[280PLUS]

1. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to noone.

2. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quicky ENOUGH.

3. Have a plan.

4. Have a backup plan, because the first one probably won't work.

5. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

6. Do not attend a gunfight with a hand gun whose caliber does not start with a 4.

7. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.

8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (lateral and diagonal movement is preferred.)

9. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

10. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

11. Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

12. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance or tactics. They will only remember who lived.

13. If you are not shooting you should be communicating and reloading.

14. Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it's empty.

15. And above all...don't drop your guard.

Navy Rules for Gunfighting

1. Go to sea.

2. Drink coffee.

3. Send the Marines.

Army Rules for Gunfighting

1. Select a new beret to wear.

2. Sew combat patch on right shoulder.

3. Reconsider the color of the beret you decide to wear.

4. Send the Marines.

U.S. Air Force Rules for Gunfighting

1. Have a cocktail.

2. Adjust temperature on air conditioner.

3. Determine "what is a gunfight."

4. Send the Marines

:D

from a friend.

can you guess what branch he belonged to?

[MaterDei]

can you guess what branch he belonged to? Yes, Department of the Navy. Says so right here...http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=587630

[DorGunR]

Ask the Marines who pulled their butts out of the Chosun reservoir when they were about to be wiped out by the Chinese.*


Answer..........part of the US Army 7th Inf. Div. (Bayonet Div)




US Army.............1950 - 1972.......have a nice day.;)



[* Racial epithet edited by Matt G.]

[Iain]

SAS rules for fighting:

1. Have some freezing fun on the Brecon Beacons and then get interrogated for 72 hrs - again, for fun.

2. Spend a week in tropical rainforest avoiding capture on a training exercise - for fun.

3. Capture yourself because you got bored of waiting.

5. Have a nice cup of tea with those ex-SEALS who couldn't catch you in the rainforest. Eat the mug because the ration packs taste worse.

6. Go to Siberia just to 'see what hypothermia is like.' Avoid capture by the ex-SEALS despite the hypothermia.

7. Tell the wife that you are off out for a while. Return a month later 40lbs lighter and with sand in your boots.

8. Deny having been involved in any major conflicts whilst serving in the British Army.

9. Oh and kick the USMC's ??? whenever possible.

;)

[RTFM]

Rules of Combat
USMC
01. Bring a weapon. Preferably, bring at least two. Bring all of your friends who have weapons. Bring their friends who have weapons.
02. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
03. Only hits count. Close doesn't count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
04. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough, nor using cover correctly.
05. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. (Lateral and diagonal movement are preferred.)
06. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a big weaponand a friend with a big weapon.
07. In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived and who didn't.
08. If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
09. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting is more dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the weapon.
10. Use a weapon that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an it rains in the flintlock of your musket."
11. Someday someone may kill you with your own weapon, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
12. In combat, there are no rules, always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
13. Have a plan.
14. Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
15.Use cover or concealment as much as possible. The visible target should be in FRONT of YOUR weapon.
16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
17. Don't drop your guard.
18. Always tactical load and threat scan 360 degrees.
19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. (In God we trust. Everyone else, keep your hands where I can see them).
20. Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
22. Be courteous to everyone, friendly to no one.
23. Be polite. Be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet.
24. Your number one Option for Personal Security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, and de-escalation.
25. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun, the caliber of which does not start with a ".4."

Army
01. See USMC Rules for combat
02. Add 60 to 90 days
03. Hope the Marines already destroyed all meaningful resistance

Navy
01. Spend three weeks getting somewhere
02. Adopt an aggressive offshore posture
03. Send in the Marines
04. Drink Coffee
05. Bring back the Marines

Air Force
01. Kiss the spouse good-bye
02. Drive to the flight line
03. Fly to target area, drop bombs, fly back.
04. Pop in at the club for a couple with the guys
05. Go home, BBQ some burgers and drink some more beer

[RTFM]

