[Zoidberg523]

I literally couldn't view the entire page because it made me want to vomit. :barf: :mad:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-bloomberg/gun-show-undercover_b_312339.html

Urgh... though, those familiar with the man (and I use that term loosely) need not even click the link to know that anything with the name "Bloomberg" in it reeks of injustice and the violation of our rights (not to mention the putrid smell of all of his BS). :fire:

[kingpin008]

So what's new? Bloomberg's been at this for awhile now.

[Zoidberg523]

Sadly, you're perfectly correct. It doesn't help though to stay current and vigilant.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

As much as I dislike Bloomberg, its hard to disagree how easy it is for prohibited persons to obtain firearms/ammunition/accessories at a gun show. Its is also hard to disagree that many of the sellers act in a very unscrupulous way. Some certainly have a wanton disregard for the law. Being from NJ and going to shows in PA I have had sellers continue to try and sell me prohibited items even after being informed that I live in NJ and cannot take them back home.

There is definitely a problem at gun shows. The problem is not private sellers. The problem is not the availability of weapons. The problem is the way people act and we as gun owners ought to try and clean up our community. First, would be to draw attention to the real problems, like these people, rather than bury our heads in the sand and scream bad things about Bloomberg.

[USA]

Dark Knight I think the point is there is a such thing as a "prohibited person" and "banned items", not so much as these people who are deemed by the government to not have rights and having access to items banned but constitutionally protected to be in circulation.

[RP88]

I tried to read it, but then when he mentioned that "30% of illegal guns trafficked come from gun shows", I stopped. Remember kids: add a zero after every statistical number in order to get your (lack of a) point across.

[Zoidberg523]

Dark Knight, I agree with you there. Many (if not most) gun show dealers and "private sellers" (many of whom in the video are wearing shirts that say STAFF on them, meaning that they most certainly are not private sellers) give us a bad reputation, and make us all seem unethical. We do need to set ourselves apart from those kind of people, and make it clear to those that the antis are targeting that the vast majority of us are responsible gun owners, and wouldn't be caught dead making an illegal or unethical deal/sale.

It is sad that we need to do this.

[TX1911fan]

So if I went to 7-11s around the country and said "I'm not old enough to buy beer, but will you sell it to me anyway" and I video a couple people saying yes, does that mean we should ban beer? Or make all sales have to be through a government mandated liquor store? And register every bottle of beer to its purchaser?

Or, should we just prosecute jackasses who break the law?

[bababooey32]

As much as I dislike Bloomberg, its hard to disagree how easy it is for prohibited persons to obtain firearms/ammunition/accessories at a gun show.

What makes you (or Bloomberg) think it is limited to "Gun Shows"? The prohibited people in these transactions obtained their weapons from private sellers. As you can see from the Trading Post here at THR, a gun show is not necessary to effect his type of transaction, and it is already illegal for any one to sell a firearm to someone who you believe may not pass a background check. That said, a private seller is not responsible for determining the legal status of a gun buyer any more than he is responsible for determining the status oif a car buyer with regards to a DL and insurance - something professional dealers in both industries ARE responsible for.

There is definitely a problem at gun shows. The problem is not private sellers. The problem is not the availability of weapons. The problem is the way people act

The problem is that there are laws on the books already that make what Bloomberg's "investigators" did illegal. The problem is that Bloomberg and is ilk are not interested in closing any supposed loophole, or ensuruing that gun owners act responsibly. They want to take guns out of the hands of all citizens. They may try to do it incrementally, but make no mistake; that is their goal.

If he were really interested in cleaning up the gunshows, he could simply enforce the law and arrest people that break it without all the grandstanding.

we as gun owners ought to try and clean up our community.

And making all gun-owners responsible for the criminal activity a few sellers is disingenuous. We cannot be held responsible for criminals that happen to ply their trade using guns. That said, I agree that in our own best interest, if you see or suspect illegal activity - report it.

