Remington 700p Out-of-the-box accuracy?


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LoneStarWings
December 26, 2009, 11:50 PM
Hi,

I'm considering getting a 700p in .308 for long range (500+ yard) shooting. It has a 26" barrel. I plan on putting a 20x or higher magnification scope on it.

Is 1 MOA out to 1000 yards with match ammo a reasonable expectation for this rifle, out of the box? Also, are there any concerns with quality control and reliability with late model remingtons?

I'm also looking at the savage 10fp, but am leaning toward the remington because it is so ubiquitous, which could be an advantage if I were to ever need spare parts.

Thanks,
LSW

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Horsemany
December 27, 2009, 12:27 AM
I had one I bought 1 1/2years ago. It shot amazingly well. It was my most accurate rifle(and I own a bunch of heavy barrel target rifles). I only handloaded for mine but it like everything I tried. It was typical for most bullets to be touching @ 100yds. I shot several groups in the .2's and .3's @100yds. The reason I sold it was the finish. It was the most awful beadblast I'd ever seen. I ordered the rifle and Remmy had just switched to a VERY course finish. It would shred an oil rag and even turn white from skin if you rubbed your hand across the barrel. It was fugly. I believe they've changed back to a smoother finish they way they always were. Not certain on that but my gunshop has a new one and I believe it's not course like mine was. If I bought another I'd expect a .5"-.75" gun. They shoot.

kyle1974
December 27, 2009, 12:36 AM
Hi,

I'm considering getting a 700p in .308 for long range (500+ yard) shooting. It has a 26" barrel. I plan on putting a 20x or higher magnification scope on it.

Is 1 MOA out to 1000 yards with match ammo a reasonable expectation for this rifle, out of the box? Also, are there any concerns with quality control and reliability with late model remingtons?

I'm also looking at the savage 10fp, but am leaning toward the remington because it is so ubiquitous, which could be an advantage if I were to ever need spare parts.

Thanks,
LSW


no, that is not a reasonable expectation...

1 MOA to 100 yards is very reasonable out of the box with factory ammo for that rifle... holding 1 MOA to 1000 yards.... not very likely

1000 yards is pushing the limit of the .308 anyway, to hold 1 MOA past 600 with an off the shelf rifle would be an exception to the rule.

The P rifles are "supposed" to have a little more quality control...."supposed to".... apparently, the 'P" designation is supposed to be so law enforcement agencies can purchse the rifles knowing they are getting a quality product... whether or not that is true, who knows. I have an LTR, which is under the remington LE rifle branding, and it does shoot very well. I don't think I would expect it to hold MOA to 1000 yards though.

as for the previous post... are you going to shoot it, or sleep with it? :D If I bought a rifle that consistently shot in the .2's, I think I'd pay a little to have it re finished before I sold it off...

Maverick223
December 27, 2009, 12:58 AM
I'm also looking at the savage 10fp, but am leaning toward the remington because it is so ubiquitousThere is an ever growing aftermarket for the Savage, and it is generally more accurate straight out of the box. Remington has been lowering QC standards in the last few years and it is beginning to show. The Savage model 10FP is an outstanding rifle at its price point, and comes standard with the Accu-Trigger/Stock.

:)

kyle1974
December 27, 2009, 01:08 AM
how do you know remington has been lowering QC standards?

are you privy to their engineering practices and standards?

as one of the largest recreational gun manufacturers, there are going to be failures. Savages are good rifles, but this remington slamming gets old...

a few photos circulate on the internet, and now the company is crap...

Maverick223
December 27, 2009, 01:43 AM
how do you know remington has been lowering QC standards?The ones that I have seen lately have had a poor quality fit and finish and they haven't had great out of box accuracy (but can be made to perform like a benchrest rifle if you want to sink your savings into one...all you need is a bbl, stock/chassis, and the action/bolt blueprinted and trued)...that tells me that either all the ones that I have seen were tampered with in the great conspiracy to make Big Green shrink or the QC has been suffering.

are you privy to their engineering practices and standards?Are you?

as one of the largest recreational gun manufacturers, there are going to be failures.That is fantastic...but they will have to do a bit better if they plan on expanding operations on my dime. The old Remington firearms exhibited good quality for a fair price...I don't believe that is the case any more.