01. Friendly fire - isn't.
02. Recoilless rifles - aren't.
03. Suppressive fires - won't.
04. You are not Superman; Marines and fighter pilots take note.
05. A sucking chest wound is Nature's way of telling you to slow down.
06. If it's stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.
07. Try to look unimportant; the enemy may be low on ammo and not want to waste a bullet on you.
08. If at first you don't succeed, call in an airstrike.
09. If you are forward of your position, your artillery will fall short.
10. Never share a foxhole with anyone braver than yourself.
11. Never go to bed with anyone crazier than yourself.
12. Never forget that the lowest bidder made your weapon.
13. If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush.
14. The enemy diversion you're ignoring is their main attack.
15. The enemy invariably attacks on two occasions: When they’re ready or when you're not.
16. No OPLAN ever survives initial contact.
17. There is no such thing as a perfect plan.
18. Five-second fuzes always burn three seconds.
19. There is no such thing as an atheist in a foxhole.
20. A retreating enemy is probably just falling back and regrouping.
21. The important things are always simple; the simple are always hard.
22. The easy way is always mined.
23. Teamwork is essential; it gives the enemy other people to shoot at.
24. Don't look conspicuous; it draws fire. (For this reason, it is not surprising that aircraft carriers are sometimes called bomb magnets.)
25. Never draw fire; it irritates everyone around you.
26. If you are short of everything but the enemy, you are in the combat zone.
27. When you have secured the area, make sure the enemy knows it too.
28. Incoming fire has the right of way.
29. No combat ready unit has ever passed inspection.
30. No inspection ready unit has ever passed combat.
31. If the enemy is within range, so are you.
32. The only thing more accurate than incoming enemy fire is incoming friendly fire.
33. Things that must be shipped together as a set, aren't.
34. Things that must be together in order to work, can't be shipped to the field that way.
35. Radios will fail as soon as you need fire support. (Corollary: Radar tends to fail at night and in bad weather, and especially during both.)
36. Anything you do can get you killed, including doing nothing.
37. Make it too tough for the enemy to get in, and you won't be able to get out.
38. Tracers work both ways.
39. If you take more than your fair share of objectives, you will get more than your fair share of objectives to take.
40. When both sides are convinced they're about to lose, they're both right.
41. Professional soldiers are predictable; the world is full of dangerous amateurs.
42. Military Intelligence is an oxymoron.
43. Fortify only your front, you’ll get your rear shot up.
44. Weather ain't neutral.
45. If you can't remember, the Claymore is pointed towards you.
46. Air defense motto: shoot 'em down; sort 'em out on the ground.
47. 'Flies high, it dies; low and slow, it'll go.
48. The Cavalry doesn't always come to the rescue.
49. Napalm is an area support weapon.
50. Mines are equal opportunity weapons.
51. Sniper's motto: reach out and touch someone.
52. The one item you need is always in short supply.
53. Interchangeable parts aren't.
54. It's not the one with your name on it that should worry you; it's the one addressed "to whom it may concern" you've got to think about.
55. When in doubt, empty your magazine.
56. The side with the simplest uniforms wins.
57. Combat will occur on the ground between two adjoining maps.
58. If the Platoon Sergeant can see you, so can the enemy.
59. Never stand when you can sit, never sit when you can lie down, never stay awake when you can sleep.
60. The most dangerous thing in the world is a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass.
61. Exceptions prove the rule, and destroy the battle plan.
62. Everything always works in your HQ; everything always fails in the Colonel's HQ.
63. The enemy never watches until you make a mistake.
64. One enemy soldier is never enough, but two is entirely too many.
65. A clean (and dry) set of BDU's is a magnet for mud and rain.
66. The worse the weather, the more you are required to be out in it.
67. Whenever you have plenty of ammo, you never miss. Whenever you are low on ammo, you can't hit the broad side of a barn.
68. The more a weapon costs, the farther you will have to send it away to be repaired.
69. The complexity of a weapon is inversely proportional to the IQ of the weapon's operator.
70. Field experience is something you don't get until just after you need it.
71. No matter which way you have to march, its always uphill.
72. If enough data is collected, a board of inquiry can prove anything.
73. For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. (in boot camp)
74. Airstrikes always overshoot the target, artillery always falls short.
75. When reviewing the radio frequencies that you just wrote down, the most important ones are always illegible.
76. Those who hesitate under fire usually do not end up KIA or WIA.
77. The tough part about being an officer is that the troops don't know what they want, but they know for certain what they don't want.
78. To steal information from a person is called plagiarism. To steal information from the enemy is called gathering intelligence.
79. The weapon that usually jams when you need it the most is the M60.
80. The perfect officer for the job will transfer in the day after someone else fills that billet.
81. When you have sufficient supplies & ammo, the enemy takes 2 weeks to attack. When you are low on supplies & ammo the enemy decides to attack that night.
82. The newest and least experienced soldier will usually win the Medal of Honor.
83. A Purple Heart just proves that were you smart enough to think of a plan, stupid enough to try it, and lucky enough to survive.
84. Body count Math: 3 guerrillas plus 1 probable plus 2 pigs equals 37 enemies killed in action.
85. The bursting radius of a hand grenade is always one foot greater than your jumping range.
86. All-weather close air support isn't.
87. The combat worth of a unit is inversely proportional to the smartness of its outfit and appearance.
88. It's easier to expend material in combat than to fill out the forms for Graves Registration.
89. Cluster bombing from B-52s is very, very accurate -- the bombs always hit the ground.
90. The crucial round is a dud.
91. Every command that can be misunderstood will be.
92. There is no such place as a convenient foxhole.
93. Don't ever be the first, don't ever be the last and don't ever volunteer to do anything.
94. If your positions are firmly set and you are prepared for the enemy’s assault, he will bypass you.
95. If your ambush is properly set, the enemy won't walk into it.
96. If your flank march is going well, the enemy expects you to outflank him.
97. Density of fire increases proportionally to the curiousness of the target.
98. Odd objects attract fire - never lurk behind one.
99. The more stupid the leader is, the more important the missions he is ordered to carry out.
100. The self-importance of a superior is inversely proportional to his position in the hierarchy (as is his deviousness and mischievousness).
101. There is always a way, and it usually doesn't work.
102. Success occurs when no one is looking, failure occurs when the General is watching.
103. The enemy never monitors your radio frequency until you broadcast on an unsecured channel.
104. Whenever you drop your equipment in a firefight, your ammo and grenades always fall the farthest away, and your canteen always lands at your feet.
105. As soon as you are served hot chow in the field, it rains.
106. Never tell the Platoon Sergeant you have nothing to do.
107. The seriousness of a wound (in a firefight) is inversely proportional to the distance to any form of cover.
108. Your bivouac for the night is the spot where you got tired of marching that day.
109. If you all agree to the solution for a field problem, then it is usually a stupid solution.
110. All or any of the above can be combined.
111. Murphy was a grunt.

