[H&Hhunter]

Booming elephant population wreaks havoc in Zimbabwe
http://www.thenational.ae/

Thulani Mpofu, Foreign Correspondent

* Last Updated: December 23. 2009 12:05AM UAE / December 22. 2009 8:05PM
GMT

KENNILWORTH // An increasing elephant population is forcing the animals from
wildlife reserves and into greater contact with people, leading to an
economic and environmental crisis in parts of Zimbabwe where some are
calling for greater numbers of the animals to be culled.

The World Wide Fund for Nature and African Wildlife Foundation estimate that
Zimbabwe has 110,000 elephants, above the optimum capacity of between 45,000
and 50,000. For communities living next to the wildlife reserves where the
elephants are flourishing, the increased numbers are proving dangerous,
destroying farmland, driving people from their homes and, at times,
trampling people to death.

In Kennilworth, 90km north of the capital Bulawayo, Relney Nqadini, a
villager, has started planting crops during torrential rains on his plot.
But harvests in this area are dependent not only on how much it rains, but
also whether elephants will spare the villagers' fields.

"In April this year, they ate all my crops, just as I was about to harvest,"
said Mr Nqadini. "Days of labour came to nothing as they [elephants]
destroyed everything we had planted. Even if it rains the way it is doing
now, this is not a guarantee for a good harvest."

The elephants that raid Kennilworth come from the nearby Debshan Ranch and
Hwange National Park, Zimbabwe's largest animal sanctuary.

"They raid our fields at night," he said. "So we build bonfires and beat
drums to try to scare them away but they soon get used to the tricks."
Another villager in the area, Luke Mupengesi, said: "Sometimes if we make
fires, they get irritable and attack us, so we flee our homes into the
mountains."

When elephants raid their area, villagers seek help from Bubi rural district
council, the only authority that can kill problem animals in the area. But
often, Mr Mupengesi said, council officials are out of bullets for shooting
the animals or fuel to drive to their hideouts.

The elephant problem in Kennilworth is mirrored in other areas across
Zimbabwe. The elephant population is concentrated in the Hwange, Gonarezhou
and Chizarira national parks, but there are a significant number in private
conservancies.

Morris Mutsambiwa, the director-general of the Parks and Wildlife Management
Authority, said the population is rising by five per cent every year. He
said that due to their increasing numbers, elephants are not only a danger
to the environment, human beings and other wildlife, but to themselves.

[armoredman]

How do elephant steaks taste?

[PT1911]

To avoid sounding like an animal rights activist (which I am NOT), I will reserve my comments...

[leadcounsel]

Is it the 'booming elephant population' or the 'out of control 3rd world unable to un-F themselves' population explosion?

From what I understand elephants (and many other of natures beauties like wolves, bears, sharks, snakes, etc.) are near extinction while ignornant people are overcrowding the world.

[PT1911]

That is what I was getting at Leadcounsel.

[RockinU]

Um, did ya'll not see that they are over twice their carrying capacity? It's just like anything else guys, when a species gets out of control numbers wise, whether it be white-tailed deer destroying understory, or feral hogs and all the damage they do, or Elephants in Zimbabwe it's not good. The population needs to be kept at the optimum number that is conducive to good overall herd health...it's that simple.

[H&Hhunter]

From what I understand

That's the problem you don't understand. These animals are nowhere near extinction. Maybe instead of watching TV you should go see for yourself.

[usmc1371]

H&H, Thank You for the update. Does this meant he price will come down on hunts...

[H&Hhunter]

It's already as low as it's ever been in the history of elephant hunting. People always get all twitterpated about the price of elephant hunting. Just like they do about the price of many things. Elephant hunts come in all shapes and sizes. You can do a P.A.C (problem animal control) elephant hunt for under $10,000 all in with multiple elephant on license. If you want to do a trophy bull hunt in Botswana or Tanzania plan then you need to plan on bringing some real money.