Savages are good rifles, but this remington slamming gets old...It does doesn't it?...they need to get their ****** together and make a decent quality firearm so we can all shut up...or is everyone wrong and just conspiring to bring Remington down?

and now the company is crap...Now that I agree with...shame they had to turn from their heritage of making a fine working man's rifle isn't it?

:)

blitzen
December 27, 2009, 03:49 AM
I have a 700sps I bought a couple years ago. The only thing I did was drop it in a Bell and Carlson stock. No bedding or anything just drop in and tighten the screws. I've only shot it out to 575 yards but I'm pretty happy so far. I think 800 is about as far as I will go. If you want to shoot farther get something hotter.

Uncle Mike
December 27, 2009, 05:38 AM
Damn Mav......

I couldn't have said it any better! Spot on! lol

The truth will set you free...I'd go as far as to say that there isn't a one of us that would give the left one to see Remington shape up their quality and lower their ridiculously high prices!

Heart breaking as it may be, the truth is the truth, kyle! I have been in the firearms business approaching 29 years now, I have seen Savage when they were good, then when they started following the same road Remington is now...turning out junk, and then to their current position of producing excellent firearms.

Point is Remington has faltered as of late, those of use listening to the many complaints of our customers, doing repair after repair and steadily sending these rifles back to Remington for repair would love to see all this dry up!

No Remington bashing here....just fact and truth. None of us 'want' to see Remington spiral further down the rabbit hole, Alice....we would like for Remington to start producing like they did some years past, a superb, accurate and pretty rifle offered at a realistic price!

kyle1974
December 27, 2009, 06:42 AM
I guess last time I picked up a remington model 710 $300 rifle/scope combo package it was fairly poor quality.....:rolleyes:

I recently bought an LTR, and it has been the best shooting rifle (off the shelf) I've ever owned. I guess the finish isn't all that great. But seeing how I plan on shooting it

I'm not sure what rifles you guys are referring to that have a "poor fit"... they do make some price point junk these days, but their BDL/CDL, alaskan, sendero, "P" series etc... are good rifles.


Maverick... you made a claim referring to remington lowering their QC standards....a simple "no" would have sufficed if you're just taking a guess.

is there something specifically that you have seen? Or are you just going along with the "remington sucks" crowd? what kills me, is on sites like this to see the remington bashing.... then people talk about the value of a mosin or SKS..... yes. FINE rifles there!


anyone can say "from what I've seen".... tell me man..... what is it? with all this experience, you would think a few examples could be shared....

Rob96
December 27, 2009, 06:47 AM
I recently purchased a 700 ADL Varmint from Dick's in 308. Came with a crappy Remington scope. Had it to the range once. Using Remington 150gr Core Lokt ammo I was getting .69moa at 100yds.

RE-15
December 27, 2009, 07:41 AM
I like my rough parkerised finish. I use a lube brush to avoid the cotton lint and even then it comes right off once oil soaks in. My rifle has served me well 1moa out to 500 with handloads and it seems to perfer cheep Fed classic 150 gr at 100 yrd. My only complaint is the cheep junk metal they used for the trigger guard, action screws and floor plate. Am looking into replacing all. Why would remington do everthing else right and then use toy quality material on guard. I give this rifle 4 out of 5 stars.

Horsemany
December 27, 2009, 08:40 AM
they haven't had great out of box accuracy (but can be made to perform like a benchrest rifle if you want to sink your savings into one...all you need is a bbl, stock/chassis, and the action/bolt blueprinted and trued

Maverick223
This is not true with the 700 Police. I agree with you that fit and finish is not what it once was at Remington but the accuracy of recent purchases has been outstanding.

I spot for my local club's open to the public sight-in days the last 3 weekends before deer season. I sit at the bench and spot for 30 to 40 shooters per day. I see a wide range of different brands and how they perform from a bench @100yds. The Remington's still shoot as well as ever. Tikka, Browning, Remington and Savage are usually good shooters. If anyone has more experience watching hours of factory rifles being shot and has different data I'm all ears.

