[Andrew Rothman]

I am getting pretty tired of seeing "Diane Fineswine", "Rosie O'donut", "Klinton" and other such denigrating appelations.

This IS the High Road, right?

Attack the gun-grabbers' positions at will. Flame their lack of common sense, decry their anti-freedom politics, despair at their inability to do simple math.

But name-calling is the last resort of petulant four-year-olds.

Fence-sitters who see such immature behavior tend to stop listening to truly valid points.

Calling a Jewish senator a "swine" is beneath contempt. Beating up on Rosie O'Donnell or Michael Moore for being fat (I've seen pictures of many THR members, and we ain't exactly wasting away!) is childish and deplorable.

Stick to the subject. Attack the person's politics, not their ethnicity, religion or body fat index.

We can do better. We should do better. Let's grow up.

[hillbilly]

All right kids, stop having fun this very instant, or you might get a stern lecture about how to behave as proper little ladies and gentlemen......

And keep your elbows off the table, and don't slouch, and chew with your mouth closed, and turn that music down, and don't watch those trashy cartoons, and don't get any part of your body pierced, and don't drive that fast..........

hillbilly

[Andrew Rothman]

That has nothing to do with what I said.

[lycanthrope]

Mpayne,

Agreed. Credibility doesn't come with name calling or slander.

I can hold my tongue to that sort of thing knowing that it is in the best interest of defending our rights and gives the antis less opportunity to label us.

[BryanP]

Unfortunately people on both sides of the issue can't seem to stick to arguing the merits of their position and have to attack the person based on appearance, patterns of speech or what not. It does nothing to add to the legitimacy of their argument, any more than yelling does. It does amuse people who already agree with them and distract people from the flaws in their arguments.

[Edward429451]

Oh, Wah.

A little frustration with the system that has totally lost sight of what the people want, no alternate recourse beyond a stacked deck political and judicial system, so people vent a little with colorful talk and wah, can't do that either.

So what do you suggest mpayne? A thank you sir may I have another?

"Oh, mr Constitutional traitor respectable sir, thank you so much for robbing me of my freedoms, would it be ok if I frowned in disagreement?"

:rolleyes:

[hillbilly]

UpChuck Schumer
UpChuck Schumer
UpChuck Schumer
UpChuck Schumer
UpChuck Schumer


Sorry, I just can't stop myself.

UpChuck Schumer
Fein-swine
UpChuck Schumer
Fein-swine

Oops....so, do I have to go to bed with no supper tonight?

hillbilly

[Hkmp5sd]

Calling a Jewish senator a "swine" is beneath contempt.
I didn't even know she was Jewish, not that it matters. But then, my only interest in her is the day she becomes former senator. Besides, I refer to her as Diane Frankenstein.

[lycanthrope]

There are people who talk........

And there are people who actually do something to help.

[JohnBT]

I believe his point is valid whether or not you choose to poke fun at him.

There are also a growing number of posts wandering off in the direction of the tinfoil hat conspiracists and arrested development anti-authoritarians. More like The Weird Road than The High Road. I see the message, and public face, that we need to be showing to the general population being marginalized by the constant flow of tangential trivia and self-centered wishful thinking. If this board is just going to be Ye Olde Clubhouse Lockeroom then maybe the name does need to be changed.

John

[Beav]

He's right read the rules of conduct if you need a refresher.

[Dr.Rob]

I don't want to be accused of oppressing anyone's First Amendment Rights But I'm getting sick of the name calling--if that's all you are going to bother to post.

Think TWICE, post once.

[Zundfolge]

While I can certainly understand why we shouldn't resort to petty name calling and we should focus our arguments on the facts, one can't eliminate more colorful forms of language.


Political Correctness is THEIR tool ... not ours.

[BluesBear]

I have read several threads about being PC on THR.
The concensus usually leans towards the "being PC is for stupid people" sentiment.

I pretty much agree with that. Since I am probably one of the most politically incorrect people you will ever meet. However I do try to at like a Southern Gentleman at least in mixed company. Mixed company doesn't mean men & women either, it means friends and strangers.

I was taught at a young age that with you say is not nearly as important as how you say it.

I freely admit that I often mention the name Rosie O'Donut.
If you want to believe that I am referring to an actually living person that's up to you. If I am or ain't doesn't really matter as long as I am not slandering anyone. Doughnuts are round, they don't standup very well on their own and have nothing in the middle. If that, to you, implies anyone in particular, living or dead, so be it.

It seems that every newspaper has political or satirical cartoonist either in house or syndicated. Humor and satire is one of the hallmarks of the American way of life.

Satire is OK, slander is not and the truth is just the truth.

Many THR members even have satirical names. And many of us even satirize ourselves.

Phonetically twisting someones name isn't always name calling nor is it always insulting. I agree that, in some cases, it could be a judgement call, it all depends on just how twisted it becomes and in what context is it used.

Personally I would never call any of our persidents "Shrub".
But I will defend the right of someone else to do so.
Remember the old "Stick & Stones" thingy?