If a guy wanted to experience an elephant hunt which I highly recommend it will never be cheaper than right now. Just to put it in perspective You can hunt elephant cheaper than you can do a good guided elk hunt. Elephant hunting is an incredible experience especially cows in a herd situation. You can almost count on multiple charges on a single hunt and you can also plan on doing some running and dodging before it's all over. Elephant hunting is like no other type of hunting on the planet and it's needed now more than ever.

[leadcounsel]

Wikipedia - which is generally a decent source for basic information:

Healthy adult elephants have no natural predators,[11] although lions may take calves or weak individuals.[12][13] They are, however, increasingly threatened by human intrusion and poaching. Once numbering in the millions, the African elephant population has dwindled to between 470,000 and 690,000 individuals according to a March 2007 estimate.[14] While the elephant is a protected species worldwide, with restrictions in place on capture, domestic use, and trade in products such as ivory, CITES reopening of "one time" ivory stock sales, has resulted in increased poaching. Certain African nations report a decrease of their elephant populations by as much as two-thirds, and populations in certain protected areas are in danger of being eliminated[15] Since recent poaching has increased by as much as 45%, the current population is unknown (2008).[16]

Human folly, greed, sport hunting, waste of resources, and shortsighted viewpoints that I frequently see on the "hunt" page has significantly contributed to the endangerment and/or extinction of the following animals/species:

African Elephant
African Wild Dog
American Alligator
Asian Lion
Atlantic Ridley
Atlantic Salmon
Bald Eagle
Black Footed Ferret
Black Lemur
Blue Whale
Bowhead Whale
California Condor
Carolina Parakeet
Cheetah
Chimpanzee
Coelacanth
Dodo
Eastern Cougar
Eskimo Curlew
Extinct Animals
Extinct Birds
Extinct Mammals
Fin Whale
Florida Manatee
Galapagos Flightless Cormorant
Galapagos Flightless
Gaur
Gavial
Giant Anteater
Giant Armadillo
Giant Panda
Gorilla
Great Auk
Greater Prairie Chicken
Green Turtle
Grey Whale
Grizzly Bear
Humpback Whale
Imperial Parrot
Indian Rhinoceros
Jaguar
Japanese Crested Ibis
Kagu
Kakapo
Komodo Dragon
Leatherback Turtle
Leopard
Loggerhead Turtle
Mediterranean Monk Seal
Monkey Eating Eagle
Mountain Gorilla
Orangutan
Passenger Pigeon
Peregrine Falcon
Piping Plover
Pronghorned Antelope
Przewalski's Horse
Pygmy Hippopotamus
Sea Otter
Sei Whale
Shortnose Sturgeon
Snow Leopard
Takahe
Tapir
Tiger
Trumpeter Swan
Vancouver Island Marmot
White Pelican
White Rhinoceros
Whooping Crane
Wild Ass
Wild Yak

Before you attack me - yes I am a consumer. I buy stuff; I eat meat and fish; I travel; I breathe air; I use resources, etc.

What I don't do is shoot prarie dogs for fun. What I don't do is buy ivory, and wouldn't even if it was legal. I don't support dog fighting. And I certainly don't care about the plight of some African tribes who have produced too many babies and cause their own overpopulation problems. I certainly care MORE about the near extinct elephants than about some 3rd world Zimbabwe getting his farm trampled (hint, maybe the HUMANS in Africa need some population control and LESS Aid [my tax dollars going for free food, water, and medicine so they can continue to spit out babies] from the US.

Our continued human greed and shortsighted folly will likely result in the extinction of sharks, species of fish, great apes, whales, wolves, bear, and elephants; many possibly in my lifetime.

As an example, after JAWS was filmed, millions of sharks were killed out of ignorance. Estimates are that between 10,000,000 and 100,000,000 sharks are killed annually. Apes are another species nearly extint, and are threatened by ebola. You could blame a disease on the loss of a species like apes, sharks or elephants, but it's HUMANS that have pushed the animal to the brink, giving a disease an easy task of finishing the job.

