break action (ugly gun)

Skip these Ive owned both and they didn't shoot any better than your average SKS

Ruger DID make a 7.62x39 M77mlII in rifle format if you can find one

rcmodel
December 19, 2009, 01:49 PM
An CZ with an 18.5" barrel will get all the "long range accuracy" a 7.62x39 has going for it.

It is not a "long-range" caliber to start with.

rc

Cosmoline
December 19, 2009, 01:55 PM
That "ugly shrouded sight" is one of the best iron sight systems in current production.

The CZ is the best thing going this side of a heavy barrel bench rifle.

R.W.Dale
December 19, 2009, 01:59 PM
That "ugly shrouded sight" is one of the best iron sight systems in current production.


I guess I'm the odd man out. I likened the pretty much non adjustable sights found on my 527 carbine to the sights found on a m1911a1 pistol,a really really poor excuse for rifle sights in my opinion and a step down from what an SKS or AK would come with.....heck at least those are adjustable for elevation.

Now if CZ would see fit to make a 527 carbine with tangent sights in " 452 trainer" Format that would be a real winner

armoredman
December 19, 2009, 03:14 PM
I'd go CZ 527 myself, and maybe next year, I will, too.

Hesenwine
December 19, 2009, 03:26 PM
I have the Remington SPR18 (I think) in 7.62 X 39 that's about to go back to the factory for repair.

They're made in Russia but not made poorly. The extractor on mine requires the use of pliers to remove fired cases.

There are damm few 7.62 X 39 rifles available that aren't of the AK variety.

I also have a Mini 30 which can barely keep 5 shots on a 9" paper plate at 100 yds.

I reload the cartridge as well, which is why I got the Remington. H&R doesn't make their Handi-Rifles in 7.62 and thr Rossi's seem to be pretty scarce for whatever reason.

Good luck with your search.

NCsmitty
December 19, 2009, 03:58 PM
The company that imports Saiga has a bolt in 7.62x39 and other calibers. No idea on pricing.

www.raacfirearms.com/Bars_4-1.htm



NCsmitty

R.W.Dale
December 19, 2009, 04:22 PM
My rem spr18 had a badly out of round chamber. I had it reamed to 303 but even then it was by no means a tackdriver

<SLV>
December 19, 2009, 07:04 PM
The Remington has a clean barrel of 20", but it doesn't have a great trigger and the stock is laminated "brown wood". The CZ has an ugly barrel of 18.5", but it has a great single set trigger and walnut stock. The Remington is cheaper... but...

I'm still looking for a picture of the Ruger M77 MkII...

<SLV>
December 19, 2009, 07:12 PM
Found some pictures of the Ruger M77 MkII - I think that is what I need! Looks like it is hard to find.

R.W.Dale
December 19, 2009, 07:17 PM
I had forgotten about the bolt action Remington-Zastava model 799 which is avalible with a 20"bbl.

Sadly these are also discontinued

jonnyc
December 19, 2009, 07:22 PM
Special Interest Arms makes a kit to build a 7.62x39 Enfield No.4 rifle.

Uncle Mike
December 19, 2009, 07:23 PM
Check with the Savage Custom Shop...they may do it.

johnwayne91
December 19, 2009, 07:25 PM
i have a 1954 romanian 7.62x 54 m44 it does the john long or short ive takin down threehundred brown bear no problem when it came down to it took it right out pierces empty propane cans like carboard

johnwayne91
December 19, 2009, 07:28 PM
im also looking for another cheap good firing weapon dont matter of make an year, where or who can get or give me a good deal that i cant pass up just email it to me jauberlin91@live.com

lopezni
December 19, 2009, 08:47 PM
Or, why not spend your money on a rifle chambered in a good caliber?