[Cosmoline]

Prosecute the law breakers. Starting with Bloomberg--an organized crime boss who's now admitted to orchestrating dozens of illegal firearm transfers.

[bababooey32]

Or, should we just prosecute jackasses who break the law?


Leave it to a Texan to sum it up in a few, spot on words! +100!! :D

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

Dark Knight I think the point is there is a such thing as a "prohibited person" and "banned items", not so much as these people who are deemed by the government to not have rights and having access to items banned but constitutionally protected to be in circulation.

Regardless of whether there should or should not be, there is. There are people who have been arrested 20+ times. There are people who have no intention of ever doing anything productive with themselves. There are people who are openly suspicious and would gladly buy a gun to sell it to someone like that.

And there are people at gun shows who could care less and would sell them whatever they want, knowingly, and laugh about it.

No one here is saying the answer is to register guns, or ban guns, or eliminate gun shows. You're right, we just "just prosecute jackasses who break the law" and that is what baffles me, that here is video of people breaking a law, and I'm sure plenty of gun shows have shady characters, but people do not want to prosecute these criminals because, meh, they don't like Bloomberg.

[9MMare]

This is new territory for me, so please bear with me. In WA St. many gun shows are run by WAC (Wa Arms Collectors) and members must submit to (& I assume pass) background checks. If you are a member, you can write checks for things purchased at their shows (not sure what else you are entitled to).

Cant this organization, if it so chooses, decide that any seller at show require a bckgrnd check before selling a gun? And that persons leaving the show with firearms show proof? (This would be interesting, since handguns can be easily hidden, but they attempt similar when you enter to make sure guns are disabled. It's mostly on the honor system tho).

Note: these gun shows are set up to do background checks anyway, for new members. It's even possible that this is already required by the WAC...I'm just using this as an example that might be used for controlling illegal gun sales at shows.


Or is the main objection that private sellers shouldnt have to perform real bckgrnd checks? Other reasons?

Anyway, in my example, it would be a way of policing ourselves rather than having new laws imposed.

[Kingofthehill]

How many laws did they break to get this Story? LIke the kid who's sister was killed in the VaTech shooting.. Not being a resident of the state and going to shows around the country to buy guns... HE should be charged for commiting that crime.

I hate these "reports" and their slanted views.

[scoutsabout]

1. Halt unnecessary regulation of firearms -- that is, anything that only affects the law-abiding.

2. Encourage citizens to learn about guns, own them, carry them, and use them against violent criminals.

3. Reinforce the blatant truth that we are individually responsible for ourselves.

** I saw a political cartoon recently, wherein a family was cowaring around a shopping cart while bullets zinged in all directions. The caption was something like "yeah, they decided to arm everyone and let the good guys shoot it out with the bad guys." My knee-jerk reaction was "GOOD IDEA!"

4. We totally out-number the bad guys.

.

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

The "gun show loophole" is a little myth designed to make private sales illegal.

They state that guns can be sold without background checks by private sellers and this is dangerous. Therefore all guns must require a background check, even private sales. However a non FFL cannot use the NICS. And in fact, many states it is illegal for someone to perform a background check on someone except for employment purposes and such. So effectively, it makes all sales dealer-bound, or illegal, and becomes a huge hassle which lowers the number of private sales.

Also, a little background on Bloomberg. He's not an anti gun crusader. He's not a mob boss. Please stop giving him so much credit. He just wants attention. His term as mayor of NYC was up, but he got the law changed and got a 3rd term. But he knows his time is still limited. He needs something to bring him onto the national stage so he can try for something like Senator, etc. He was hoping he could ride the anti-terrorism wave, but Giuliani stole that horse from him (and beat that dead horse to a pulp) so Bloomberg needs a new stunt. He has two to get him attention. One is education. He fired the Superintendent of schools and made himself in charge of all schools in NYC. Second is all his gun show loophole crap. He just needs a big issue to make it look like he cares about something when he decides to move past NYC politics.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has identified gun shows as the source of more than 30% of all illegally trafficked guns in the country.

really?