Ignorance is a shame.

[Warhawk83]

You should come to my state and see how endangered the American alligator is...:rolleyes:

[H&Hhunter]

Ignorance is a shame.

leadcouncil,

Well then you should be ashamed of yourself.

Elephants are indeed in danger of extinction in some African countries those in particular that that don't allow regulated sport hunting of them. If you are interested in becoming a bit less ignorant you should read several of the stickies at the top of this page.

There are multiple species of animals on your list that are not only thriving but have been saved exclusively by regulated sport hunting. The white rhino and the leopard are two of them.

Do you not understand the difference between poaching and regulated hunting? Regulated sport hunting is the ONLY thing that pays for anti poaching patrols. Without regulated sport hunting and the benefits that it provides to conservation there would be no elephants left in the wild. Kenya is the prime example of what happens when hunting is stopped in the name of animal well being.

Kenya's elephant population went from well over 100,000 to under 10,000 within ten years of the cessation of legal regulated hunting. All of a sudden elephants weren't worth protecting anymore and they were wiped out with the help I might add off the very government officials who were paid off by international animals rights organization top put a block on legal hunting in the first place.

And at the same time as the elephant populations were being decimated in Kenya in the countries that regulated and allowed sport hunting of elephants those populations started to skyrocket. As the elephants were being afforded protection by the hunting industry. The overpopulation issues arrived from the total cessation of Ivory sales and the lack of revenue from that ban no longer allowed for government culling as they were paying for the operation with the funds derived from elephant products.

What you don't get is that if you stop the legal hunting of elephant they lose their intrinsic value to the native at which point they are systematically wiped out as was done in Kenya, Somalia, Sudan and many other African countries.

Now lets talk about sport hunting of elephants. In Botswana there an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 elephants. And they issue approximately 300 elephant tags a year. Zimbabwe has about 120,000 elephant and they issue somewhere around 500 tags. These are issued for old generally non breeding bulls. The revenues from these hunts pay to keep wildlife blocks of hundreds of thousands of acres open and uninhabited they also pay for anti-poaching forces and schools jobs and education.

So in your now informed opinion what is the down side?

NO HUNTING NO ELEPHANTS it's that simple. And you can jump and scream and roll on the floor as much as you want but these are the facts. It been proven time and again.

[bad_aim_billy]

Human folly, greed, sport hunting, waste of resources, and shortsighted viewpoints that I frequently see on the "hunt" page has significantly contributed to the endangerment and/or extinction of the following animals/species:

Pronghorn Antelope


So true! I never ever see them out here.

[Cosmoline]

American Alligator? Bald eagle? Grizzlies? You've got to be kidding me. I've seen all of these thick enough on the ground you have to be careful not to trip over them.

Public ignorance, driven by agitprop from the environmentalists, is profound. Enormous attention and resources are focused on a handful of "celebrity" animals such as elephants while the genuinely endangered species vanish without so much as a whimper. The gharial, for example, which is not on your list. Nor is the Javan Rhino, which has fallen victim to the very anti-horn laws which the dogooders expected to protect it. When you outlaw a thing, you attract outlaws. So instead of a regulated and lucrative hunt for Javan rhino horn that gives the locals a piece of the action and a reason to protect both species and habitat, you have poachers blasting the beasts into extinction. It's the same old story over and over and over and over again.

There are more than enough elephants in Africa to support a very lucrative and useful ivory trade again. Just as there are more than enough whales of certain species to permit renewed whaling.

[McCall911]

Kenya's elephant population went from well over 100,000 to under 10,000 within ten years of the cessation of legal regulated hunting. All of a sudden elephants weren't worth protecting anymore and they were wiped out with the help I might add off the very government officials who were paid off by international animals rights organization top put a block on legal hunting in the first place.