R.W.Dale
December 19, 2009, 09:12 PM
Or, why not spend your money on a rifle chambered in a good caliber?
Define "good caliber"


I can show you a half MOA 7.62x39 if you want.

federalfarmer
December 19, 2009, 09:57 PM
The leftie's of the world should by ALOT of guns and share them on some kind-of really cool library card system! :evil:

+1 on the Ruger

project88
December 20, 2009, 01:50 AM
fn has a 7.62x39 bolt gun with a 20" barrel based off a scaled down pre'64 win. m70 action...here's the link http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF008&gid=FNG005&mid=FNM0135

<SLV>
December 20, 2009, 09:03 AM
Thanks, on the FN! That looks sweet (probably out of my price range).

PT1911
December 20, 2009, 09:07 AM
i second the CZ 527... i i have the varmint version in .223 (hs precision Kevlar stock) ... LOVE that gun... one hell of a shooter.. if any format can bring out the potential of the 7.62x39, it is that gun.

Wyo_F-A
December 20, 2009, 11:24 AM
I own a Ruger M77 chambered in 7.62x39 I bought as a companion to my Mini-30. It shoots well and I feel it makes effective use of the potential of commercially available 7.62x39 rounds. I ordered it off of galleryofguns.com and had it shipped to a local dealer. I can't remember what I paid for it, but the MSRP is around $800.

snakeman
December 20, 2009, 11:36 AM
cz 527, BARS 4-1, or rebarrel an oldie with a 223 sized action.

JTH
December 20, 2009, 12:09 PM
This was a a question I had thought about but hadn't asked. I'm by far an authority on rifles. All I know is most semi-auto rifles are not nearly as accurate, due to the muzzle rise, when comparing a similar rnd in a bolt action rifle. It seems that the 7.62x39 rnd in a good bolt action rifle would/should be very good rnd. I realize you can get different results with a different load in the same cal. bullet. My point being, to keep only a couple of weapons that shoot the same rnds for budget reasons. I'm sure my SKS(best choice for deer hunting rifle) or AK would be fine for deer hunting but not very effective over 75-100 yard shot. Hope this made sense!

R.W.Dale
December 20, 2009, 01:16 PM
I disagree

With proper loads in an accurate platform 7.62x39 makes a fine 200 to 250 yd deer cartridge. Contrary to popular wisdom 3000 fps and a case belt are not required to kill Bambi past 100 yds

see the sig links for more

<SLV>
December 20, 2009, 02:21 PM
That FN looks like the best platform for a long-distance 7.62x39. I reload, so I will be building accuracy loads, and I expect it would be a cinch at 300 yards. I've read that the Ruger "noodle barrel" starts walking off after 3 rounds. The Remington doesn't even claim to be a 1 MOA gun, nor do any owners report it can do so.

I've thought about doing a build like Krochus. I like the idea of a .308 barrel -- would give a lot more bullet options.

I'm still looking for a retail price on the FN TSR.

R.W.Dale
December 20, 2009, 02:27 PM
I've thought about doing a build like Krochus. I like the idea of a .308 barrel -- would give a lot more bullet options.

It does, but don't discount simply shooting .308" in a .310" bbl. The results may surprise you
http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=2274479#post2274479


I had no knowledge of that FN......verily that is a sweet setup

I've read that the Ruger "noodle barrel" starts walking off after 3 rounds.

I think you're applying the Ruger mini30 wandering zero to the M77 which in my experience suffers from no such issue

<SLV>
December 20, 2009, 03:59 PM
What do you guys think of an Enfield 4 conversion? I would think that the sturdier .303 action and barrel would be tight shooting in the lesser powered 7.62x39. Looks like I could get a basic kit from Special Interest Arms for $200 and pay a gunsmith to cut down the chamber and re-thread the barrel, modify the boll face, and modify the trigger guard to accept AK magazines. If I understand it correctly, the shape of a .303 cartridge is identical to the 7.62x39 at the top making it unnecessary to ream out the chamber.

If I go this route, what should be done to the Enfield to make it more accurate? Float the barrel?

M1key
December 20, 2009, 04:12 PM
I owned the Ruger MKII with Leupold 4x. It shot 125 Sierra .312 spire point handloads into .65 inches at 100 yards. A DANDY light-weight hunting rifle...