Just my tuppence, YMMV.

After all what do I know?
Just because my parents actually named me Bear doesn't mean I was ever teased.

[hillbilly]

Ahem....... to the tune of "Yankee Doodle Dandy"

UpChuck Schumer hated guns
With Feinswine he was cozy.
Rode a donkey big and fat
named Roly-poly Rosie.

UpChuck Schumer
ban those guns
And screw the Constitution.
Round up all of those gun nuts
for your fi-nal solution.........

Next up, Somebody do a similar sarcastic song to the tune "Year of Jubilo" sarcastically sung to poke fun of fat Southern slave-owners in the Civil War. Only make it about gun banners.

Oh my, an uncivil song calling people names in the so-called Civil War.

hillbilly

[Wildalaska]

Mpayne is right..

WildwearebetterthanthemAlaska

[Edward429451]

Weeeelll, you know. Barney board's down the bandwidth some if THR's too offensive for you. This is a serious board discussing serious issues and so what if everybody in attendance isn't harvard educated. I think Oleg's done a most fantastic job of totally superceding anything TFL ever was, and that's no slight of TFL. People can speak their mind here and they are pretty much left alone to the point that stuff gets outright hostile. Very admirable moderation going on here.

Choosing to use your guy's 'red words' is simply a way to insert clarity of stance and used to convey peoples psychological/emotional stance and attitude towards a particular issue. Some talk smoother than others. Can't you hear what the people are saying? Its real people bro., and it's called language. Would you have us censor our alphabet to suit you? When you read a book do you skip the bad words?

The media pokes fun at the politicians. Hollywood pokes a lot of fun at them also. You don't want the peon citizens to have voice? Hypocrites. For the children huh? Should we not let our kids read just in case there's a poorly chosen phrase in the book? We should all strive to have a little class in how we phrase things. But you want to take people to task for semantics instead of keeping to the issue? Talk about tangenital.

I write hillbilly sometimes on purpose to shorten posts. Slang is language too wether you like it or not. Don't like it? Turn the page!

My God, you guys sound so stconfused.

[son of a gun]

http://www.justice-denied.net/schumer_takes_aim.gif

[Jammer Six]

I am getting pretty tired of seeing "Diane Fineswine", "Rosie O'donut", "Klinton" and other such denigrating appelations.

This IS the High Road, right?


Well said!

I appreciate your sentiments, and would add that those who refer to "The People's Republic of XXX", "Kalifornia", and such have never seen a truly repressive government.

It may not be nirvana, but it's the best there is, and on today of all days, I'm proud of it.

:neener:

[Mike Irwin]

"I don't want to be accused of oppressing anyone's First Amendment Rights..."

That's good, considering that this is a private board and outside the purview of the Constitution and Supreme Court... :D


"Remember the old "Stick & Stones" thingy?"

And please allow me to refer you to the precedent set in the case of "Rubber vs. Glue"...


"Diane Fineswine..."

You means da punk azz biach from Kalifonay?

[whoami]

He's right read the rules of conduct if you need a refresher.

Actually, he's not. There was a thread on this a few months ago.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17275

If we allowed personal attacks against members - THR would devolve into something resembling hardcoretalk.com

If we disallowed personal attacks against members (which we have) - THR would be exactly like it is now.

If we allowed personal attacks against public figures (which we have) - THR would be exactly like it is now.

If we disallowed personal attacks against public figures - THR would be a pretty boring place.

Therefore, unless you would prefer either a boring version of THR, or a nasty version of THR, the rules are best left as they are.

Frank Zappa said: "The United States is a nation of laws, badly written and randomly enforced."

TheBluesMan sez: "The High Road is a forum of rules, well written, but 'humanly' enforced."


BTW - my opinion's pretty much unchanged from my post in that thread...

[NukemJim]

I believe his point is valid whether or not you choose to poke fun at him.

Agreed.

NukemJim

[BluesBear]

I appreciate your sentiments, and would add that those who refer to "The People's Republic of XXX", "Kalifornia", and such have never seen a truly repressive government.
Hmmmm..
If I read the posts correctly, (yeah we'all did larn to read rittin' back in Kaintuckie) most of the people who refer to aformentioned states are...
FROM THERE!


I think if you happen actually LIVE in and pay tribute to the Duchey of Grand Fenwick, you also have the right to satirize it. But if your friends and collegues say anything offensive to you about where you live then you can say something about it to them. That is also your right.

I actually lived in the Peoples Republic of Massa-chews-its for a few months in 1993. Until now I haven't publicly referred to it as such since.
Those who are still living there, as free Americans, continue to have the right to describe it as they please.


Just my tuppence, your opinion may differ and I'm OK with that.

[Lone_Gunman]

Hmmm BluesBear, I think you may have missed the point made in the quote you have provided...

I think what the guy meant was that in comparison to a really oppressive government, such as Red China, USSR, or Nazi Germany, that living in the so called "People's Republic of Kalifornia" really isnt that bad.

