Belgian mauser questions


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BM454
December 26, 2009, 05:02 AM
My son got a Belgian mauser from his uncle for Christmas,I'm out of town on a job and won't be back until next week.
I want to make sure he has,number one,the right ammunition,number two,a collectors piece that doesn't need to thrash around the woods deer hunting.
From the somewhat blurry pictures he took with his cell phone,these are the markings I could make out.
Left side of the receiver rail, "FAB. NAT. D'ARMES de GUERRE HERSTAL - BELGIQUE"

That makes me think it's a converted military Mauser,I know what "GUERRE" means.

The markings,from what I can see in the picture,from left-right assuming it's on the left side of the chamber.
7 m/mM,the letter "T" ?,crown and letter "R" underneath,lion?,letters "PV",star with letter "S" underneath,what appears to be,and I can't tell because of the glare something shaped like a handgrenade,a pineapple or the US Army ordnance symbol.

Questions,I read somewhere that the letter underneath the crown is for the king,some rifles have the letter "L" for king Leopold,I googled belgian kings,couldn't find any who's name started with the letter "R"

Is this rifle a 7x57mm?
Is it a collector's rifle?


http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Collin1994/Collinsrifle2.jpg
or
http://s887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Collin1994/?action=view&current=Collinsrifle2.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Collin1994/Collinsrifle1.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Collin1994/Collinsrifle.jpg
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Collin1994/Collinsrifle1.jpg


Maybe I don't have enough posts to create Albums of images,I hope it's not against any rules to post these links,I just want to make sure he gets the right ammo,I've seen the results of people using the wrong ammo,it's not a pretty sight.
Thanks for any responses

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interlock
December 26, 2009, 05:23 AM
what he has is a sporterised belgian FN mauser. The FN Mauser is one of the best mauser actions available. It would APPEAR to be in 7 x 57. however replacement mauser barrels are cheap from midway et al. it would be certianly worth having it checked out at your gunshop to ensure that is correct. as for being a collectors piece.... not really. but a great rifle for deer hunting and anything else. here is apicture of mine.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff91/ukroehunter/mauser/DSCF2940.jpg

dirtyjim
December 26, 2009, 08:03 AM
its a sporterized military rifle. most likely a fn 1950. it has a 7x57 barrel that i think also has belgian proofs. i've built several rifles on those receivers.

Boris Barowski
December 26, 2009, 08:07 AM
Fabrique National d'armes de guerre Herstal is just the official name of the FN company.
For Proofmarks of Belgium, you can go to http://proefbankstempels.nl/belgi%C3%AB2.html . Yes it is in dutch, but, if you find the one you are looking for i can translate :)

NCsmitty
December 26, 2009, 09:44 AM
BM454,
An FN Mauser is not usually a collector rifle, but it is a desirable action/rifle as interlock mentioned. It does appear to be chambered in 7MM Mauser, which is a great hunting caliber. I would clean the barrel and check the bore before using, just to make sure that it's safe to shoot.

I have a 1952 FN Mauser custom, chambered in 308 Norma Magnum.


NCsmitty

BM454
December 26, 2009, 06:03 PM
Thanks all,I translated that Belgium proofmarks page,like most people from Belgium,they speak Dutch,at least the 60% that live in Flannders,the French speaking people are from the southern region of Wallonia,inhabited by 31%.
The Brussels capital region is officially bilingual,but a mostly French-speaking
enclave,I have a friend from Belgium who tried to explain this to me,and some help from wikipedia,my friend speaks four languages,as I thought,Guerre is French for "war"

The "R" under the crown means "rifled"

What looks like a lion and the letters "PV" mean.........

Last test with smokeless gunpowder Militaire geweren Military rifles

All firearms
1898 - 1903 1898 - 1903

From 1903

The "pineapple" proof means.......

Final testing with heavy black powder All run After 1898

His mother,my dear sweet ex complained that the ammunition was $20 for a box of 20 rounds,she bought them from sportsman's warehouse.
Thats pretty high,I plan on buying a re-loader and set it up for what I shoot,
.308,.223,.40cal,45 ACP and 9mm.

From what I've read,the 7x57mm shoots very well,I heard,"like a dream",sounds like a nightmare for the wallet though,unless brass is easy to get at a decent price

interlock-beautiful rifle
Boris Barowski-Thanks for the link,I searched for hours with no luck,home run
dirtyjim-what options do I have,if I wanted to re-barrel it? Would you?
NCsmitty-Thanks for the heads up,always good to hear from a fellow Tarheel

Boris Barowski
December 26, 2009, 06:50 PM
I see you've got the basic facts about Belgium right :) I'm from the northern part, a couple of miles from Brussels. I speak 3 languages, and trying to learn a fourth :)

The S with a star above it is the mark of the guy who proofed the rifle. If you'd like I can look into the name of the person who did. The rifle was proofed in Liege (Walloon region) either between 1952 and 1968 or between 1974 and 1980.

BM454
December 28, 2009, 12:32 AM
Boris,
forgive me,I didn't notice that you're Belgium(is that the right word for people from your country?)

In Dutch
Thank you so much, zou het erg aardig van je dat je kunt kijken in de naam van de persoon die heeft het "bewijs markering".Hoe zijn de wetten in uw land over de eigendom van de moderne semi-automatische geweren militaire stijl?

I hope it stays in the family,as all good firearms should.

Do you know of a link to what this rifle looked like before it became sporterized?

Did it look like a 98K?

Roadkill
December 28, 2009, 11:41 AM
I have one of those in 30-06. Thanks for the great information. I have a question: what are the three protrusions on the left side of the receiver? The center has threads.

Here's mine:

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php/photo/533302/size/big/cat//ppuser/28079


http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php/photo/532872/size/big/cat//ppuser/28079


http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php/photo/532870/size/big/cat//ppuser/28079


http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php/photo/532867/size/big/cat//ppuser/28079

http://www.hunt101.com/showphoto.php/photo/532868/size/big/cat//ppuser/28079

Boris Barowski
December 29, 2009, 02:35 PM
BM454,

I understand your Dutch, it's very nice you took the time to write something in my language :) (some minor mistakes, but some Belgians (especially Walloons) write way worse. Getting a Dutch sentence right isn't easy, it's quite quirky ;)) Where is your friend from?

To answer your question, we can have most military-style semi-automatic rifles. But we need prior authorization from the province (similar to US counties). This is subject to some restriction (barrel length has to be a certain length. What is long enough is subjective. Often you get a 14" AR authorized, sometimes not. 16" is almost never a problem. 10" often will be problematic, although not always.) There are no restrictions on evil features, such as pistol grips, collapsible/folding stocks, removable flash hiders or barrel shrouds. Full auto and silencers are forbidden, no way to get them. From request to authorization it takes somewhere between 3 weeks and 4 months, depending on what province you are in and how motivated the police is to get their "inquiry into the morality of the subject" back to the province. If denied, you can appeal federally. In recent years they moved to a more Shall-issue system based on objective rules. It has improved but we're not 100% there yet.

All in all, it's not that bad, but the waiting is sometimes quite annoying. The lack of shooting ranges and the cost of guns and ammo are far worse. (Cheapest new AR-15 is about 1400 euro (= 2000 USD)). Surplus rifles cost a lot too, even European ones (a K31 will set you back about €300/$430, a mosin-nagant 91/30 about €220/$315)

If there is something else you'd like to know, just ask :) some transatlantic information sharing is always nice :)

I'm looking into the proofhouse employees name. I'll PM you when I get word back :)

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