[csd4682]

Well I got the Lee aniversery complete reloading kit for Christmas and am ready to get my feet wet with reloading. I am sure I'm going to have toms of questions, but here are a few. The round I will be reloading is the 270wsm. I have a rem. model seven stainless with 22" barrel. I will be practicing with some spent win supreme brass. I fully understand (I think) the de-priming, but not the full case resizing. It seems that when I deprime its very easy, however when I continue to pull the lever down to resize, it becomes very difficult to pull down about half way. I am assuming that since its a full length resizer the shell holder with case in it should go all the way into the die right? My next question has to do with crimping. The die set came with the resizing and seating die,and from what I understand, the seating die creates a roll crimp? The crimping part is what I really dont get. All of the product info that came with the set keeps advertising the "Factory Crimp Die" Do I need this die or will mine work? In very small print it says that if using the die that I have, I should use bullets that have that knurled ring already in them. Is this true? I am hoping not because I want to use a bullet that doesnt have this. It seems that the crimp is very important when reloading for hunting purposes, and that will be my sole purpose. I plan on getting the abc's while learning and I have a friend and his father to go to as well, and they have been reloading for a number of years, but I was hoping some of you guys have experiance with this setup. I guess I am really trying to figure out what kind of bullets to purchase to use the die that I already have, and trying to understand the whole crimp process as well. I must say that I was really excited to get this kit, but I am becoming very nervous about reloading, and although the Lee kit that I have seems to be very well built, their instructions are quite vague. Another aspect that I really dont understand, and not sure if I need some more tools is howfar to seat the bulltet. I know I will be getting a caliper, but I also see tools that use a special empty case and appear to go into the chamber to see where the bullet touches the lands? dont really understand this either. PLease know that I am very cautious and dont plan on just "going at it" I know I have a lot to learn, and I hope no one starts making it a point to tell me to "know what you are doing" because thats what im trying to do. Thanks for any help. I'm sure there are many, many more questions to come. Thank you to all who have made posts on this site, all the info I have gotten so far has been great.

[nelson133]

First off, relax, Rome wasn't built in a day. You do need a caliper and a case trimmer, Lee sells a trimmer for a very reasonable price. Bottle neck cartridges tend to grow over repeated firings as the brass flows toward the neck under the heat and pressure of firing the round. This lengthens the brass and it must be trimmed back to factory length or you can end up with problems. You will also need a chamfer tool to take the rough edges off of the case neck after trimming. Again Lee has a cheap serviceable one.
All rifle cartridges need to be lubed to resize. Staightwall pistol cartridges can use carbide dies and don't need to be lubed. Without lube the effort to push the case into the die is very high and it may not want to come out at all. Most experiences reloaders have stuck a case in a die and removing it is a PITA.
If you are just reloading for one rifle, full length resizing may not necessary. The body of the brass case will expand to fit your rifles chamber and you may be able to get away with just resizing the neck. Since all rifles have slightly different chamber sizes, loading for more than one rifle of the same caliber would require full length resizing. The less you work your brass, l
the longer it will last.
On the subject of crimping, if you are going to us the Factory Crimp Die, you don't have to use a tight crimp in the bullet seating/crimp die. Just get the bullet seated to the right depth with a light crimp and use the FCD to put a final crimp on it. Lee has some videos on the www.leeprecision.com site that may be of use, their are helpful videos on youtube also.
Now, to answer a couple of questions that you didn't ask. Don't try to see how hot you can load, these newer Magnums are often right on the edge as it is and turning your new rifle into a hand grenade is not a good idea. Start with a load about 10% under maximum and work your way up SLOWLY, there will be steps that you may be able to shorten when you are more experienced but beginners (and we've all been there) don't necessarily don't know what they don't know. Get at least one good reloading manual. Lee has one that will not only give you load data, but detailed instructions on how to use your equipment. Load data is available free on the internet from most of the powder and bullet companies. Who better to give you data about loads, than the guys who make the stuff?
Reloading can be a lifetime hobby and very rewarding. Boards like this one are a great resource, ask all the questions you need to.