A fellow in NM got himself a write-up in The American Rifleman by rechambering No.4 SMLEs in 7.62x54 Russian. They made for one very accurate and inexpensive shooter.

R.W.Dale
December 20, 2009, 04:47 PM
and pay a gunsmith to cut down the chamber and re-thread the barrel, modify the boll face, and modify the trigger guard to accept AK magazines.

yeah but you're talking about 3 or 4 hundred dollars worth of gunsmithing on top of a $200 kit and a $150 rifle. All for a rifle that may or may not shoot and feed well

for that kind of cash you're well into a dedicated AR15 upper and well above what a CZ527 costs

<SLV>
December 20, 2009, 05:32 PM
That's a good point about the cost of smithing. I found a contoured barrel blank (.308 Stainless Steel, 1:10, 21") on clearance for only $70. Maybe I should have it chambered and installed on another bolt gun rather than convert an SMLE.

R.W.Dale
December 20, 2009, 05:37 PM
Since I mentioned to you that MY 7.62x39imp bolt gun is as single shot only Ive had the opportunity to look at a new center-feed stevens 200 in .223rem. This new magazine might indeed feed 7.62x39 cartreidges

project88
December 20, 2009, 05:40 PM
with the fn i'm not possitive but i think they run around 8-900 but dont quote me on that becasue i could be wrong...i've seen fn's on the rack around here for 900-1000 for 308s but never seen the 223 or 7.62x39

<SLV>
December 20, 2009, 05:45 PM
So if I re-barrel a .223 Stevens 200 the action/bolt will be large enough to serve the 7.62x39? Looks like a cheap platform to work with. I like the idea of having magazine fed.

krochus, can you detail the necessary smithing/mods you did to convert your gun?

R.W.Dale
December 20, 2009, 05:54 PM
So if I re-barrel a .223 Stevens 200 the action/bolt will be large enough to serve the 7.62x39? Looks like a cheap platform to work with. I like the idea of having magazine fed.

krochus, can you detail the necessary smithing/mods you did to convert your gun?
potential magazine issues aside all I had to do was

order a 100% drop in shilen barrel $300
have the .223 bolt face opened up to .445" $freebie
and a little hand filing or reprofiling of the .223 extractor $DIY


the .223 Stevens 200 action size is the same as for a 308 so no problem there

rangerruck
December 21, 2009, 01:38 AM
CZ... you will never, ever regret it; especially with a single set trigger.

<SLV>
December 21, 2009, 12:28 PM
Wouldn't a Stevens magazine in .22-250 be more likely to feed the 7.62x39 case than the .223? I would think that although it is a little long, the case width is much more similar. But maybe the bolt face is too large (?).

Why did you choose the Shilen barrel? Was it the only drop-in option? Did it come standard with the .308 bore? Is this a "wildcat"? I've seen some barrel makers refer to 7.62x39 Lapua - is that the 7.62x39 with a .308 bore?

Sorry for all the questions! I'm thinking that it might be the most rewarding to build my own bolt gun rather than purchasing one. Is the trigger any good on the Stevens?

R.W.Dale
December 21, 2009, 01:03 PM
I wouldn't go with the 22-250 or other .473" action for a couple of reasons

the .473" case head is much larger than x39's .445" so you'll need a opened up .223 bolt face anyway

and if the feed lips are too short for x39 you're sunk. If you stay with a .223 mag you can always trim back or bend the magazine feed lips if need be.

Why did you choose the Shilen barrel? Was it the only drop-in option? Did it come standard with the .308 bore?

For a drop in 7.62x39 bbl shilen or possibly mcgowan are going to be your only choices. I wanted a very accurate bbl so I opted for a shilen select match with a 1-16" twist with a .308" bore. AFIK nobody in the us makes a .30 cal bbl with a larger than .308" bore

Is this a "wildcat"?
Sorta but not really, I still shoot factory ammo as do folks with early model .308 bored Ruger mini 30's

I've seen some barrel makers refer to 7.62x39 Lapua - is that the 7.62x39 with a .308 bore?