Maverick223
December 27, 2009, 11:27 AM
anyone can say "from what I've seen".... tell me man..... what is it?I have seen poor quality fit and finish on every Rem. that I have looked at lately. In addition to that I have seen several with broken extractors (and saw one break in person), and a couple people install Sako extractors in an attempt to fix the problem. I have also seen broken bolt handles, but have not witnessed one come off in person. I am no gunsmith or gun shop employee, but I have seen plenty of 700's come through the door at the gunsmith dept.

Maverick223
This is not true with the 700 Police.That is good to know, and I will say that their other variants (of the 700) are "hunting rifle accurate" but no where remotely close to tack drivers as they claim.

:)

kyle1974
December 27, 2009, 12:15 PM
I saw a $3000 custom 6.5 grendel AR at the range last week that couldn't hold a 3 inch group at 100 yards.

AR's are junk.

I've had always had good luck with remingtons since I bought my first one in 1990. I have some that are actually older than that I have bought used, and I have some as new as 6 months old.

with the exception of one (a varmit special in 22-250), they have all shot very well. The varmit special would shoot right around MOA, or slightly over, which for that type of rifle isn't really acceptable to me...so it was sold.

the LTR I bought a few months ago will shoot 1/2 MOA (only shot to 300 yards at targets to be measured so far) when I do my part. I have a hard time calling remington "junk" when they produce that kind of accuracy with a rifle that is under $1000.

but you keep saying "fit" and "finish".... I'm still not sure what you're talking about...

is it the crappy finish on the 710?

I was looking at one of the new sendero II's a couple weeks ago, and I didn't see a thing wrong with it...

as far as extractor's breaking, does remington have a new design these days, or is it the same? looking at the extractor on my LTR versus the extractor on my 7mm mag BDL from around 1990, I can't see any real difference other than minor dimension from the caliber.

Why would an extractor break in the first place? an empty piece of brass should basically fall out of the chamber, unless someone that is pushing the limits of a reload is stressing the casing, causing overpressure and deformation of the casing, putting too much stress (that shouldn't be occuring) onto the extractor. I had an extractor break on a firearm about 15 years ago... it was a mossberg 500 that I was shooting reloads out of. About 1 out of 10 shells stuck due to the brass being oversized, and ultimatley the extractor broke.... friggen junky mossbergs. I should have traveled the internet posting photos about something horrific happening to me....

looking at my winchesters versus the remington, it does look like the winchesters have a stronger (looking) extractor... but with around 1500 rounds through my 7mm mag, it's never been an issue.... with that 22-250 I sold I had around 2000 rounds through it before I sold it, and never had an issue...


I have seen the photos circulating of the "broken" bolt handles as well. The one in particular I saw, that I think is on here, is just a poor brazing job.... a one piece design would be stronger... putting bolts through through the handle makes it stronger, but at the end of the day, in the thousands of bolt handles that are brazed, things are going to happen. The thing is... that's the way those bolts have been made for how long? but remington is "junk".... I think whoever brazed the handle did a poor job, and probably didn't follow the QA/QC standards, but with a human error, how does that make remington junk?

I like ot think soetimes if we had internet access 100 years ago, how mnay things would be "junk"

Uncle Mike
December 27, 2009, 12:16 PM
I set up 3 Remingtons for customers just before Christmas, Christmas presents, a SPS Buckmaster in 7mmRem. Mag., a 770 in 270 and finally, a VTR in 308.

Mounted scopes, cleaned, inspected, torque all screws to specs., sight in...actual at 100y with customer specified brand, type and bullet ammunition.

Long story short, the 770 stacked em'...Federal Blue-Box Power-Shok 150gr SP LESS than 1MOA, consistent, 4/5shot groups, sand bagged.
the SPS Buckmaster was not so good, best groups were 1.5"@100y...Again, Federal ammo, Federal Vital-shok 150gr SGK. 4/5shot groups, sand bagged.
the VTR followed the 770, making 1 ragged hole at 100y you could cover with a quarter, not benchrest level, but by all means, good nuf', Federal ammo once again, I think it was Gold Medal 168gr SMK., 4/5shot groups @100y.