[JimKirk]

Do you have a reloading manual? If not get one! Maybe Three would be better! Read the "How to" in each manual. Follow each step ....step by step... Then come back here with the parts you don't understand. Reloading is a "Hands on" learning process. Until you do the steps needed you will not fully understand them. Kinda like telling some one how to ride a bike...until you get into the seat ....
But ....here is a short(long) how to
I assume you have a 2 die set of dies...This is for the 270 WSM and most bottle necked rifle cases.
Step # 1
With the ram all the way up...Screw the sizing die(empty) down until the bottom of the die touches the shell holder
move ram down slightly .. screw die down 1/4 turn or more ..raise ram .. you should get a cam over effect or a bump sound.this takes all the slack out of the die-shellholder connection.
Lube a case, no lube on shoulder, lube inside of case mouth... with a good sizing lube.
Adjust the depriming PIN so that it sticks out of the bottom sizing die about 1/8 " lock it down.
Place case in shell hold ..raise ram all the way ..there should be no space between shellholder and die ...if there is adjust die down more.
Primer should be punched out ...lower ram.
Prime case.
Step # 2
Seating die ...screw seating stem out or up toward top of die.
Case in shell holder ..raise ram all the way up....screw die down until you feel it touch case.. screw the die 1/4 turn back up(it may take 1/2 ) lock die down.
Place bullet into case (after using the correct powder and amount listed in manual).
Raise ram all the way up ...screw seating stem down until it touches bullet. Keep screwing stem down until you get Correct Over all Length(COL). This will take several tries of measuring and screw stem down. You do not need to crimp the 270 WSM .

Jimmy K

[CZ223]

You have a lot of questions, as well you should.:)

First off let me say that if you don't have at least one reloading manual you need to get one, now. Most manuals, if not all, will explain the process in great detail one step at a time. I started with a Speer manual, I thought that it was very easy to understand. Read your manual thorughly starting with how to set your sizing decapping/resizing die, there will also be instructions that come with the dies. Read those too. Once you understand those you might want to decap/size 10-20 cases. Then read the sections about priming, belling, measuring powder etc. As you grasp the concept proceed one step at a time.

Now to your specific questions. First, since you are reloading a rifle cartridge you will need to lube the cases. If you have not done this already, stop before you get one stuck in the die. It will ruin your die and your day. You will feel more resistance once the die has started to resize the case, this is natural. As far as adjusting the dies properly, start with reading the directions that come with them. Once you have set the dies up properly, size one case and check that it goes into the chamber of rifle easily. If it doesn't you will have to adjust the die to where it does. Rcbs recommends leaving a nickle space between the base of the die and shell holder, if I remember correctly.

Crimping, not to be redundant but read the book, it will explain when you need to crimp and when you do not. In the case of most rifle bullets with out the cannelure you do not need to crimp the bullet. Your sizeing die resizes the the neck to ensure proper "neck tension". If you are using a bullet with cannelure you can roll crimp. I have never been a fan of the Lee Factory crimp die. Why buy a premium bullet and then distort it by putting a crease in it? I know that the 270WSM is a heavy recoiler and the model 7 is a light gun, the worst possible combination. If you find that your bullets are creeping from recoil then you may need to use a cannelured bullet with crimp to prevent this.

Seating the bullet, this a hunting rifle so what you are most concerned about is safety and and that it function properly. Seating the bullet too far out may cause the round to hang up in the magazine. It might also cause the rifle to close hard because this means you're pushing the bullet into the lands. Not desireable for a hunting rifle. There are times when you may want to start the bullet into or just off the lands but not in this case. That is something you would do with a target rifle or varmint rifle. To determine where you want to set your die you could use this approach. Using an unprimed, resized case seat the bullet into the case and adjust the die down to where the round fits in the mag. Give it a little extra room. Check to make sure that the bolt closes easily. Check to make sure that it doesn't mark the bullet when closed like it is starting into the lands. Visually compare it to a factory round. If it looks right it probably is. You should get a caliper very soon but, the books generally only tell you maximum lenghth. They don't tell you how deep is too deep. When you seat the bullet deeper you decrease case capacity which increases pressure. That is bad. So you don't want to seat the bullet too deep. Which is why everyone tells you to start at or even below the recomended starting loads when you first start reloading for a new cartridge. Don't get too nervous just go slow and you should be fine. There are plenty of people to help answer the questions you will have.