I've also been told that the Kenyan hunting ban has meant a booming business for poachers. Makes sense
You have to listen to people from and in Africa to know the facts about elephants: Just what H&HHunter, and obviously that news article, has pointed out.

But why hear the facts when you've got Wikipedia? :rolleyes:

[H&Hhunter]

Healthy adult elephants have no natural predators,[11] although lions may take calves or weak individuals.[12][13] They are, however, increasingly threatened by human intrusion and poaching. Once numbering in the millions, the African elephant population has dwindled to between 470,000 and 690,000 individuals according to a March 2007 estimate.[14] While the elephant is a protected species worldwide, with restrictions in place on capture, domestic use, and trade in products such as ivory, CITES reopening of "one time" ivory stock sales, has resulted in increased poaching. Certain African nations report a decrease of their elephant populations by as much as two-thirds, and populations in certain protected areas are in danger of being eliminated[15] Since recent poaching has increased by as much as 45%, the current population is unknown (2008).[16]

Hey there lead,

If you are going to use a tool like Wikipedia it would be in your best interest to try and have a basic understanding of what you are reading. The above perfectly explains my point. Sport hunting is the TOOL used to combat poaching.

Now lets take a closer look at you list, I'll try and identify every animal that was put into danger by regulated sport hunting. I'll embolden everyone that either isn't endangered or has been revitalized directly by the sport hunting community. I will italicize all of those that are in danger due to commercial harvesting and or poaching and would be better off if they were regulated and derived funds from sport hunting. This should be fun.

African Elephant
African Wild Dog.....Mainly endangered due to canine distemper
American Alligator
Asian Lion
Atlantic Ridley
Atlantic Salmon
Bald Eagle
Black Footed Ferret
Black Lemur
Blue Whale
Bowhead Whale
California Condor
Carolina Parakeet
Cheetah
Chimpanzee
Coelacanth
Dodo
Eastern Cougar
Eskimo Curlew
Extinct Animals Yeah Ok what are you getting at here?
Extinct Birds Same as above emotional and purposely vague.
Extinct Mammals Ok you are truly grasping now.
Fin Whale
Florida Manatee
Galapagos Flightless Cormorant
Galapagos Flightless
Gaur
Gavial
Giant Anteater
Giant Armadillo
Giant Panda
Gorilla
Great Auk
Greater Prairie Chicken
Green Turtle
Grey Whale
Grizzly Bear
Humpback Whale
Imperial Parrot
Indian Rhinoceros
Jaguar
Japanese Crested Ibis
Kagu
Kakapo
Komodo Dragon
Leatherback Turtle
Leopard
Loggerhead Turtle
Mediterranean Monk Seal
Monkey Eating Eagle
Mountain Gorilla
Orangutan
Passenger Pigeon
Peregrine Falcon
Piping Plover
Pronghorned Antelope
Przewalski's Horse
Pygmy Hippopotamus
Sea Otter
Sei Whale
Shortnose Sturgeon
Snow Leopard
Takahe
Tapir Which one?
Tiger.. A direct correlation between the dramatic drop in population and cessation of regulated hunting.
Vancouver Island Marmot
White Pelican
White Rhinoceros
Whooping Crane
Wild Ass
Wild Yak

I'm guessing that you don't know that just about every single conservation project and endangered species revitalization in this country derives nearly all of it's funds from taxes placed on sporting goods? And that your little buddies at PETA and HSUS have never once given a single dime towards wildlife conservation?

[McCall911]

I certainly care MORE about the near extinct elephants than about some 3rd world Zimbabwe getting his farm trampled (hint, maybe the HUMANS in Africa need some population control and LESS Aid [my tax dollars going for free food, water, and medicine so they can continue to spit out babies] from the US.

Did I read this, or did I dream that I read it?

:barf:

[trapperjohn]

its a waste of time to argue with people that think animals are more important than poor people.