[Justin]

To be completely honest, I don't particularly care if you want to call Rosie O'Donnell a name like 'Rosie O'Donut.'

In questionable taste?
Yeah.

But more than anything, names like 'Upchuck Schumer' and 'Hollyweird' have gotten hackneyed and boring. Every time I read someone's post where they call names it always distracts me from whatever point they're trying to make.

Like the sole of an old tennis shoe a lot of these names have worn really thin, and irk me far more than they ever entertained me.

[WonderNine]

I'm glad that the thought police don't run things here. While vulgarity is generally frowned upon, we have the right to call people communist scumbags or "FineSwine" if we feel like it. If you think that's childish, then that's just your opinion.

[Sven]

When I first joined TheFiringLine, I was turned off by Kalifornia and all these 'inside jokes', even if they make sense now, I think the rules of conduct should apply to those we have issues with as well. Easier said than done, or done than not said.... agree that venting at times is therapeutic, but how does it look to fence sitters?

Besides getting across the point that we are _really_ mad, does it HELP in any way?

[WonderNine]

Besides getting across the point that we are _really_ mad, does it HELP in any way?

People who can't joke about a certain subject because they are taboo are no better than the "NAZI's" they claim to hate.

[lycanthrope]

Is everyone here joking?


..........................

[teppo-shu]

Mpayne, I don't post a lot, but I do read a lot. If you want to observe a bunch of "petulant four-year-olds," feel free to take in one of the many other so-called firearms forums down the line these days. THR looks like an Ivy-league debating society compared to many of them.

I respectfully disagree with your point. I believe that the vast majority of THR-ers ARE of high mind and principles, and largely conduct themselves with appropriate decorum. I also believe we are well moderated as it is for those few who do stray from the path.

If you do not understand or appreciate the implied sarcasm in references to Klinton, O'Donut, the Grope-inator or any of the other Hollyweird spokes-holes or politicos who incessantly trash us and our rights, that is your prerogative. Don't make the mistake of presupposing yourself to be the "conscience" of the board, however.

After all, you have now started a thread which is WAY off-topic, having NOTHING to do with firearms, and which should be closed immediately.:scrutiny:

By calling the rest of us out publicly, you have also started us on that slippery slope of personal attacks and name-calling amongst ourselves that the aforementioned other boards are so infected with of late. I respectfully suggest that in the future, if you have a problem with someone's chosen way of expressing him- or herself, you make use of the PM and Ignore List features.

[ACP]

:scrutiny:

[Phyphor]

...this thread turned into a great prize.

I think Mpayne does in fact have a valid point.

I've uttered quite a few unflattering verbiage laden tirades against Feinstein myself, but not where just anyone could hear me. Keep in mind, anyone can view what is posted here on THR...... and is that really the image THR wants to put forth? Do we really want to look like a bunch of immature brats?

Let the gungrabbers make jackasses out of themselves, we surely would do well not to emulate them.

[Standing Wolf]

Calling a Jewish senator a "swine" is beneath contempt.

I believe she's actually Roman Catholic.

[bigjim]

Does anyone else find it amusing that the original poster complained about name calling by:

Calling members of THR petulant four-year-olds. Imature, which was really redundant after the first slam. Contemptable, Childish and Deplorable.

After reading his post I could not decide if he was just trying to make a point or really did not see the irony. After a short consideration I don’t care.

[BenW]

I am getting pretty tired of seeing "Diane Fineswine", "Rosie O'donut", "Klinton" and other such denigrating appelations.
So there should also be no more topics about the president with the word "shrub" in them, right? Just to be non-partisan.;)

[lycanthrope]

I suppose it depends on why we are here and why this forum exists.

If your purpose here is to further the RTKBA movement and this board is accessible to the public, then yes, appearences do matter..... Not everyone has the open mindedness to examine facts about weapons of their own accord. Many need rational and polite coaxing. I'd hate to see us put a nail in our own coffin, so to speak........

If, however, you are here simply as a place to vent frustration over asinine gov't policy then it makes sense to get a bit radical as a form of catharsis even though the general public may misinterpret it.

Which is more important to you? Would make a nice poll.......

Everytime someone cuts me off illegally at an intersection, I'd love to ram their rear bumper and draw my Kimber to promptly flatten a few tires.......after all, THEY were in the wrong aren't they? Such an act, however, would certainly come back upon myself as the dangerous villain and have negative effects on us all by a public example of poor weapons management.

My point being that someone elses ignorance cannot excuse any inappropriate or impolite action of my own. In addition, we ARE a community of gun handlers and when one of use is negligent it does reflect upon us all. Some wars are fought with bullets, some with words.....

Surely I'll get flamed for this, so keep in mind that I AM NOT for a loss of freedoms. I believe we should reserve every right of speach and freedom we can, but is now the best time to exercise those rights simply for the pleasure of doing so when it can have negative effects on us all?