Equipment, since I don't know what comes in this kit all I will only tell you one thing. If it does not include a scale and a powder measure and instead comes with Lee dippers, throw them out and get a good scale and powder measure. Measuring the correct amount of powder is the most important step and should be done accurately with precision equipment not spoons.:evil:

[JimKirk]

Just a side note: Just because a bullet has a crimp cannelure does not mean you have to crimp. I do not crimp my 270 WSM, I have never had any significant bullet creep, you may have, but I would not crimp unless I had to. Read the famous BS from the famous loading equipment maker and believe his BS so he can sell you crimp dies, believe if you will, I'm a non-believer.

Jimmy K

[Walkalong]

I agree with all the advise about getting a manual. It will answer most, if not all, of your questions. Then you will be able to ask more specific, well informed questions.

It seems that when I deprime its very easy, however when I continue to pull the lever down to resize, it becomes very difficult to pull down about half way.

The decapper should not stick way out of the die at the bottom, maybe 1/4 to 3/8". Sounds like you may have it too far down and it is hitting the bottom of the case possibly.

I am assuming that since its a full length resizer the shell holder with case in it should go all the way into the die right?With no case in the shell holder, run the ram all the way up. Screw the sizer die down until it hits the shell holder. Run the ram down and turn the die in another 1/2 turn. Then run the ram all the way back up to see if the handle can still go all the way down "camming over" at the bottom. If it can not, turn the die back up a little until it can.

The die set came with the resizing and seating die,and from what I understand, the seating die creates a roll crimp?Yes, the die can roll crimp. You must read the directions to set it up. Very easy. You do not have to crimp at all. That is very easy to set up as well. A good manual describes these two things in detail. ;)

All of the product info that came with the set keeps advertising the "Factory Crimp Die" Do I need this die or will mine work? In very small print it says that if using the die that I have, I should use bullets that have that knurled ring already in them. Is this true? I am hoping not because I want to use a bullet that doesnt have this. It seems that the crimp is very important when reloading for hunting purposes, and that will be my sole purpose.

You do not need the factory crimp die, but some folks really like it. It uses a different way to crimp than standard crimp dies (a collet). Case length is not critical and the bullet does not need a cannelure. (knurled ring as you said) It is not critical to crimp for hunting ammo. Many do not. Good neck tension is all you really need and the dies are set up from the factory to provide this. They usually do a good job of it. If you want to crimp, and don't want to use bullets with cannelures, then the FCD for rifle would be a good choice.

Another aspect that I really dont understand, and not sure if I need some more tools is howfar to seat the bulltet. I know I will be getting a caliper, but I also see tools that use a special empty case and appear to go into the chamber to see where the bullet touches the lands? dont really understand this either.
If your bullet has a cannelure, seat it to where the case mouth is in the center of the cannelure. Then crimp or don't crimp, your choice, but you have your O.A.L. (Over All Length-some use C.O.A.L. - Catridge Over All Length).

If you have bullets with no cannelure you will need to seat to a similar O.A.L. to ensure your bullet is not seated into the lands. You can seat one with no powder and chamber it to see if you are OK. Again, a good manual will describe this in detail. My suggestion is to use a bullet with a cannelure to start just to make things easier.

You can get a fancy tool to measure how far off the lands you are, and directions will come with it, but it just isn't needed to load good hunting ammo that will work and shoot well. It's a fun toy for later that might improve your accuracy, might.

Get some calipers. These from HF (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47257) go on sale for 15 to 20 bucks pretty regularly, and work great.

PLease know that I am very cautious and dont plan on just "going at it" I know I have a lot to learn, and I hope no one starts making it a point to tell me to "know what you are doing" because thats what im trying to do. Thanks for any help. I'm sure there are many, many more questions to come. Thank you to all who have made posts on this site, all the info I have gotten so far has been great.
It is good to be cautious and go slow. You will be fine. Get your manual soon. Come back and ask questions. :)

[rfwobbly]

Mr 4682 -
Merry Christmas! "Santa been berry, berry good to you!" :D

Secondly, welcome to the best hobby ever. Like cooking a turkey, this reloading stuff takes a little while to get the hang of. There are tricks, all sorts of inside information, and the list of tools and equipment never seems to end. But it is educational and engaging. It's so addictive, that it won't be anytime at all and your wife will be showing up in your "man cave" begging you to come to bed! :what:

Well, almost.