Honestly I haven't figured that one out yet

Is the trigger any good on the Stevens?
It's not bad if you take time to adjust the overtravel and pull (factory doesn't bother)

I run an aftermarket rifle basix sav1 trigger now

<SLV>
December 21, 2009, 03:15 PM
Thanks, krochus. Wal-Mart can order me a Stevens 200 in .223 for $310. I think this is the best price I've seen anywhere. I might end up going this route because I would be happier with the final performance, and there would be an added sense of achievement having built it myself.

Is there a good picatinny scope rail for the Stevens rifle? I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 tactical turret (mil-dot) that I'm planning for this rifle. I want to keep the scope center as close to bore center as possible.

Also, it looks like the Choate stock doesn't work with the new center feed Savage action. I'd love to see a synthetic bench stock like the Magpul PRS for it!

OpelBlitz
December 22, 2009, 01:07 PM
No one's mentioned the Australian International Arms M10-A2 -- I love mine, but I'm trying to get rid of my rifles of the 7.62x39 caliber. Want it? :)

Shoots great, I can get between 1-2MOA. And contrary to most people's ramblings, I rarely, if ever, get FTF's. Accepts AK magazines and is a bit heavy.

FMJMIKE
December 22, 2009, 08:41 PM
I had a Remington 799 and it sucked !!!! Sold it quick

project88
December 23, 2009, 01:50 AM
Is there a good picatinny scope rail for the Stevens rifle? I have a Bushnell Elite 3200 10x40 tactical turret (mil-dot) that I'm planning for this rifle. I want to keep the scope center as close to bore center as possible.

egw and badger both make picatinny rails for the stevens( i believe its the same mounts as the savage 110 but not possitive)

<SLV>
February 16, 2010, 08:28 AM
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DIM
February 16, 2010, 09:24 AM
Here is BARS-4-1
http://www.raacfirearms.com/images/p_bars4-1.jpg

chambered for 7.62x39, 22" barrel priced $425
http://www.gunsamerica.com/964444008/Guns/Rifles/Izhmash-Rifles/Izhmash_BARS_4_1_7_62x39.htm

or just read story by Randy Smith about 7.62x39 bolt action rifles http://www.chuckhawks.com/bolt_action_7-62x39_rifles.htm

<SLV>
February 16, 2010, 02:20 PM
Drat, DIM. You really got my hopes up. That listing is closed. I've looked all over for one of those. I contacted Randy Smith about his article just last month, and he said he got his several years ago. I also contacted RAA and they are going to get some in later this summer, but they expect them to be priced at $650+.

BTW... it is too bad that the comb rolls over for a righty -- I shoot from the other side.

DIM
February 16, 2010, 10:10 PM
I also contacted RAA and they are going to get some in later this summer, but they expect them to be priced at $650+.


650 that's unrealistic, there should be other way to order it, I know that guys from Russia order our Rem and them getting shipped over seas, of course they pay 5x more. Myself I wouldn't order anything from Russia directly, I think their services are still unreliable.
however try to contact izhmash directly maybe they can do something. http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/bars4.shtml

DIM
February 16, 2010, 10:27 PM
Just found some close-up shots of BARS
http://www.exclusivegun.ru/en/images/3/95.gif
http://www.exclusivegun.ru/en/images/3/101.gif
http://www.exclusivegun.ru/en/images/3/103.gif
http://www.exclusivegun.ru/en/images/3/107.gif

Big Bill
February 16, 2010, 10:28 PM
Ruger 17125 HM77CR Compact Rifle 7.62x39 16-1/2" Blue W

http://www.midwesthuntersoutlet.com/item.aspx?PID=158268&w=PQ%2BJDyOLrQE%3D

Barker45
February 16, 2010, 11:09 PM
This is a no-brainer...get a CZ 527!!! Awesome rifle.

Roo
February 17, 2010, 02:24 AM
No one's mentioned the Australian International Arms M10-A2

I'm glad somebody else is thinking outside the square. Buy an Aussie gun today and help build up the Australian firearm industry! After all, a strong ally is the only sort of ally to have, America.