[Leaky Waders]

I think your diatribed list needs a real going over...so when was the last time a coelocanth was actively fished for jerky? Oh yeah...and there are all those manatee drives going on in South Florida along with the White Pelican hunts.

I don't feel guilty having opposable thumbs and being the predator holding the canvasback, and the lion doesn't feel guilty about holding the fresh killed gazelle. The main difference is that man can help shape his environment by conservation efforts (while his fellow man bemoans his efforts and lives on the fruits of others labors), the lion just lives...any lion that disagrees goes hungry and lives a few years less.

[ArmedBear]

Enormous attention and resources are focused on a handful of "celebrity" animals such as elephants while the genuinely endangered species vanish without so much as a whimper.

Exactly.

T-shirt environmental policy.

[H&Hhunter]

its a waste of time to argue with people that think animals are more important than poor people.

Trapper,
You are exactly right, Leadcouncil is spouting 100% pure Animal rights doctrine. There is no point in arguing with these people.

[Art Eatman]

No animal can be protected unless the people who share in the habitat have some vested interest in that protection. Think "Money". As, for instance, the people who live in elk/deer/antelope country who will report a poacher in a heartbeat.

Or African villagers who share in the license fees for "sport" hunting.

leadcounsel, when I was born the US population was about half what it is today. It's your parents who contributed to making my world so danged crowded. It's my tax dollars which are going to free food, water and medicine so your parents' generation and yours can can continue to "spit out babies".

[ArmedBear]

It's your parents who contributed to making my world so danged crowded. It's my tax dollars which are going to free food, water and medicine so your parents' generation and yours can can continue to "spit out babies".


I.e., help stop overpopulation. Find a tall bridge and jump off.:D

The anti-human movement is arguably the clearest example of hypocrisy that can be found. Every single member of it could help fix the perceived problem, without any new resources, and without help from anyone. Yet, they don't.

[JohnBT]

"Wikipedia - which is generally a decent source for basic information"

:banghead:

BWAAHHAHAHAHA.

Face it, you'll never know who put those so-called facts on Wikipedia or what organizations they belong to or what their true motives are.

John

[wankerjake]

In Botswana there an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 elephants. And they issue approximately 300 elephant tags a year. Zimbabwe has about 120,000 elephant and they issue somewhere around 500 tags. These are issued for old generally non breeding bulls.

It seems to me that the number of tags issued would hardly even slow down a population that big. And if the money funds measures to protect the remaining herd, well I would imagine those herds are on the rise, and not a decline.

[H&Hhunter]

It seems to me that the number of tags issued would hardly even slow down a population that big. And if the money funds measures to protect the remaining herd, well I would imagine those herds are on the rise, and not a decline.

Yes they are on the rise dramatically in some areas. What I didn't mention here however is that since the various game departments can no longer afford culling teams to cut the population they are now selling control tags to sport hunters at very cheap rates. So if a guy wanted to hunt elephant this a golden opportunity. No part of the elephant can be kept if it's killed on a control tag but you get the experience and to me that's the main thing. I killed an elephant on a control tag in 2004 it was one heck of an experience and we took a trouble maker aggressive old cow out of the herd.

[CoRoMo]

From what I understand elephants are near extinction...

You probably get your "data" from Wikipedia, right?

edit::what:
Dang, I was sort of kidding because I thought you half-knew what you were talking about, but then I read post #10, and you really do get your "data" from Wikipedia. Mistake. Do you really buy that? What's hilarious is that Grizzly Bear is on there, but Polar Bear isn't. If the person who wrote that had been trying to do a half-whit job of appearing legit, you'd think you'd see a list that made an effort at making sense.

[McCall911]

An increasing elephant population is forcing the animals from
wildlife reserves and into greater contact with people, leading to an
economic and environmental crisis in parts of Zimbabwe where some are
calling for greater numbers of the animals to be culled.