Let me underscore everything said above and add some of my own....
• Get a reloading manual for the brand of bullets you're using
• Size and load a couple of "test cartridges" (no powder, no primer) and try those in your rifle first
• Put your locale in your profile so help will know your approximate location. The best tip I can give you is to meet an experienced local reloader. Someone to look over your shoulder and share tips with. There's just so much to know to this hobby.
• Keep reading!

All the best.

[Walkalong]

Well, almost.Yea, almost. ;) :D

[flashhole]

- "Well I got the Lee aniversery complete reloading kit for Christmas and am ready to get my feet wet with reloading."

Is this the kit with the Breech Lock loading system?


- I am sure I'm going to have toms of questions, but here are a few. The round I will be reloading is the 270wsm. I have a rem. model seven stainless with 22" barrel. I will be practicing with some spent win supreme brass.

Were the brass you have fired in your gun? If yes, you can neck size only. If no, they need to be full length resized.

- I fully understand (I think) the de-priming, but not the full case resizing. It seems that when I deprime its very easy, however when I continue to pull the lever down to resize, it becomes very difficult to pull down about half way.

De-priming and resizing (full length resizing or neck resizing) are done in the same step with a single die. The de-priming stem is adjusted so the depriming pin protrudes just below the bottom of the case but not so far that the neck sizing button makes contact with the inside bottom of the case. The length of the decapping pin ensures there is plenty of adjustment room and is an easy adjustment to make.

The case must be lubed to be run through the full length resizing die. If it is not adequately lubed it will most likely stick in the die. The only bottle neck cartridge die on the market that is designed specifically to not need lube is the Lee Collet Neck Die that squeezes the neck against a mandrel for resizing. There are lots of good lubes on the market. When full length resizing a case I prefer Imperial Die Sizing Wax marketed by Redding. Just a small amount goes a long way.

Most bench mount presses provide a huge mechanical advantage and you should not have an excessive amout of resistance when full length sizing with a properly lubed case.

There are a few things that can be done as good practice to make the resizing step easier. You can decap the brass in a separate step and wash it in hot soapy water. This will remove grit, especially hard carbon deposits from spent primers that shorten barrel life. You can polish the neck sizing button on your decapping stem to reduce friction. You can clean the inside of the neck with a brush to reduce friction. And, you can lube the inside of the neck to reduce friction. Reducing neck friction will greatly reduce or eliminate case stretching on the upstroke of the ram. When lubing just the necks I use a small container of #9 shot sprinkled with powdered graphite and dip the neck in this a couple of time before running it in the die.

- I am assuming that since its a full length resizer the shell holder with case in it should go all the way to the die right?

Yes, that is correct. Lee presses have a mechanical stop on the linkage that prevent them from camming over. They do this by design such that you will always have a hard stop on the down stroke of the ram. For your press the die should be adjusted (screwed into the press) to bottom out on the shell holder at the down stroke of the ram. There will be a minimum depth where this will occur. If you adjust beyond this depth nothing will change except the length of pull of the handle. The more you screw it in the less throw you will have of the ram.


- My next question has to do with crimping. The die set came with the resizing and seating die,and from what I understand, the seating die creates a roll crimp? The crimping part is what I really dont get.

Yes, the seating die you have will provide a roll crimp when adjusted to do so. Bullets with a cannelure (the crimp ring) are meant to be crimped. You will not need to crimp, nor should you crimp, a smooth wall bullet. Resizing your case to provide adequate neck tension is very important to ensure proper bullet seating but it is not mandatory to crimp. You have a bolt gun so you do not need to be concerned about excessive recoil slamming bullets into one another like in a lever gun.

- All of the product info that came with the set keeps advertising the "Factory Crimp Die" Do I need this die or will mine work?

Yours will work if you need to adjust it to crimp. The Factory Crimp Die is nice to have and a lot of people, including me, like to crimp in an separate step. The alternative to a roll crimp that your die will provide is a profile crimp that exerts pressure on a longer length of the neck and squeezes it down around the bullet as opposed to a roll crimp that collapses the top ring of the neck around the bullet. A mild profile crimp can be used on smooth wall bullets to help ensure consistent ignition pressure.