[HankB]

Marine fighting strategy:

1. Lock and load.
2. Fix bayonets.
3. Charge.
4. 40% casualties are acceptable if you win.
5. Protect the press officer at all costs.
6. Beat up anyone who repeats the ditty "Those mighty fighting Leathernecks, where ever they may go, they're always bringing up the rear, with Bob Hope and the USO."

Army fighting strategy:

1. Time on target. Reapply as necessary.
2. Mop up.
3. Go home.


Air Force fighting strategy:

1. Drop bombs.
2. Stir up rubble by bombing again.
3. Send in Army to mop up.


Navy fighting strategy:

1. Drop bombs and shoot missles.
2. Remember that, when hit, your airfields don't merely crater - they sink.

[Deepdiver]

Actually, 280, you cited a very old version of the Navy's Fighting Rules.

Here is an updated version from my tenure:

1. Go to sea
2. Make coffee
3. Man battlestations
4. Proceed to launch depth
5. Go to 1SQ - Spin up all missiles
6. Launch all missiles
7. a. Secure from battlestations
b. Go deep (while drinking coffee)
c Light the Smoking Lamp

Much later: Send in Marines (when radiation levels permit) to survey the new 100 square mile fused silicon (sand does some nifty things when the proper amount of heat is applied) skate board park.