[wishin]

Now you're talking Dark Knight. This guy spent untold millions of his own money to get elected. Bloomberg's got stars in his eyes.

[bababooey32]

but people do not want to prosecute these criminals because, meh, they don't like Bloomberg.

Can you point to the people that don't want to prosecute criminals? I've not seen evidence of that. Certainly not here.

I'm sure plenty of gun shows have shady characters,

There are just plenty of shady characters period. It's not limited to gun shows or guns or any one industry. The mantra should be to prosecute ALL shady characters.

[KBintheSLC]

I won't read anything with anything from Bloomberg or Huffington in the article. Both of these individuals represent everything that is wrong with liberals today. Therefore, I'll pass on the article.

[happygeek]

I already had an account on the PuffingtonHost.com (that's what The Wall Street Journal calls them anyway). My first reply to said Bloomberg article:


Here's a tragic story from Blomberg's own city, which in his words doesn't have such a bad crime rate:

NYC's ridiculously high cigarette tax led one early 20s male to become an entrepreneur. He'd buy smokes elsewhere, then sell them on the street corner for less than the NYC price. He was making money and saving the local smokers money. Problem is, too many other people had the same business idea as him. To get more business he cut his prices a tad. Of course, his competitors didn't appreciate this and in the spirit of black market competition they stabbed him to death on the street corner.

Who's to blame? The person who actually murdered him? The politicians who created the black market with their taxes? The knife company? Other knife owners who never broke a law in their life? Knife shows?

If he'd been murdered with a pistol and not a knife many in this country would blame the last three on that list.

This is a true story, by the way. I'll post a link to the news article where I read it after a quick Google search. Then again, Bloomberg didn't cite his statistic on 30% of illegal guns coming from gun shows, so ...


Waiting on my follow up to that where I cite a couple newspaper articles [some from the NY Times] to get approved. Hey, I'm kinda bored right now.

[Erik M]

How is it legal for new york detectives to conduct a faux-sting outside thier own city limits, heck even thier own state?

[Dulvarian]

Pretty sure it isn't and that it is a shame that more people aren't able to think for themselves and prosecute the jackasses that pulled the stunt.

[chevyforlife21]

dark knight: i dont know what your saying the gunshows by me are the same thing as going to gander mountain or dicks and buying a gun there is the ffl form, and you need to be all the correct ages to purchase items at the shows just like at the stores

[THE DARK KNIGHT]

dark knight: i dont know what your saying the gunshows by me are the same thing as going to gander mountain or dicks and buying a gun there is the ffl form, and you need to be all the correct ages to purchase items at the shows just like at the stores

For dealer to person sales, yes it is like that in all 50 states. In most of the country, a person can sell another person a gun face to face with no paperwork. Whether at a gun show, in their house, at the range, in a parking lot somewhere, wherever. Not sure if Face to Face is illegal in nNY, but your show in NY may not allow face to face at their show. I go to ones in PA and lots of people walk around with guns, sometimes even have a table, and can just sell guns to other people cash and carry.

[TCB in TN]

As much as I dislike Bloomberg, its hard to disagree how easy it is for prohibited persons to obtain firearms/ammunition/accessories at a gun show.

The problem is that prohibited people are loose.

IF you are to dangerous to be able to buy a gun, then you are to dangerous to be out on the street to begin with! If they are dangerous why are they loose? No law is going to stop a determined prohibited person from acquiring what they want or using it, ever heard of theft??????

This idea that we can prohibit dangerous but free people from performing dangerous acts, is as dumb as it gets!