- In very small print it says that if using the die that I have, I should use bullets that have that knurled ring already in them. Is this true?

Yes, same comments as above apply to this statement.

- I am hoping not because I want to use a bullet that doesnt have this. It seems that the crimp is very important when reloading for hunting purposes, and that will be my sole purpose.

You do not have to crimp a smooth wall bullet for your gun.


- I plan on getting the abc's while learning and I have a friend and his father to go to as well, and they have been reloading for a number of years, but I was hoping some of you guys have experiance with this setup. I guess I am really trying to figure out what kind of bullets to purchase to use the die that I already have, and trying to understand the whole crimp process as well.

I will echo what others will tell you. You can't read too much about reloading steps and proceedures. There are lots of good manuals. Get more than one manual and cross reference load data. I have Lee, Nosler, IMR, Hodgdon, Hornady, and a few other reference books too.

- I must say that I was really excited to get this kit, but I am becoming very nervous about reloading, and although the Lee kit that I have seems to be very well built, their instructions are quite vague. Another aspect that I really dont understand, and not sure if I need some more tools is how far to seat the bullet.

A device like this http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=365474 makes it much easier to produce consistent ammo because it uses the ogive (side wall curvature) of the bullet as the datum reference. Bullet tips can get damaged and cause irregular seating depth measurements. You can make one of these dedicated to your 270 cartridge by drilling a hole in one face of a hex nut. The hole needs to be smaller than the bullet diameter to work. The bullet manufacturer will generally also produce a loading manual and prescribe a seating depth for the bullet based on cartridge overall length (COL). I recommend you get the basics of reloading down and then ask questions about optimizing bullet seating depth. You will need to have the bullets seated far enough to cycle through your magazine and not engage the lands in the barrel.

- I know I will be getting a caliper, but I also see tools that use a special empty case and appear to go into the chamber to see where the bullet touches the lands? dont really understand this either.

Yes, a caliper is a basic tool but as stated above, get the basics down and then probe into the finer aspects of reloading.

- PLease know that I am very cautious and dont plan on just "going at it" I know I have a lot to learn, and I hope no one starts making it a point to tell me to "know what you are doing" because thats what im trying to do. Thanks for any help. I'm sure there are many, many more questions to come. Thank you to all who have made posts on this site, all the info I have gotten so far has been great.

We've all been there, welcome to our hobby.

Merry Christmas.

[ranger335v]

CSD, just a thought; breaking up really long posts into paragraphs will make them much easier for others to read and follow.

[rfwobbly]

...breaking up really long posts into paragraphs will make them much easier for others....

Purely as an observation: The "paragraph" might be one of the few items in the modern world that predates the firearm!

:D

[Fatelvis]

I am in total agreement with the others that a reloading manual or two is a must, before going any further.
As for crimping, I'm not a fan of it. If you size the neck to provide the correct "grip" on the bullet, a crimp in not needed. A good way to check for proper bullet grip is to measure (with the calipers you intend to get), the outside diameter of the sized neck of the brass without the bullet seated. Then measure the the neck after seating the bullet. After seating the bullet, the neck should be between .0015"-.0025" larger. That insures good bullet grip. Also, you could simply push your loaded round's tip against your load bench, or some other object, to insure the bullet will not push into the case easily.

[JimKirk]

Repeat
Just because a bullet has a cannelure, it does NOT mean it has to be crimped. A consist crimp is one of the hardest part of reloading, why introduce that inconsistency when you don't have to?

Jimmy K

[flashhole]

I bet I'm not the first one to call you Captain .... but Mr. Kirk makes a good point. Consistency is the name of the game in reloading. Everything matters and the challenge is to eliminate variables.

[Chamacat]

Welcome to reloading...I myself have just gotten into reloading..If it wasn't for the experienced here at thehighroad..I would have certainly looked at serious injury to myself and .300 Remington Ultra Mag...I ask alot of questions and everyone shoots straight..If anyone ever tells you to stop what you're doing cause whatever it is your doing wrong stop...It may have saved my face and eyes..I proud to be a member..