....works ever better than napalm:D !!

DEEP FAST SILENT DEADLY

[striker3]

can you guess what branch he belonged to?

Yes, Department of the Navy. Says so right here...

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=587630

THE MENS DEPARTMENT

[GySgt]

Thank You Striker3 !!

You saved me having to say it.

And in response to DorGunR.....

It was Chesty Puller and his Marines who set the pace at Chosin....not the Army. If you were there, you have my respect, but let's be honest.....The Army abandoned their functioning weapons (including crew served) and left their dead where they fell. The Marines carried ALL theirs out and destroyed any weapons they couldn't move, as they fought their way South. It's ok to have pride in your outfit, but it's not a good idea to get carried away by it. Completely surrounded, Chesty remarked to the press that the Marines had the Communists right where they wanted them, as they could shoot in any direction and kill the SOB's :D

Semper Fi, GySgt

[Deep Blue]

Deepdiver,

I too remember the joys of 1SQ. It would seem we share a common expierience.

[Hkmp5sd]

1. Win
2. See #1.

[RocketMan]

Ah, yes, the Marines are part of the Department of the Navy.

That just makes the Navy a lower form of Marine life.

SQUIDS!

Semper Fi

[280PLUS]

good stuff,,,

all i think is missing is that age old greeting exchanged between sailors and marines

it goes,,,

"Hi there, if you don't call me a squid, i won't call you a JARHEAD!!"

:D

you know,,,i used to head up to some marine base north of san diego and barhop the area around the base,

i want to say pendelton but memory fails me,,,

even though i was a sailor and they all knew it i had a better time partying with them than i ever did with most sailors, never a bit of rivalry,,,

them boys knew how to have a good time!

m

yes, the saddest thing for a marine to grasp is that he or she works for the secretary of the NAVY!!

:neener:

[Deepdiver]

Deep Blue:

PM Sent!

[dzrtram]

I find 280's remarks extremely offensive. I see no humor in it, especially at this time when U.S. Army soldiers are dying in Iraq where the army has done the vast majority of the work, and also in Afghanistan. While the army stays and fights, the marines go home and brag about how tough they are. Those weren't marines who jumped out of airplanes in the mountains of Afghanistan, and those aren't marines dying in Iraq right now, even as we write these ignorant messages.
I'd like to take you to Pont-du-hoc and let you stand in front of the graves of the army Rangers who scaled the cliffs in a seaborne invasion the like of which the marines have never seen. I'd like to walk you through the halls of the museum at West Point where my son was a cadet, and show you the record of the beachheads of the army. Yes, our army who made more beach landings than the marines in WWII.
Then we can go to the graves at numerous civil war cemeteries where SOLDIERS, not marines are buried.....SOLDIERS, on both sides, who fought and died while what few marines existed sailed around on ships. Then we can examine the history of the leaders of the armies of both sides, nearly all West Point graduates.
After that, we'll tour the battlefields of the frontier wars and read the history of the U.S. ARMY CAVALRY and all the other units who fought and died protecting settlers and pioneers.
If that doesn't wake you up, we'll take a little trip to Fort Benning and Fort Bragg and you can tell the Rangers, the 101st and 82nd airborne, Special Forces and Delta force how tough you are.
And last, but not least, we'll find the marine officer, who, with 3 battalions of marines couldn't beat one battalion of General Schwarzkopf's soldiers training in the deserts of California.
You see, my friend, Hollywood notwithstanding, the U.S. ARMY built this country, NOT the USMC. Soldiers like Sgt. Alvin York, Audie Murphy, Generals Patton, Eisenhower, Grant, and hundreds of other U.S. ARMY heros.
Yes, you are right, I have no sense of humor. I don't see the humor, and I'll bet you anything you want to bet the families of all those soldiers who have died in Iraq and are on their home to be buried won't see anything funny about it either.:cuss: :fire: :neener:

[Mark Tyson]

dzrtram, chill out. A little ribbing between services is perfectly okay. Marines did participate in the initial Afghanistan operations, siezing the Bagram airport for the army to use as a launching point for future operations. Special ops components continue to fight in both theaters. And furthermore:

Marines Returning To Iraq
Associated Press
November 6, 2003

WASHINGTON - The Marine Corps, which played a central role in toppling Saddam Hussein last spring, will return to Iraq as part of a U.S. troop rotation approved by Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld on Wednesday, officials said.