[gunnie]

..."The problem is that Bloomberg and is ilk are not interested in closing any supposed loophole, or ensuruing that gun owners act responsibly. They want to take guns out of the hands of all citizens. They may try to do it incrementally, but make no mistake; that is their goal."...

yeppir, fairness and equality. saftey of the populus, that's what good ole mikey is ALL about. kinda makes you wonder how they can justify the likelyhood their old police turn-in revolvers are being sold at the same gunshows they filmed?

the reality of the situation:

http://www.jgsales.com/product_info.php/p/smith-wesson-model-64-ny1-38spl%2C-4inch%2C-vapor-hone-finish%2C-good-to-very-good-condition/products_id/3591

ronnie barrett told the people's republic of kalyfornya he would no longer sell to their state agencies, as the law would no longer allow the public to own his .50BMG rifles. now he's warning hawaii about same:

http://www.barrettrifles.com/home/news_articles.aspx?id=50

perhaps the free states should stop allowing NY to "dump" their handguns on our markets, in direct violation of their own rules and stated goals. they should to be able to clear out the entire stock AND required permitting in new york by Y3K!

gunnie

[orionengnr]

It's been said too many times already, but still some fail to grasp the concept:

An inanimate object is not the problem. People who are ready, willing and able to violate the law are the problem.

Banning said object will not solve the problem. Punishing those who choose to violate the law will solve the problem, if we are (as a society) willing to actually do it.

Unfortunately, we (as a society) lack the strength of our convictions, and continually make excuses for individuals who have multiple prior arrests and do not (in most instances) deserve the time of day.

Sorry for the rant, just my observation. Worth exactly what you paid for it.

[MarkDozier]

9MMare
To buy any gun from anyone at the WAC gunshow you must be a member of WAC.

Membership Application

Important Instructions:

This form may be printed and brought with you to our office or show, but must be presented with identification in person.
You must provide a copy of this application which is legible and signed.
You must have a background check performed or provide proof of clear background with your application. This is achieved via one of the following options:
Current dealer license.
Ccurrent C&R license.
Current Law Enforcement ID.
Ccurrent CPL (Concealed Pistol License)
State-issued firearm ownership ID (if applicable from applicant's state of residence).
Include an additional $12.00 background check processing fee.
NOTE: If you let your WAC membership expire and/or you are late in renewing your application, you will need to repeat one of the above options.

[9MMare]

Thanks Mark. I remember that now, it just hasnt come up recently since I'm a member.

Since they approve memberships (and do background checks) at the shows, a serious....& legal....buyer could become a member if they want to buy a gun they find at a show. (altho it will add $55 (?) to the price of the gun)

So, as related to this thread....would this be an unappealing or burdensome option for other states to require? I imagine there are orgs in other states that work the same way anyway.


Note: (WAC) is a gun lobbying org in the state of WA so that membership fee supports our WA st gun rights.

[Big_E]

I don't read anything or click on anything link that has "huffingtonpost" in the url.

I read a few articles from them awhile ago and was dismayed by the bias and lack of research. Now I know why Bill O'Reilly constantly criticizes Ms. Huffington and her "post" on a regular basis.

I just know that she and her "journalists" are just huffing, puffing, and blowing smoke out their asses. Just like Al Gore is causing global warming by blowing hot air out of his windbag mouth everytime he talks.

Now, back to "gun shows". I think that maybe undercover LEO's or something could work, idk, I don't have a lot of experience with that, but I don't want my ability to exercise my freedoms hampered because of a few bad eggs.

[Patriotme]

Thanks for the link. I usually check the Huffpo every couple of days for an anti gun column or an unusually anti American column (not really hard to find there) to post a comment or two on.
Pro gunners usually bury the anti's in logic, facts and decent arguments every time they post a column. It must be especially irksome for Paul Helmke as he cannot even win a public opinion debate on a left wing blog.

[MD_Willington]

RICO anyone, I've said this before, Bloomberg is the head of a straw purchase gang... why is he still relevant and not sitting in a cell? - He has $$$.. that's it.

He's an elitist jackass!