Sorry, I absolutely had to toot that particular horn.

The 527 carbine sounds like a top choice as well. I have a .22 452 lux and if that is anything to go by, the cz level of quality is fantastic.

bpl
February 17, 2010, 11:46 AM
I thought you Aussie's weren't allowed anything bigger than .22 CB caps! :D

Seriously though, I've never heard of Australian International Arms. They appear to be sporting rifles based off the Enfield, correct?

Rollie
February 17, 2010, 12:32 PM
I bought a CZ 527 in March 2008. I fitted it with a 2 1/2 X scope and with 5 rounds it weighs 6.6 pounds. The groups average under 2 inches at 100 yards. I have shot .850 with a reload ( Sierra 125 ), and 1.080 with wolf steel 124 fmj mil classic, as best groups. A surprise result of a Hornady 100 gr, 312 dia. XTP handgun bullet and H110 powder, gave 1 3/4 groups at 2437 feet/second ! Would seem to be an explosive varmit load. 123 rn Prvi Partzan at 2508 ft/sec, av. just about 2 inches at 100 yds, and might be a fine woods brush round.
With a more powerful scope and maybe younger eyes (I'me 68 ), I am sure better results could be had. I have sold off ALL my other rifles but this one ! The steel case mil ammo is cheap for plinking, and the 125 Sierra handload or the 125 rn Prvi factory would be fine for hunting and varmiting. The action is smooth and the whole gun is a delight.
Love it ! Rollie

Tirod
February 17, 2010, 11:53 PM
Having a 7.62 x 39 that shoots 1/2 MOA is nice, but not the norm. Most won't hold 4MOA with milsurp ammo.

It's why so many were dancing around the OP's request and scraping up the CZ - there aren't many good choices of bolt guns in the caliber. It's no better or worse than .30-30, but that's the point, they are 250 yard calibers.

Not long range bolt gun fodder.

Big Bill
February 18, 2010, 12:10 AM
How dare you compair a 7.62X39 to the venerable 30-30! :)

garyhan
February 18, 2010, 12:16 AM
The Remington 799 (discontinued)in 7.62x39 is currently available at close out prices from CDNN.

gary

Roo
February 18, 2010, 02:50 AM
Seriously though, I've never heard of Australian International Arms. They appear to be sporting rifles based off the Enfield, correct?

You would be correct, bpl, except for the bit about CB's, we recently upgraded from CB's to the ever deadly .22 short :D. There are some small differences from the AIA designs to the original 'smellies' but the basic concept is there. They do have a website which is worth checking out, both for the OP and whoever else.

www.australianinternationalarms.com.au/

<SLV>
February 18, 2010, 08:08 AM
Roo,

AIA is notorious for being technologically challenged (e-mail and website communications). I've heard that the 7.62x39 models have actually been discontinued. I know that Marstar in Canada only carries the 7.62 NATO models.

Can you get the 7.62x39 AIA rifles Down Under?

Lloyd Smale
February 18, 2010, 08:21 AM
find yourself a ruger. there not made anymore but there out there for sale. Usually around 500 bucks. Mine will shoot under an inch with hornady vmaxs at a 100 yards and when and if it ever breaks i dont have to deal with shoddy distributers. I can send it back to ruger and they will fix it.

CornCod
February 18, 2010, 10:46 AM
I am somewhat surprised that 7.62X39 bolt guns have not been very popular. Some hunting types I know have asked me about it, knowing that I am a shooter of Ak's. They are intrigued by the cheapness of X39 ammo, even though they know its not the most intrinsically accurate round ever made.