Since the Marines' departure from Iraq in September, the military effort to stabilize and rebuild Iraq has fallen almost entirely to the Army, plus multinational units led by Britain and Poland.

The 13th Marine Expeditionary Unit recently began anti-smuggling operations in the Persian Gulf coastal area in southern Iraq. But no Marines have been doing stability operations, such as working with Iraqi civilians on rebuilding projects or hunting for fugitives loyal to Saddam, since the 1st Marine Expeditionary Force departed south-central Iraq in September.

Also included in the next U.S. rotation will be thousands of newly mobilized National Guard and Reserve troops as well as active duty Army units such as the 1st Cavalry Division from Fort Hood, Texas, and the 1st Infantry Division in Germany, according to officials who discussed the matter on condition of anonymity.

No National Guard combat brigades will be called on, beyond the three already mobilized from North Carolina, Arkansas and Washington state to prepare for deployment to Iraq next year. The extra Guard and Reserve troops to be mobilized will be combat support forces such as military police.

Instead of relying almost exclusively on the Army to provide reserve forces for support, the Pentagon intends to mobilize specialists from the reserve components of the Air Force and Navy, too.

On Capitol Hill, Gen. Peter Pace, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said troop orders were being issued Wednesday and Pentagon officials planned to publicly release details on Thursday.

Pace said members of Congress were being briefed on the plan Wednesday. He declined to give reporters details.

Pace said that by May the Pentagon expects to have just over 100,000 U.S. troops in Iraq, a drop of 30,000 from present levels. The Pentagon also hopes to have about 170,000 Iraqi security forces by then - compared with about 100,000 now - and two multinational divisions of about 12,000 each.

The Pentagon has struggled to set the troop rotation for 2004 because of the Bush administration's inability so far to persuade its international partners to contribute significant troops. Turkey had offered to send thousands but has balked in the face of Iraqi political opposition.

The Army has shouldered most of the burden of attempting to stabilize Iraq. It has been stretched thin by multiple overseas commitments, including anti-terrorism efforts Afghanistan as well as Iraq.

The first major Army unit to be replaced in Iraq next year is the 101st Airborne Division, which played an important role in the march to Baghdad and has operated mainly in northern Iraq since then.

When the Army announced in July an outline for the next troop rotation, it said the 101st would be replaced by a multinational division to be identified later. Because that international force has not materialized, the Pentagon has been forced to call on other U.S. forces to fill the gap.

It appears the Pentagon will replace the 101st with a smaller group of forces, in part because the area in which it operated - northern Iraq - has been relatively stable and peaceful.

Some units that will return home in the next rotation will not be replaced. This includes a brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division, as well as the 173rd Airborne Brigade. As a result, the total number of U.S. troops in Iraq is likely to fall to near the 100,000 mark next spring. That compares with about 130,000 there now.

Also coming home in the next rotation will be the 4th Infantry Division from Fort Hood, Texas, and the 1st Armored Division from Germany.

[striker3]

I'm sorry that you feel this way.

I can also point out a lot of history that you have left out.

5000 casualties in the invasion of Tarawa, caused by having to cross 500 yards of reef before they reached the beach.

WWII Island hopping campaign with an enemy who believed that surrender was weakness, whether for themselves or their enemies. And that the weak should be purged.

Korea, where the Marines made their withdrawl in an orderly fashion, salvaging or destroying the equipment that the Army left behind.

Over 7000 POWs in the Korean war, less than 500 of them Marines.

