1911: How much tougher is it to field strip/clean ...

...compared to Sigs, Glocks, CZs, HKs? (which I'm used to)

I am considering buying my first 1911. Are there a zillion small parts? Any tricks to getting the pistol back together and not screwing something up?

Field stripping and cleaning is very easy. Detail stripping, I don't know how hard it is - I don't own a 1911 so I haven't done so. They seem to have few parts, especially moving parts, so I imagine it would be relatively easy as well.

http://members.cchat.com/mogley/4.gif

The picture posted is for the 1911 with the "shorty" recoil rod, and it is easier to strip than one with a full length guide rod. Personally, I find stripping a 1911 with an FLGR and an 18# recoil spring to be a real bear to get back together.

The field stripping of a 1911 is fairly easy once you know the basic steps...but then again, I find the Ruger Mk II easy to field strip too :rolleyes:

Here's a quick comparison for you.

Glock
1. Remove magazine and insure gun is emtpy
2. Align slide and frame
3. Activate two slide catches on either side of frame
4. Remove slide
5. Remove recoil spring and guide rod unit
6. Remove barrel

1911
1. Remove magazine and insure gun is empty
2. Push in recoil plug and rotate bushing clear to release spring tension
3. Align slide and frame
4. Remove slide stop
5. Remove slide
6. Remove spring and guide rod
7. Rotate bushing opposite direction and remove
8. Remove barrel

There's not that much difference once you learn it. The main things are the 1911 recoil spring is not captured and the Glock is (IIRC) and you have the bushing to remove, which the Glock does not have.

Detail stripping depends on the model you have. I know to detail strip a Glock you need a tool. If you have a GI style 1911 true to the original pattern, you can do a complete detail strip using the parts of the gun as the only tools.

More like half a dozen small parts. :)

Field stripping's more fiddly than with a modern gun. My CZ-100, for instance, is dead easy to get apart and back together. Ditto my Ruger auto. That said, it's not all _that_ difficult. Don't let that stop you.

Not perfect, but a decent example (http://www.cs.iupui.edu/~bswenson/finalproj/index.html)

Millions of GI's learned to do it. :) I really like the ability to detail strip the 1911 and replace any broken parts. That's tough to do with most other HGs, except Glock.

As always, thanks for the excellent info. Any reluctance or foreboding I previously may have had is gone.

The 1911 Series 70, pre Series 70, and all clones that don't use a passive
firing pin safety can be stripped to the bare frame and slide in about
two minutes. If it's GI spec, no tools needed. If it's not, only a firing pin
form an AR-15 is needed, and not even THAT is absolutely necessary.
If u=you want to disassemble the mainspring housing, add one minute
for dissassembly/reassembly. Springers with ILS can take a bit longer.

Series 80 Colts are a little more tedious, but not that much. Strip and
reassembly for a pre-80 pistol tkaes me about 4 minutes from go to
dry-fire. It can be learned in 5 strips. Series 80s take a minute or two
longer, with practice.

Cheers!

Tuner

Field strip Glock--10 seconds

Field strip 1911--15 seconds.

No difference to me.

I find my CZ-75 a little easier to field strip. However, the 1911 is a lot easier to detail strip and with hardly any tools required, just a punch to knock out the pins.

When I got my second Sistema, I completely detail stripped it, scrubbed it inside and out, changed all the springs, oiled and reassembled it in less that an hour. That was taking my time and enjoying the task.

1911
1. Remove magazine and insure gun is empty
2. Push in recoil plug and rotate bushing clear to release spring tension
3. Align slide and frame
4. Remove slide stop
5. Remove slide
6. Remove spring and guide rod
7. Rotate bushing opposite direction and remove
8. Remove barrel



I submit:
1. Remove mag and ensure gun is empty.
2. From a right handed grip press in on end of slide stop pin with trigger finger.
3.Rack slide
4. Remove slide stop, remove slide.
5. Remove recoil assy and barrel from slide.

Takes about 5 seconds. Works for pesky guide rod guns. If using a real 1911 set-up cup forward end of slide while pulling it off the frame in order to keep spring from going to parts unknown.

Navy joe, that'll work too. :D

That's actually the method I use for my Commander. The method I describe is the way I was originally taught and it works whether you have a GI style or a full lenth guide rod.

One other thing I've read is that you can't slam a slide closed on an empty magazine? True?

DMK..If the hammer strut is the old-style, that's the tool for the
sear pin...punch out and slave pin for realignment. Get an M-16
firing pin and play with it a little. You'll see that it will remove and
align all the pins on a 1911...It can even be used to punch out the
mainspring cap's little pin far enough to grab it.

J Bourne. You heard right! That's a destructive thing to do to
any autopistol, and the 1911 in particular. When feeding a round,
the forward speed and momentum of the slide is bled off so that
the impact of going to battery is reduced to about 2 foot-pounds.
Empty, the impact stress is absorbed by the slidestop pin and the
bottom barrel lug's feet. Barrel in hand, slip the slidestop pin
through the link and swing it into the radius formed by the feet.
That's the in-battery position. There's not a lot of steel bearing
on the pin...about half the radius. If done enough, the feet get
beaten back, ruining the vertical lock and throwing the barrel
linkdown out of time. Bad juju. Potentially very expensive
damage to barrel and slide.

Tuner

Thanks for the advice 1911tuner. :cool:

1911tuner: Thanks for that info. It's not a problem to let the slide close on its lonesome when there's NO magazine inserted in a 1911, right?

Mighty welcome DMK.

J.Bourne asked:


1911tuner: Thanks for that info. It's not a problem to let the slide close on its lonesome when there's NO magazine inserted in a 1911, right?