So obviously humans aren't "intruding" into elephant territory, but vice versa.
Of course, the anti-human animal rights "activists" turn a blind eye to this, assuming they see anything at all.

Culling a herd is awful and no one in their right mind wants to do it, but it's a necessary evil by game management in parts of Africa. Obviously,there are far more elephants than there are legitimate hunters to hunt them.

But one of many problems is that in some places game management is strapped.


What's sad is this:

When elephants raid their area, villagers seek help from Bubi rural district
council, the only authority that can kill problem animals in the area. But
often, Mr Mupengesi said, council officials are out of bullets for shooting
the animals or fuel to drive to their hideouts.

What do you do? Allow the poachers free reign? What, and for the rest of Africa to end up like Kenya? I don't think so! Obviously, they have to encourage legitimate hunting, not ban it as in Kenya.

But you can darn sure bet that Africans aren't going to get any help from the anti-human animal rights "activists"!

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

H&H Hunter speaks quite knowledgably on this issue; I thank you for the info and common sense - we've got to get those countries which do NOT allow legal sport hunting of the elephants to allow it - to save the elephant from natural results stemming from the misguided rhetoric of the anti-hunting movement.

[H&Hhunter]

Tad,

I like your sig line! I do it all the time. In fact every time I go out.:)

[LegalAlien]

OK . . . here is another perspective from somebody who lived in Africa and have seen the impact of elephants on the environment.

During my early years visits to the Kruger National Park, the most abundant wildlife would be the Impala . . . . and on game drives would get bored with impala after impala after impala . . . big herds!!! Lots of excitement was generated whenever we were fortunate to see an elephant, or a small herd. This was back in the late 80's.

Step forward to 2008 - we were fortunate to go 'back home' and visit family in South Africa . . . and part of the trip was a weekend safari stay in a fairly exclusive private game reserve adjacent to the Kruger National Park and within the Timbavati reserve area.

On our very first game drive, I was shocked to see how decimated the trees and grasslands were . . from overgrazing by elephants. You have to know how elephants graze and how they will totally destroy a tree to get to the soft green leaves. AND . . they have voracious appetites.
During this weekend visit, my new wife, who is a lovely born and bred American gal, was initially in awe when we spotted our first herd of elephants . . right across the river from our tent bungalow. . . . . . by the end of the weekend . . . we were as bored with elephant viewing, as we were with the abundant impala.
There are just too many of them and they are destroying the landscape, to the detriment of all the other plant eating wildlife sharing the same grazing.
According to our guide on the game drives, the South African authorities are planning on re-instituting controlled elephant culling and/or capture and relocation to less populated wilderness areas.

By the way . . . elephant biltong (jerky) is yummy.

[H&Hhunter]

Hers one that just popped up an all in elephant hunt for $7500.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/832100588/m/8371000021

[Vern Humphrey]

What I don't do is shoot prarie dogs for fun. What I don't do is buy ivory, and wouldn't even if it was legal. I don't support dog fighting. And I certainly don't care about the plight of some African tribes who have produced too many babies and cause their own overpopulation problems.
In other words, you like animals and don't give a rat's bazoo about humans.

[Leaky Waders]

For the OP, I recommend that you take a state sponsored hunting education course - the kind that many states require for young hunters nowadays. it teaches carrying capacity and ecology. It could be very enlightening.

[RockinU]

its a waste of time to argue with people that think animals are more important than poor people.

This

[AmosMoses]

Well, I guess the Louisiana Department of Wildlife and Fisheries ignores the "authority" that is Wikipedia in licensing me and probably 60 or so others to remove hundreds of nuisance alligators year 'round...along with the thousands of tags they issue seasonal alligator hunters every September, too.

[Art Eatman]

Amos, Wikipedia info comes FROM various sources, such as in your example of the Louisiana game folks. They don't take their info from Wiki in making their decisions.

Not all Wiki inputs are reliable, which is why school teachers and college profs disallow it as a primary source.