"Peacetime" operations ranging from fighting the Barbary pirates to the Boxer Rebellion, Hatti multiple times, Nicaragua multiple times, Guarding Mail routes, Grenada, Somolia, Kosovo and a lot more.

Why did the German Army in WWI decide that Marines were shock troops?

Why is the Army trying to adopt USMC training?

Why does a wounded soldier say on national tv that he can't wait to get home, when a wounded Marine says that he cannot wait to get back in the fight?

I do not post this in an attempt to get in a pissing contest over who has the better service, BUT DO NOT EVER state that our reputations are over-inflated. We have bleed to make the name US Marine feared through out the world.

I've never said that the Army is not an effective force for their role. Their role is to be an Army, which is the mission that they are carrying out now. The Marine Corps' role is to be a light-weight, quick deployable force that can go in, get the job done, then get out in 30 days or less, so the President does not need to get congressional approval. We are highly mobile, a "force in readiness", always prepared to go where the fighting is hottest, always willing to stand in the gap.

I have never been in a room, where 2 services were represented, and a rivalry was not started. It is the nature of a warrior. Competitive and overbearing. These characteristics make winners. It is what should be sought after for our Armed Forces.

[DorGunR]

dzrtram I'm gonna have to agree with striker3 on this one.

What are my qualifications???? US Army 1950 - 1972........with 3 years in combat and BTW my son also went to West Point.
I wasn't offended by what's been posted......I saw a lot of humor in it....but then I'm also an ex GI.:)

[dzrtram]

Striker3, you are correct in saying that an army is an army and a corp is a corp. Never, at any time, can an army of large size be elite. Thanks to the Democrats, as usual, the army was in very bad shape when Korea broke out. You can't keep an army "honed" like you can a "corp". You can't compare an average marine to and average soldier because there is no such thing as an "average" soldier. Not all soldiers are combat trained. As far as over-inflated reputations goes, I'm sorry that is the case. Let me just say that I have lived among marines for 62 years. My oldest son left the army as a sgt. to go to college. I was in the marine reserves. I KNOW the marine corps. My oldest son was in the corps 6 years. Never, at any time, did he receive the training the marine corps is "famous" for, and neither do the majority of marines. There is a huge amount of hype to the marine corps. Kandahar, in Afghanistan, is a case in point, where the marines arrive, long after the army and air force have done the worst of the work, with their press corps they are never far from, and the press concentrates on them. It doesn't sound like it from what I've said here, but I love the marine corps. It has been a part of my life for longer than most people on this site have been alive. What I hate is the hype and bull????. If every marine were trained as they say they are, you would have to compare them to Army Rangers, a bad comparison for the "average" marine. Rangers are what Marines want everyone to think they are. In 62 years living among Marines I have personally known ONE marine to have the comparable training of a Ranger or Special Forces soldier, and he got most of that training in army schools. That doesn't mean there aren't more marines trained as well as the elite army units. It just means that those that are "equal" are mostly Force Recon, and have mostly attended army schools. A career Marine I know, who made it to Sergeant Major, and was for years in Force Recon, went to U.S. Army Special Forces schools, i.e. the goat farm. He was NOT, by his own admission, allowed to take the full course.
Concerning the battles in the Pacific: It would take several of those battles combined for the marines involved to equal the time involved in Normandy to the Battle of the Bulge, as my uncle, and every other soldier did. The marines, as witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan, hit a beach head or fight a battle and go back to rest, or go home, as in Iraq and Afghanistan. The army, as witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan, stays to do the dirty work.
No, you cannot compare an army of draftees, or of much larger size to a corps. The marine corps reminds me of the runt with the "Little Man Syndrome". Small body, but BIG mouth. HOWEVER, I do understand. With the rapid deployment forces of the army, the marine corps no longer plays the so-called "First to fight" role, and it annoys them. They have to fight for a larger budget and for respect with the Department of Defense and Congress. They have to fight for everything they get, and often have to take whatever equipment the army designs, orders, or mandates. Therefore, they have to keep themselves in the lime light. Very much understood. BUT, only the marine corps bad mouths other services, even in their "hymn". That I don't like. They are not the first to fight, and rarely have been, as I show in my first post. The Marine Corps, except for their part in WWI, was just a small group of sea sick sea soldiers until about 1933 when General LeJune organized the modern Marine Corps. Nothing bad about that. Just setting the record straight. The Marine Corps played a very small part in the American Revolution, the Civil War, WWI, Afghanistan, and Iraq. That's just plain history, not opinion.
I'm not sure of the purpose of the message previous to yours, that includes the press ariticle about the marine corps in Iraq. It clearly illustrates my point. After enough soldiers have died, our govt. figures it's about time the corps earns it's keep. Yes, things will be better off when the corps gets there. They will also be better off when the Koreans, Japanese, or anyone else gets there. God knows someone needs to help them. They are spread awfully thin, and they are not trained for the job they are doing.
The United States Marine Corps is America's elite combat corps, no arguement, BUT, it takes an army to build and defend a nation, and those soldiers that died doing that need some respect.