<SLV>
February 18, 2010, 11:14 AM
CornCod,

The reason 7.62x39 is "not the most intrinsically accurate round ever made" is because MOST of the available ammo is cheap lacquer-coated or steel-jacketed surplus. I think the lack of commercially available quality 7.62x39 hunting ammo has caused the gun makers to back away from bolt guns in this caliber. Ruger had an excellent rifle -- the M77 Mark II -- about 10 years ago (1,000 made, I think). The CZ isn't bad, but I'd like to see a 20"-24" barrel. Yes, I know that all of the powder burns in 18", BUT... just because the powder is all burned does NOT mean that pressure (and velocity) is not still increasing.

I've heard that the Remington Mini-Mauser 799 is a 20" format that is low on quality. CDNN has them on liquidation right now for $349 - special price ends today!

M1key
February 18, 2010, 11:27 AM
^^^What Lloyd Smale said. As posted earlier on this thread, my Ruger M77 would shoot five of my reloads into .75 inches at 100 yards.

R.W.Dale
February 18, 2010, 01:10 PM
I am somewhat surprised that 7.62X39 bolt guns have not been very popular. Some hunting types I know have asked me about it, knowing that I am a shooter of Ak's. They are intrigued by the cheapness of X39 ammo, even though they know its not the most intrinsically accurate round ever made.

Do I really really need to show you the 1/4 to 1/2 MOA 7.62x39mm groups I have?;)

You've got a few posts under your belt now surely you've seen em.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6272324&postcount=39

People think 7.62x39 is inaccurate because the crappy ammo and even crappier guns so chambered are. This is NOT a reflection on the cartridge itself. In fact for all practical purposes (those who don't compete in benchrest) the entire notion of inherent accuracy is a sack full of warm gooey brown stuff shoveled apoun us buy gun writers over the past half century.

Roo
February 18, 2010, 09:15 PM
Can you get the 7.62x39 AIA rifles Down Under?

Are we allowed have them? Yes. Are they in ready supply? I would not know, I have not inquired.

The only 'in the flesh' AIA x39 I have seen is not a pure AIA build, instead being a custom rifle built around an AIA x39 action, owned by a lucky friend of mine. It shoots much better with commercial ammo, or atleast wolf brand stuff, than it does milsurp. No surprises there, though.

I'd say that the AIA guys are not necessarily bad with technology/communication, just very busy with the domestic market. Keep pestering them if it helps you sleep at night.

<SLV>
February 18, 2010, 09:42 PM
Are we allowed have them? Yes. Are they in ready supply? I would not know, I have not inquired.

The only 'in the flesh' AIA x39 I have seen is not a pure AIA build, instead being a custom rifle built around an AIA x39 action, owned by a lucky friend of mine. It shoots much better with commercial ammo, or atleast wolf brand stuff, than it does milsurp. No surprises there, though.

I'd say that the AIA guys are not necessarily bad with technology/communication, just very busy with the domestic market. Keep pestering them if it helps you sleep at night.

I'm buying one right now here in the States. Only the 16" version was ever imported -- I wish it was the 20". From comments I hear by owners I should be real happy with it. It does look nicely finished.

armoredman
February 18, 2010, 09:45 PM
I can say that CZ-USA now offers a picatinny/Weaver rail mount for the CZ527, as well. I am definately getting a 527 carbine, looking forward to this one.

7.62 Nato
February 19, 2010, 01:55 PM
No one's mentioned the Australian International Arms M10-A2 -- I love mine, but I'm trying to get rid of my rifles of the 7.62x39 caliber. Want it? :)

Shoots great, I can get between 1-2MOA. And contrary to most people's ramblings, I rarely, if ever, get FTF's. Accepts AK magazines and is a bit heavy.
How much would this go for ?

kludge
February 19, 2010, 03:04 PM
Is there a Savage/Stevens action available with a PPC bolt face? If not, someone has to have one.

That would eliminate any problems there, then you just need a barrel.

edit:

A 6.5 Grendel bolt face would work too. In fact you might not need to switch out the bolt on a Savage action, just the bolt head.

http://www.superiorshootingsystems.com/ACCESSORIES-CUSTOM_REM_700_BOLT.html <-- Rem 700 bolts

http://sharpshootersupply.com/ <-- Savage bolt heads $75, $45 for a conversion kit

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