Every time I bring something like this up someone will label me an anti......I'm not.

We do need some limits. That is exactly why we have Moderators, however, mention any type of personal (NOT MANDATORY) censorship and people freak out acting like anarchism is nirvana..........

The founding force behind our great republic is not a lack of Government......just one run by the people. In order to do that you have to be coherent and elaquent enough to be heard!

Edited for spelling......probably more than once!

[Don Gwinn]

It's true. Even the various perversions of Blagojevich's name here in Illinois are getting tiresome now.

However, I have zero interest in attempting to crack down on everybody who calls some anti-gun celebrity a meanyfaced name. I have plenty of friends I can help if I get the urge; no need to run myself in circles trying to prevent harmless insults to my enemies.

[Beav]

Can we have the "Rules of Conduct" changed to reflect this? Maybe get rid of the "All posts must be firearms related" since that really isn't absolute either. And then put an asterisk next to the banner.
Hows that for implied sarcasm.

[lycanthrope]

I don't think Moderators should crack down at all. We DO have the RIGHT to say what we wish.

It's just that sometimes it hurts our cause more than it helps us and that should be recognized.

I, for one, think THR Mods do a fine job with difficult topics.

[tcdrennen]

Those of us who reside in Cawleefornya (as our new Gov pronounces it :cool: ) would like to remind the rest of the Republic that Germany wasn't such a bad place to live in 1933 either, but someone should have been pointing out the similarities to the onset of tyranny and oppression.

Unless the frog should relax and enjoy the warm bath until it just gets a little TOO hot... :banghead:

If you are in a one party (Democratic) fascist (heavy state control of private industry and property) socialist (confiscatory tax policies to support state monopolies) state, the similarities can be pointed out by using short hand like DPRK. And if the ruling party is ideologically fanatic and considers opposition to be morally repugnant and heretical, calling it the Caliban is another short hand to remind us what the result can be of a failure of vigilance.

I do avoid personal name baiting of individuals... but come on, isn't Michael Moore-on just too delicious? :evil: :uhoh: :rolleyes:

[Thumper]

Anybody with a healthy sense of irony must be loving this thread.

Seriously...what's so damaging about name calling?

The High Road maintains a level of integrity and good taste I haven't seen on any other discussion board, regardless of topic.

There's certainly nothing harmful about a little tongue in cheek fun with names...especially when dealing with personal characterics of those we happen to despise.

Sticks and stones, bud...we learned that in Kindergarten.

hillbilly...thank you for your refreshing take on all this...pretty funny, in light of some of the self important PC Police populating this thread.

I kind of agree with Justin...I do hope the name callers come up with some new and entertaining stuff.

"ZERO TOLERANCE! Don't call people names, your insensitive hicks!"

Hilarious!
:evil:

[Bill St. Clair]

I have for quite a while used names of derision on my web site. I sometimes use them on bulletin boards, but not often. I tend to use them to refer to public figures who I believe are beneath contempt, people that no sane human could take seriously. Yet all of them are taken seriously enough to have won multiple elections. Amazing how well a practiced liar with no conscience can do in elective politics. Kinda makes you wonder whether elections are a good idea.

A collection of names and phrases that I use from time to time:

Hitlary Klinton
The Rapist fortunately no longer in Chief
Slick Willy
Schmucky Schumer
Bushnev
King George W
The Busheviks
Herr Riechsfuhrer Ashcroft
Heil Bushcroft
Amerika's Gestapo (aka Homeland Security Department)
The People's Repugnance of Taxachusetts (I lived there for 17 years; New York's taxes are worse)

I have occasionally thought that I would be taken more seriously if I left out the invective, but my web site is mostly a venting place, anger therapy, so I'll probably continue with the name-calling. And hey, if people don't like it, they don't have to read it.

[lycanthrope]

What's damaging is that somehow along the way, responsible gun ownership became a minority in our legislature.

Somehow, the "liberals" or the "democrats" (I'm not without tongue in cheek myself) found a way to pass legislature that resticted our rights to bear arms. Should we blame them for their ignorance or ourselves for our lack of action to allow it?

Can we afford to not do everything necessary to win our freedoms back? Does this mean to win back our government? H$ll, yeah! Can we do this when many of the general public view us as "Hicks"? We need all the help we can get.........

I'm not for censoring opinion, just presentation in a public forum. I'm not calling for Moderator intervention, just for awareness..........

Say what you will, just realize what you are doing!

[hso]

What I think the man is getting at is that some folks can't get beyond the old propaganda technique of ad hominem attacks instead of satire. If you were to call the President "Schrub" is would be an ad hominem attack focusing on his height or relationship to his father instead of policy, statements, or action (his height ain't got nothin to do with what he does as president). If you referred to him as George II you would be satirizing his possible questionable election to office or his autocratic approach to running the government. Satirizing Raving Rosie O'Donnel shouldn't be that difficult considering her reported violent temper tantrums, poor manners, and cruel treatment of the "little people" working for her. Lie'n Finestein is as easy a target. It ain't that difficult. We all look stupid when we resort to name calling that doesn't address the issue.


