Heck, Give Everybody a Gun!


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2dogs
November 11, 2003, 04:31 PM
http://www.lewrockwell.com/edmonds/edmonds153.html

Heck, Give Everybody a Gun!

by Brad Edmonds


John Lott (buy his book), Richard Poe (buy his), and all manner of libertarians have been making the case that widespread gun ownership decreases crime; and that personal gun ownership is consistent with, even guaranteed by, the 2nd amendment. Even the government, following the war between the states, saw it that way as freed black slaves were guaranteed gun-ownership rights because, as several courts decided, gun ownership was the most important test of whether a man is truly free.

Thomas Sowell and John Lott have shown that multiple-shooting incidents, where a single nut goes on a killing spree, happen mainly in gun-free zones (such as government schools), and that multiple shootings are usually terminated only when someone else shows up with a gun to stop the shooter. An exception would be the Columbine massacre, where the shooters killed themselves when they ran out of nearby victims; in that one, the armed sheriff’s deputies stayed outside, away from the shooting, until the shooting stopped. They performed this heroic act on orders from the sheriff.

It should be clear why the government and your local police don’t want you to have guns: If you can defend yourself, you don’t have as much need of the police, or indeed, the military. More ominously, you can defend your person, property, and family from the government itself: An armed and educated America would not only need to be less afraid of such government crimes as Ruby Ridge and Waco; that sort of America might clamor for the reduction of the size of government, or even the institution of a different one (a natural right our founders understood and held dear). That our government doesn’t like the prospect of individual gun ownership is not unique to the US – governments all over the world have gun-control laws. Naturally, such laws are no more effective elsewhere than they are in the US.

But for the time being, it remains possible for us to purchase and own guns. My recommendation: One pistol per family member, at least one short-barreled shotgun per family, and a deer rifle with a scope per family. Pistols offer mobile, concealed personal protection. Shotguns offer effective home defense. A pump shotgun is even better than a semi-automatic, since the sound of you chambering the first round is usually enough to send an intruder running for his life, so everybody wins – he learns a lesson that might prevent him from entering the next house and you don’t have nightmares about the mess his guts made in your house. The high-powered rifle, for its part, provides a threat even the government must take seriously. Few flak jackets do a very effective job of stopping a heavy, pointed bullet traveling at 2800 feet per second (the most powerful pistols manage at best 1500 fps with a lighter bullet). Additionally, you can be a threat from hundreds of yards with a deer rifle. A large city – heck, even a neighborhood – full of people owning such weapons would be a formidable problem for the ATF.

So there are bunches of reasons for me to want everybody to have guns – crime goes down, and I would venture to place a wager that government would slowly begin shrinking as well.

And I can’t think of a reason for everybody not to have guns. I don’t even care if convicted criminals have them, as long as the rest of us do. Just as no criminals walk into a gun show to start a shooting rampage, we can be confident that few, or no, criminals would go on shooting rampages in offices, post offices, schools, or shopping malls.

Of course, our political left wing warns us ad infinitum that our society would deteriorate into daily shootouts if everybody walked around carrying a gun. Not so. Think about the current situation: We are allowed to drive cars and to carry baseball bats. You can kill lots of people with either. Nobody ever does it. The 99% of us who aren’t criminal kooks simply don’t go around hurting other people. Think about all the people you work with, see at the grocery store, meet at church and social occasions: How many of those people would you fear? Some of the stronger ones among them already are able to kill you with their fists. How often do they do that?

So: It has been established empirically that we would have less ordinary crime if everybody walked around armed. It has been established empirically that we would have less fear of foreign invasion, and less fear of terrorist attacks, under the same conditions (remember the statement by WWII Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto: "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass."; and see how often Switzerland has been invaded). It was established logically by our government itself in the early days that the government would be better kept at bay with gun ownership. And those towns that have high levels of gun ownership prove what common sense suggests: Widespread gun ownership doesn’t make criminals out of ordinary people – only criminals are made to feel unsafe when everybody’s armed. Indeed, data in the US show that you and I are more trustworthy gun owners than the cops themselves.

Go out and buy yourself some guns today, and give some as gifts. You’ll love yourself for it, and make me feel safer at the same time.

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rock jock
November 11, 2003, 04:52 PM
I don’t even care if convicted criminals have them
I do. Convicted felons have demonstrated a lack of responsibility when it comes to exercising their rights, so it is appropriate to restrict them.

manwithoutahome
November 11, 2003, 04:53 PM
Heck, I believe that even "felons" should be able to have guns. If the government, state or federal, believe that a person who goes to jail is "rehabilitated" then they should regain ALL rights as an American. This BS about getting out of jail after doing your time and then you have "some rights" but not "other rights" is anti-American.

Some will disagree with me on this one but I feel that once a person pays his/her debt to society, then they should be welcomed back into society with all Rights restored. This is what they did in the time of our forefathers and you have to remember, our forefathers were considered "felons" at the time they went against the crown.

In MHO, if a person is not allowed to have their Rights given back after their payment to society, then they shouldn't have been allowed out to begain with.

M

rock jock
November 11, 2003, 05:52 PM
Some will disagree with me on this one but I feel that once a person pays his/her debt to society
They haven't paid their debt. They are let out way too early, their attitudes haven't changed, their goals and mindset are still the same. Prison is simply a delay in their regularly scheduled programming as a criminal. Look at the recividism rates - up near 80, 90% for many crimes. Based on this, we can say with confidence that a convicted felon will almost certainly commit another crime. The same cannot be said of the group of law-abiding gun owners of whom you and I are members, as are most gun-owners in the U.S. Statistically, there is an extremely small incidence of criminal behavior on our part. If you lump convicted felons in with us, we look worse than society in general, not better.