So 2 out of three aint bad!
Now next week we might shoot in 3 more Remingtons that you cant catch with a 5 gallon bucket, seems like you'll get a couple good ones, then a couple bad ones!

As for fit and finish, we just got some CDL's in, the wood to metal fit was excellent, finish was the same...but the stocks ranged from super dark to almost yellow, the finish makes the stocks look, almost plastic...yuk!

In comparison... the Savages that came in before Christmas looked great, both stocks and fit...IF you didn't look down the outside of the barrels in bright light...looked like the whoop section at the local motorcross track! And this was everyone of them! 14/114's American Classics. Somebody had way too much coffee that mourning. lol I mean the average customer doesn't even see this stuff, let alone look for it, but it is there.

I think they ALL have room for improvement.

Uncle Mike
December 27, 2009, 12:24 PM
I have a hard time calling remington "junk" when they produce that kind of accuracy with a rifle that is under $1000.

This exactly why we have to pay soooooo much for these Remingtons....do you really think a bolt gun is worth $1000? Come on now! A barrel screwed into an action, build a few, you'll see, $1000 for a 'production' rifle is absurd at the very least!

Remington has you thinking their way.....


Why would an extractor break in the first place? an empty piece of brass should basically fall out of the chamber, unless someone that is pushing the limits of a reload is stressing the casing, causing overpressure and deformation of the casing, putting too much stress (that shouldn't be occuring) onto the extractor.

exactly...there is NOTHING wrong with the Remington extractors!

I think whoever brazed the handle did a poor job, and probably didn't follow the QA/QC standards, but with a human error, how does that make remington junk?

Right again....and I am nobody, but after several hundred thousand brazed on bolt handles, 1 or 2 come loose...please!

kyle1974
December 27, 2009, 12:25 PM
Uncle Mike...

I think both rifle commpanies have top quality standards, machining, and design. But at the end of the day (like you said), it's up to a person to apply those practices, and sometimes it just doens't happen...

Also, since you deal with these guys... do either of them make any kind of written or unwritten guarantee about accuracy? I would think that if I bought a rifle and it shot 8 inch groups, there is an obvious problem, I'm just curious if any of them draw the line somewhere, and will back up their products when it comes to acuracy?


Hey as far as the pricing.... I'm thinking about buying a GAP.... remington is CHEAP!! :D

but seriously, on the pricing.... it is what it is... there are lots of things that aren't worth it, but the cost is still there. I guess guns are one of the "luxury" items, so they can pretty much hcarge what the market will bear. I don't have a problem with them making a profit. Now if they ask for a bailout.....

Uncle Mike
December 27, 2009, 12:37 PM
Also, since you deal with these guys... do either of them make any kind of written or unwritten guarantee about accuracy? I would think that if I bought a rifle and it shot 8 inch groups, there is an obvious problem, I'm just curious if any of them draw the line somewhere, and will back up their products when it comes to acuracy?

Your 100% correct... they make NO accuracy guarantee. You really can't offer a guarantee of this sort and be feasible.
Some manufacturers make a guarantee, but the guarantee's are predicated off of use of certain ammo, and some are broad, as to say 'match' quality ammo, and the definition of match quality ammo is left up to the manufacturer.

Point....Sub MOA Vanguard, customer, and us could not get this thing shooting under 2" on our 100y range, sent back to us after a trip to Weatherby with a letter, no target, saying the rifle shot to specifications with their match ammo....now, I don't know, but who makes match quality, production, 7mmRem.Mag. ammo?

Those accuracy guarantee's are worthless, just a selling point...unless they, like TC, specifies ammo you can actually get. Most rifle manufacturers are happy with 1.5"@100y groups!

I think it is the shoddy labor that is about today, and the laws protecting these shoddy workers. The unions may be dead, but you still have to continue to employ less the quality workmanship?

Art Eatman
December 27, 2009, 12:44 PM
This has certainly wandered way away from the OP...

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