Description of Ad Hominem

Translated from Latin to English, "Ad Hominem" means "against the man" or "against the person."

An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

1. Person A makes claim X.
2. Person B makes an attack on person A.
3. Therefore A's claim is false.

The reason why an Ad Hominem (of any kind) is a fallacy is that the character, circumstances, or actions of a person do not (in most cases) have a bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made (or the quality of the argument being made).

[Thumper]

Lycanthrope,

As such a strong proponent of political awareness, I find it a little strange that you dismiss the attacks on the Second as innocent ignorance on the part of our enemies.

It is not simple ignorance...it is a calculated effort to render "rugged individualism" an antiquated concept.

Not on my watch, blissninnies!

[lycanthrope]

I'm just plain impressed...........

[Thumper]

Hahah...in what way impressed, lycanthrope?

[lycanthrope]

Thumper,

Where do you see that I think our enemies are innocent or ignorant?

I do not. If anything, I wish to minimize their ability to twist our words or beliefs. I concede they lie. I concede they conceal the truth. Never has that been muy issue.

SPEAK YOUR BELIEFS LOUD AND CLEAR!!!! I simply wish some would do so in a manner that the fence sitters would understand our side for once! Not in a way that builds malice and motivation in our opposition.

Good grief people. I'll be the first to bury my non essential guns and load up on ammo when they TRY to come and take them!

Is it so hard to believe?

[lycanthrope]

Um...impressed with hso. Very nicely written.......

[Thumper]

lycanthrope, did you really just make a post about clarity in what we write?

Where do you see that I think our enemies are innocent or ignorant

Please see your quote below:

Somehow, the "liberals" or the "democrats" (I'm not without tongue in cheek myself) found a way to pass legislature that resticted our rights to bear arms. Should we blame them for their ignorance or ourselves for our lack of action to allow it?

Emphasis mine, for clarity. ;)

[lycanthrope]

Emphasis for myself:

"Tongue in Cheek" (I myself am a Pro-Choice, gun toting Republican.......)

If they understood our position or were rational, they wouldn't oppose us.....

Or are they simply the AntiChrist and pure evil without purpose?

[Ewok]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calling a Jewish senator a "swine" is beneath contempt.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I believe she's actually Roman Catholic.Feinstein and Boxer are both Jewish.

[lycanthrope]

I suppose what counts is these people are in position of power and we are not. THIS needs to change.

Please tell me how this will be accomplished with slander? I guess we could do it by force, but do we really have THAT little faith in our system?

I feel the system is a good one, simply empowered by poor candidates. IMHO, to remove them we must play by civil rules.

When/if it comes to a place beyond civililty (they wish to take what is mine) then I will proudly stand my ground against our government.

[Moparmike]

While it does get a little mundane and tiresome at times, it really isnt that bad here. If the worst thing that THR does while representing the firearms community is call Diane "Mr. and Ms. America, turn them all in" Feinstine or Chuck Schumer a name based upon their contempt for their ignorance and mindless hatred of inanimate objects (firearms), then we are doing worlds better than 95% of other boards out there.

Can anyone help me with making a nickname for Senator Mark "I support hunters" Pryor?:neener:

[Bruce H]

Well if certain people are so concerned with these overbearing, in charge, treasonous can't become worm food fast enough people being called names have them become high road members. Then the rules will apply to them.

[sm]

Attraction not Promotion.
Lurker wonders why a spelling used, a reference made and continues to lurk, investigates other sources to document, takes the personal responsibilty to be informed...then RKBA is served.

It's not what you say- but how said.
To capture someone's attention-whisper.
Sometimes you have to grab hold whilst you kick them in the rear.

If one doesn't work, try another...then again some sheeple so thick skulled its takes all three and then some.

Yep I use the K to spell the last name of a former AG, and Gov of AR, whom later went to D.C. I was here and witnessed/fought against the Korrupt Kommunist ideas.

Letter C is in the word Constitution, I don't believe WJ had the Constitution in best interest.

Constitution says I have the right to be wrong tho' ;)

[Beav]

I agree that from our perspective these names are harmless. Like Lycanthrope I'm not suggesting censorship but I would hope that we would be a little more conscience of the fence sitters that may be lurking or the anti's that are questioning themselves and are looking for the "whole story". When I first came here I had a bunch of questions and I wasn't totally "convinced", if it wasn't for those who responded with sound reason I would have never seen the light due to some of the people that prefered to attack rather than educate.

How did we feel when they were taking jabs at Heston?

[ARperson]

One thing I'd like to point out here: how many of these so-called "fence sitters" do you people actually think frequent firearms boards? Really.

I know several. Hell, I know several pro-2a people who don't frequent these kinds of boards. To think that fence sitters are going to make up their mind based on the satirical language of a few people is ludicrous. To think that using satirical language makes someone inferior to you is presumptuous and holier-than-thou and I'll bet I don't need to tell you where to stick that attitude.