As long as you let it ease into battery, and not let it happen at full speed. The pistol will tolerate it a few times, since it's engineered with a failure to
lock the slide on empty occasionally being a consideration. Just don't let it happen very much.

Cheers all!

Tuner

Another slide closure issue. Please don't hand chamber(drop-in) a round then close the slide over it, surest way to ruin perfectly good extractor tension. Under normal operation the rim of the case slides under the extractor claw, always load from a mag.

Lots of the race gun guys will depress the trigger when hand cycling the slide so as to move the sear out of the way so it is not bumped by the hammer and the fine engagement surfaces messed up. This is a concern when your trigger pull is in the no BS 1.5lb range, I've felt them, they're scary. You don't need to do this. I know one fella that did this out of "muscle memory" he had been doing a bunch of dryfire practice. Problem was this time was for unload and show clear. Which the pistol did automatically. Very suprised look on the fellas face.

For Sig vs. 1911

Sig:
1) Remove magazine, check chamber to ensure chamber is clear
2) rack slide
3) turn takedown lever 90 degrees
4) Depress slide release and take off the slide
5) Take off Recoil spring
6) Take out barrel

1911
1) Remove magazine, check chamber to ensure chamber is clear
2) Rack slide
3) Push slide stop out from right side while slowly releasing the slide
4) Remove slide
5)Remove recoil spring
6) Turn Barrel bushing all the way to the left to remove barrel plug
7) Turn barrel bushing 3/4 ways to the left and remove bushing
8) Remove barrel

I usually do the sig first and get it outta the way. The 1911 is last because its a lot more fun to clean :p

Lots of the race gun guys will depress the trigger when hand cycling the slide so as to move the sear out of the way so it is not bumped by the hammer and the fine engagement surfaces messed up.

Except on a 1911, you can hold the trigger back but when you move the slide back out of battery (hand cycling the slide), the disconnector gets forced down under the sear feet so it can not apply any pressure to the sear. Ergo, the sear will return to normal mode and still ride the hammer surface as it typically would, and will stop the hammer at the full cock notch when the hammer is coming forward.

There are reasons you would hold the trigger back tightly on a 1911 with a light trigger when loading:

1) If you slide drop to chamber up a live round, there is a very small chance of an ND from "trigger bounce" which is the inertia of the mass of the trigger holding it in place as the gun rocks forward from the impact of the slide into the frame.

2) If you are cycling ammo, holding the trigger back while you cycle the slide forces the disconnector below the sear and prevents the possibility of an AD.

I always have a problem getting parts 9 and 10 lined up correctly so that I can get the pin in.

Normally getting those pieces set takes me about as long as it does to assembled ther rest of the gun.

Mike,
The way I do it is I wedge a finger down the mag-well from the top and press back to sort of hold the sear and disconnector as I slide the pin in.
It is difficult to describe (and at the moment, taking my 1911 apart and figuring exactly how to illustrate it is not an option) but it works. It lets you make small adjustments to their position while keeping them together.

cordex! Thanks for the link.
http://www.emotipad.com/newemoticons/Big-Thumbs-Up.gif

Another link with detailed instructions.

NOTE: The following illustrations demonstrate how it is possible to completely detail-strip an M1911A1 by using the pistol's own parts as tools. This is usually made possible by the fairly loose tolerances of USGI pistols, allowing the parts to be freed by pressure alone. This method often will not work on tighter commercial guns without the risk of slipping and damaging the parts or possibly injuring yourself. Once you have tried this method out and seen how it can be done it is STRONGLY advised that you refrain from using it in the future. Instead, rely on the proper tools for the job such as small and wide flat-blade screwdrivers, a small drift punch, and a small hammer. On collector's grade pistols the "tool-less" disassembly method should NEVER be attempted as the risk of slipping and damaging the finish is far too great. Again, use the proper tools and lay the pistol down on a clean surface with rags for cushioning. ALWAYS WEAR SAFETY GLASSES TO AVOID INJURY FROM SPRING-LOADED PARTS! (http://usgi1911.tripod.com/disassembly)

There are many books and videos that may be very helpful, for starters I recommend the Wilson Combat book.

Anyone have a quick pointer on how to get the slide stop back in? My Springer is a b!tch. I thought that was just because it's new but the last lines on Mil's mile-long link above says it's a common complaint.

Hey Navy Joe... Does your abbreviated technique work with SA 9109L 1911?
Or do you need to first need to unscrew the terminal end of FLGR? Thank you for your assistance as any faster /easier method is appreciated:)

Another little trick that makes it a snap is to install the sear and
disconnector, get the bottom of the disconnector about flush with the
bottom of the trigger stirrup, and hold it there with your fingertip
while you rotate the pistol and face the left side up. Keep it level,
and use the index finger of your left hand for keeping the top of the disconnector from moving up. (Captive between two fingers.) Have a sheet of paper on the table under the frame to help see through the hole,and peek through the pin hole while you slowly pull the trigger. It won't take much travel to line everything up.....Maybe a 32nd inch...slip your pin through. It might take a little wiggle and twist, but it should go right in. Best way is to use a slave pin to slip into the hole to line everything up. The firing pin from an AR-15 is the perfect takedown/reassembly tool for the 1911. it will do it all. If the hammer strut is true to spec, it will line up the sear and disconnector too.

After a little practice, this line-up procedure will get it all in place in about
15 seconds.

Luck to ya!

Tuner

I ususally use a straightened paperclip as a locator pin.

That makes like easier.

Anybody here ever use a "Thumb Buddy"?