IMO, allowing a felon to have a gun is like taking the chain off a dog that has repeatedly attacked you in the past. Would you say to yourself "I have punished that dog long enough, and even though he growls and froths at the mouth everytime I pass by, I'm going to let him run free once again?"

TallPine
November 11, 2003, 06:03 PM
Look at the recividism rates - up near 80, 90% for many crimes.
Right ... and then you suppose that they will obey the law prohibiting them from possessing a gun ..... :confused:

Meanwhile, we have de facto registration and BS paperwork for the rest of us, while some felon is stealing a gun or getting it on the black market.

Gun control doesn't work, period (except to disarm the law abiding). Why does anyone think that something that doesn't work will work on a limited basis (in the case of felons) ????

rock jock
November 11, 2003, 06:08 PM
Right ... and then you suppose that they will obey the law prohibiting them from possessing a gun
Legal prohibition of gun ownership for felons is not designed to keep them from getting a gun. It is designed to allow LE to throw them back in prison for merely possessing one, which based on the recividism rates I mentioned, we can reasonably expect them to use in a crime.

Standing Wolf
November 11, 2003, 07:18 PM
My recommendation: One pistol per family member, at least one short-barreled shotgun per family, and a deer rifle with a scope per family.

Only one pistol per family member? No way!

As for felons and firearms: I believe convicted felons who serve their sentences, pay full restitution, stay off welfare, become self-supporting, and abstain from crime for a substantial period of time—ten years, say—could have their full civil rights restored. The burden of proof should be on the felons, not the law-abiding.

TallPine
November 11, 2003, 07:35 PM
Legal prohibition of gun ownership for felons is not designed to keep them from getting a gun.
Oh good ... I'm glad we cleared that up. :rolleyes:

So then why do I have to fill out that damn 4473 and can't buy a gun through the mail ????

Marko Kloos
November 11, 2003, 07:41 PM
Convicted felons have demonstrated a lack of responsibility when it comes to exercising their rights, so it is appropriate to restrict them.

And gun control is effective at keeping guns out of the hands of felons, because they can be trusted to obey the law?

It looks to me like you are saying that gun control works...

rock jock
November 11, 2003, 07:43 PM
Marko, read my last post.

Barbara
November 11, 2003, 07:56 PM
I'm ok with felons on parole not having the right to bear arms, or voting or what have you, but really, if they can't be trusted with a gun, what are they doing out of prison?

twoblink
November 11, 2003, 09:22 PM
Criminals will have guns.. That's just a fact. So I don't even bother arguing that. All they've demonstrated is that they don't obey laws. No big deal; as long as I can even the playing field..

They will have guns, so I need to have guns.

As for 1 gun per family member.. That's gotta be the exception not the rule on THR.. :D

BHPshooter
November 11, 2003, 11:31 PM
I do. Convicted felons have demonstrated a lack of responsibility when it comes to exercising their rights, so it is appropriate to restrict them.

No, that lack of responsibility, if not something that can be "rehabilitated," :rolleyes: should put that person underground -- exactly 6 feet underground.

If they can't be "fixed" then why waste money keeping them fed, clothed, and sheltered? If they can't be "fixed," then a recall to the manufacturer is called for. There's no use to keep taxes so astronomically high to keep scumbags alive. And yeah, prison terms need to be tougher. They shouldn't be out (or alive!!!) if there's still a threat to society.

But you're right, we should punish all of society for the fraction of a percent of the population that are at fault. :rolleyes: :barf:

Wes

sm
November 12, 2003, 12:00 AM
No gun control laws period.

Some of these convicted felons are guilty of non violent crimes. Perhaps only got caught doing what the politiicians do...got some politians doing time also.
I'll say again, criminals ain't wired right, the laws of control they don't obey, honest responsible citizen are the ones whom obey laws and become easy prey.

I've always suggested gather up the gangs/BGs/ criminals. Get a BIG plot of ground, dig some trenches, and let them have all the guns and ammo they want. They can shoot/rob/murder/rape all they want. Get low on ammo, send more in.

Now two ways this will play out:
1) They kill each other off and just bulldoze into trenches, gather up guns and we are done.
2) With an even playing field after inital killings we might see how polite an armed society might be. Though wired wrong, even criminals have honesty among thieves.

Be one helluva Sociological study either way.

jimpeel
November 12, 2003, 12:25 AM
I also agree that ex-felons should have ALL of their rights restored after they have done their time. This is how it was up until GCA-68.

Figure this:

Ex-felons are not allowed to defend their life against an offensive attack with a firearm; which is, admittedly, the most effective weapon. They are relegated to calling the police as their sole source of protection.

The courts have ruled that the police have no duty to protect any individual citizen or prevent any crime.

The states declare themselves to have "sovereign immunity" from suit if any government entity fails to protect any citizen or prevent any crime.

So ex-felons are at the mercy of those whom we arm ourselves against. Shouldn't they have that same right?

To see how stupid and how far these laws will go, read the first two posts at this thread at TFL:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=78425

Remember. All firearms laws exist in prior restraint.

7.62FullMetalJacket
November 12, 2003, 12:28 AM
The second amendment to GIVE EVERYBODY A GUN:

An armed society is a polite society.


Boy, do we need more politeness (present company excluded, of course).

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