"MPayne, you're a dirty bastard" is namecalling.

"MPainintheneck" is satire, I'm satirizing the actions that have been taken to start this thread.

If you can't see the difference, you shouldn't be pointing the fingers.

[lycanthrope]

ONE fence sitter can teach his/her children.......who may become President.

I feel it matters that much.

[BluesBear]

There have been 58 posts and 821 views of this thread in less than 5 hours. (over 50 new views in the past 4 minutes)

The mere fact that this has been kept civil is, in itself, a testimony to the quality of people on THR.

We can agree to disagree without going totaly insane on each other.

Are we perfect? No.

Could we do better? Possibly.

Look around, even in this topic, I believe we are still taking the high road.

Is it possible that we could be taking a higher road? Look around, we already are.

[lycanthrope]

An excellent observation!

[Bill Hook]

How we treat each other is a better measure of our character and worth than whether or not we call our enemies names. I remain unconvinced that fence-sitters will be convinced by polite references to anti-RKBA personages. I also remain unconvinced that many fence-sitters actually show up here, as I think that most are those who have some slight leanings toward wanting to understand and participate in gun ownership. I would guess that many who do may have been invited here from elswhere on the net by members of THR.

[Oleg Volk]

Calling evil politicians derogatory pet names is amusing but it does impress lurkers unfavorably. We do have at least one lurker per two registered participants at almost all times. I point a lot of people to THR because it we don't come off as rabid most of the time.

[jfh]

I really think the discussion here is pretty civilized, with a lot of 'satire' used as part of the in-groupishness.

A couple of observations about MPayne: First, he is a tireless rational supporter the the MN RTC law--literally hundreds of posts, and all civil.

That's on a forum that has such a poor BBd engine and such tight moderating that I refuse to post at it--although I read it nearly daily.

We all get used to a given forum style that is surprisingly (to me, anyway) influenced by the software used to generate the discussions. I wonder if that doesn't have something to do with his prickliness.

As for me--I think the punning on Diane Fineswine is so neat that I just HAVE to use it. I've even used it in a Public Radio forum I spend most of my time in, and haven't been called on it there. BTW, I think whatisname's right--i.e., I don't know about Catholic, but that she isn't a religious Jew.

So, relax, MPayne--you have some valid criticisms--IF you want this forum to look like the Strib's--but look at the activity here! This one beats the Strib's any day of the week!

Jim H.

[Ewok]

Dianne Emiel Goldman Berman Feinstein Blum is a member of Congregation Emanu-El, a Reform synagogue at 2 Lake St, SF CA, 94118. Her San Francisco house is in a small gated community right behind the temple.

[4v50 Gary]

People have made kings, nobles and politicians the subject of jest for centuries. Casting oneself before the eyes of the public invites it. Does it mean that we're less privileged that the political cartoonist who satirizes them? Before the Revolution (ours that is), as Englishmen we were expected to speak our minds and short of making a derogatory comment towards the Crown, we were pretty free to do so. That tradition is reflected today in our First Amendment and is recognized by the Supreme Court (public figures and public officials have a higher burden to prove malice against them).

Now, on the issue of these bulletin boards, it is the Webmaster's (Oleg) decision as to the rules of decorum and he's done a darn good job of balancing our need to express ourselves in public discourse without personally attacking one another.

BTW, I plea guilty to calling Feinstein "Fine-swine" and it has nothing to do with her "Jewish" lineage and I have friends of Jewish descent who also call her that.

[hso]

"Can anyone help me with making a nickname for Senator Mark "I support hunters" Pryor?"

Senator "I won't Pry yer shotgun from yer hands, but I'll Pry her handgun out of your daughter's" so that men can shoot ducks and women can't defend themselves against rapists and kidnappers.

[Jammer Six]

Hmmm BluesBear, I think you may have missed the point made in the quote you have provided...


He certainly went quite a ways toward making it, though.

For that, I thank him.

Look around, even in this topic, I believe we are still taking the high road.


Yes, Mr. Bear, I'm sure you do.

I don't pay for shareware to make the author rich, because it doesn't.
I don't argue for women, minorities or slaves to make them free, because it won't.
I don't demand that you separate your church from my state to gain that separation, because that demand isn't enough to make any difference.
I don't use manners when addressing waiters and waitresses to make their lives better, because it probably doesn't.

I don't carry to protect myself or my loved ones, because the finite damage that my 22 rounds can do won't protect us. It isn't enough.

The reason I do these things is much simpler, and far more selfish.

I do these things simply to create the difference between myself and those that don't.

I would say that you either are aware of that difference, and you cherish it, or you aren't, and don't.

That, of course, creates another degree of difference. Either way, it isn't my problem.

California was once known by another name, and was home to a race of Warriors. Natural selection was very much in vogue, and the only people who lived there were the strong. California's history is centuries long and proud, and every magnificent adjective in our language can be used, at one point or another, to describe that history. It was the magnet for the bulk of the Western migration a century and a half ago, and two weeks ago, the voters of that state demonstrated that if the politicians make the voters angry enough, we, the people won't even wait until the the next election- we will recall them immediately, and we will replace them with someone, anyone, rather than tolerate intolerable leadership. Lead us where we wish to go, or vacate your office. There are no other choices. Now, that's power.

In a repressive government, the leadership won't vacate it's power simply because it is the people's wish.

California just flexed it's muscles, and made every American politician look over his/her shoulder, and re-consider their chosen course.

Well done, California! What a victory, for all of us!

One of my laborers and I had lunch recently, and we stopped in a Safeway to look over their deli. On the way to the deli, we passed a table of clearance items, one of which was bandanas. Bandanas, of every hue, design and pattern, three for a dollar.

One of them was our national colors.

He picked it up, and looked at me. I didn't say a word, and just looked back at him.

"Oh, what?" he said.

"Are you one of those people who thinks the flag means something?"

"Yes", I said, "and perhaps the most important thing it means is that you can blow your nose on it if you wish."

And then I didn't say another word, and he put that bandana down, and chose another pattern as his third choice.

"The High Road."

Possibly. Indeed. Could be, up until this point.

History, however, isn't what this thread is about.

This thread is about choice.

"The High Road."

We said that it didn't matter, because what we do over here won't matter when we get home. We were wrong. What you do in the face of the enemy is the only thing that matters. The rest is arm waving.

"The High Road."

The political opposition, no matter what your cause or party, is not made up of fools. While believing that they are fools may make it easier to get to sleep at night, it's simply whistling past the graveyard. The political opposition in this country is college educated, extremely intellegent, well versed in not only our system but in how that system is best used to their advantage, and has access to millions of dollars and the best experts on all facets of our system and how to win that money can buy.

"The High Road."

If you do not occupy the moral high ground, you guarantee that your opposition will, and you guarantee that it will look all the better on him in contrast to you. Your very lack of respect will be held against you.

The High Road.

Yes.

That would be my choice, and that has my vote. Which is, in spite of what many of you believe, my most powerful weapon.

Happy Veteran's Day.

Fire at will.

[Mark Tyson]

Maybe we could stop calling Democrats Demonrats or Democraps or whatever the pejorative of the week is, too. And stop calling them communists and socialists, 'cause most of them just ain't.

[Joe Demko]

Maybe we should all start by posting only when we have something substantive to add to a thread. There have been a number of threads lately that devolved into mob scenes and were locked. If all you have to add to a thread is one more duplicative piece of personal abuse, why not just save it?

[Obiwan]

The name calling is fairly juvenile...which doesn't stop it from being funny at times!

And maybe we could just stop posting entire articles from liberal rags that I don't feel inclined to read. (To be fair ...stop posting complete articles from consevative sources as well)

If you have a point to make...make it

If you want to link a liberal or conservative source link it.

But don't fill post up with claptrap written by someone with an obvious agenda and claim it as fact.

[Andrew Rothman]

I am gratified by all of the thoughtful discourse on this topic.

Some brief clarification of my views:

I am not calling for censorship
But some occasional self-restraint is sometimes in order. Free speech is good. Everyone has a right to sound like an idiot. But does that mean you should?

Criticism is good
But shouldn't you criticise what you disagree with, and not the opponents' size, stature, or spelling of his last name?

Satire is good
Name calling is bad. So "Gun Grabber Gore" is fair game. "Grizzly Gore" because of his beard is not satire, just name-calling. (And yes, those are lame examples. Some of the names called here made me chuckle - the first dozen times.)

I am not advocating political correctness
Truth is truth, regardless of whose ox is gored. But name calling is still childish, and makes the writer look far worse than his victim.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander
I don't like President Bush. Not at all. Not his politics, not his intelligence, not his cabinet. But I ALWAYS refer to him as "President Bush" or "The President," even when my next words are "...is an idiot." I do it out of respect for the office, respect for our system, and respect for myself.

I'm not knocking THR.
It is generally a very civil, friendly place. I've learned a heck of a lot here, and had a very good time. The moderators are most usually restrained and fair.

I'm not telling you what to say
But I am asking you to think for yourself about how you say it.

[TheBluesMan]

That is a great post, Mpayne! :)

All I can add is: Amen!

[Country Boy]

Stick to the subject. Attack the person's politics, not their ethnicity, religion or body fat index. I really can't see how you can argue with the above statement from Mpayne's original post.

Is calling a past NRA president "Charlton 'Ape Boy' HeStunk" distasteful? Hopefully so. Name-calling is name-calling. We can do better.

As Oleg said Calling evil politicians derogatory pet names is amusing but it does impress lurkers unfavorably.

Thanks for making us all think Mpayne!

[Mark Tyson]

I think there's a line between a harmless pet name and a vicious insult. Grizzly Gore doesn't seem that bad. Feinswine on the other hand is pretty nasty. Shrub, Dubya or Junior don't seem bad. Asscroft is pretty low.

And yes I'm guilty too of a little name calling.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Asscroft is pretty low.
Dang right it is. Heard it quite a bit as a kid.

[Andrew Rothman]

Thanks for making us all think Mpayne!
I would never MAKE people think. That would be wrong. Whether they choose to think or not should not be forced upon them. :D At best, I try to encourage people to think. :)

But you're welcome.

[pax]

MPayne,

My sig.

pax

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you: but if you really make them think, they'll hate you. -- Don Marquis

[buzz_knox]

On various threads, I have seen people politely state that they would not lift a finger to assist another human being whom they didn't know even if that person was being robbed/raped/murdered. It's justified as being "not my job" or "none of my business" or "I'm only out for myself." Yet that attitude isn't described as being "off the high road" while calling someone else names is. Amazing.

Personally, I think lurkers tend to be turned off more by the substance of some of the posts than derogatory nicknames.

[JohnBT]

I certainly agree with that.

I enjoy cursing and talking loudly, but try not to do it in public - and this board is open to the public.

The cutesy names, abbreviations and all that name calling stuff is not an issue of being PC or not PC. To me it is simply a case of too much of a good thing threatening to turn THR into a parody of itself.

There's a hunting board I frequent where they've taken to referring to Remingtons as SUCKS. It was cute at first to see a new a new post titled "I got me a new SUCKS 7mm Mag." Now it's just an old worn out joke. I wonder how it appears to visitors to their site?

John

[Don Galt]

Actually, I think the name calling is problematic. For instance, I often see democrats called socialists. And while this is true to the extent that the democrats have adopted parts of the socialist platform, it is a shortcut from actually making the argument that democrats have adopted specific planks.

On the other hand, the republican party is just as socialist. But people go ballistic if you point that out.

Thus the term "socialist" has gone from being a term denoting a particular political philosophy to a badge of dishonor to be thrown at your opponents. This impedes debate.

Also, too many threads are locked because some troublemakers jump in and start deliberately calling people names. The thread gets locked, and the trouble makers go on to shut down another thread that has opinions they don't like. Instead of being forced to justify their positions, they are able to shut down other people's opinions.

Oh, and that damn alaska thread. On topic. Cordial. And locked anyway. And my complaints have been ignored. I'm just bitter about that one cause it was a great thread! Hell, the person who locked it apologized when they were doing it.

I think we need a new rule:

IF you feel the need to apologize as you're locking a thread, you shouldn't be locking it. :D

[BluesBear]

But the Alaska thread that you KEEP whining about every chance you get WAS off topic. :rolleyes:

You can't have every 8th or 10th post casually mention firearms "just to keep this on topic" OWTTE. The post you keep on complaining about had turned into an essay on weather conditions and topography.

The moderator who closed it admitted it was interesting reading.
There are a lot of things that are interesting reading and interesting to discuss but that doesn't mean they are, or should be, a High Road topic.

[bigjim]

Speaking of off topic Blues bear........

This thread is about guns in what way again?

[BluesBear]

BigJim,

Look up at the top and notice which catagory this thread occurs.

Technical Support is where you discuss THR matters.

The Alasks post that has been bemoaned about all over the place was located un the FIREARMS section.

Discussing the weather & topography of Alaska in here would be off topic as well.

[Sven]

Threads about TheHighRoad are ON Topic, and "Technical Support" is as good of a place for these discussions as any.

Also, too many threads are locked because some troublemakers jump in and start deliberately calling people names. The thread gets locked, and the trouble makers go on to shut down another thread that has opinions they don't like. Instead of being forced to justify their positions, they are able to shut down other people's opinions.

Here's what I've seen many times: troublemaker A posts something off-topic or "Low Road". Then upstanding THR members B, C and D take troublemaker A to task IN THE THREAD for being on the Low Road. Meanwhile, posters E and F respond seriously to troublemaker A, which makes it worse and worse and worse, and more and more difficult to untangle.

Suggestions when you see something wrong:

a) Don't point it out in the thread if the thread is otherwise on topic (!)
b) PM the person to discuss why behavior isn't HighRoad worthy
c) PM a moderator who can take action swiftly

...I think you would see more posts stay opened. When the thread is such a massive cluster-you-know-what that removing the 'shrapnel' from every reactive post would take hours, its easier to banish the thread and hope whatever subject was covered comes up again in the future.

[Don Galt]

BluesBear-- that's bull????, and calling me a "Whiner" is not taking the high road.

The Alaska thread was in the General section, not the "FIREARMS" section.

There is no more appropriate section here.

And the thread was on topic. BY the standards used to close the Alaska thread, %90 of the threads in legal and political should be closed-many of them have nothing to do with firearms.

Hey, and if you didn't like the thread, you didn't have to read the effing thing.

But go ahead, I disagreed with you, so call me some more names.