[Tierhog]

Sounds like a 10%er to me...:rolleyes:

[dzrtram]

Dorgunr,
Normally I would agree with you, but not at this time, in the situation this country is in. I can't tell you what it does to me to read about the death of another soldier in Iraq, and knowing that this has NO end.
I'll tell you a little story about how much respect I have for the Marine Corps (just not their mouths).
A few months back a Vietnam veteran friend of ours invited us to go with him to the Marine Corps bar, clubhouse, or whatever, after a day of shooting at a gun range, which was next door to the the Marine club. None of us drink much, but we had a drink of some kind. My son, the one who attended West Point, was sitting to my left. Our Marine friend was sitting to my right. There was a retired Marine Col. there who is a Vietnam vet, and just one heckuva nice guy. He's the kind of guy who has a million jokes and is the life of the party. The Col. is fairly small. My son is HUGE. He was recruited to West Point to play football. The Marine Col. came over to us to tell us a joke. My son stood up and walked over to join in and hear the joke. The col. took one look at my son and said, "He's huge. Is he your bodyguard? He was talking to our other marine friend who responded, "He's everybody's bodyguard". After the joke the col. asked if any of us in our group had ever been in the military. I pointed to my son and the col. asked him his background. My son told him West Point, and the Col. about dropped his teeth. He said "Really". My son said "What's the difference (diplomatically), I wasn't a Marine." The col. ignored that, patted my son on the shoulder and asked all kinds of questions. So, we had our little group of soldiers and Marines having just one of the best afternoons ever. The moral of the story is that not one Marine in that whole place said one thing about the Marine Corps being better than the army, or anything detracting from the situation. In other words, no loud mouthed, braggadocio, insulting Marines. Just absolutely wonderful representative of the UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS, which, believe it or not, I love and respect. My offense is that this is not the time, as some messages above have done, to say negative things about the army that built this country.
So Semper Fi to the good guys, and "Screw You" to the insulting loud mouths, of which there are probably none here.:)

[dzrtram]

DorGunr,
I do over react to that kind of stuff. I shouldn't, but I live in Marine country and hear bad mouthing of the other services endlessly, and it's not done in humor. They mean it. This was probably entirely humor, and I also meant no offense, I'm just tired of it. It gets really old when you hear it all the time.
No offense meant to anyone. Let's let go of it now.

[Bruce H]

Any way you go about it RTFM nailed this one cold.

[DorGunR]

Bruce H posted,,,,,,Any way you go about it RTFM nailed this one cold.

That's an affirmative......over.:D :D

[280PLUS]

sorry if i ruffled any feathers but you're talking about a good natured ribbing between services

i'm a navy vet and i thought it was quite funny, even though the navy gets it too,,,you forgot to mention oh, say,,,pearl harbor e.g. or a little ship known as the USS Cole

i don't need anyone to tell me that men and women in ALL branches of the armed forces have made the ultimate sacrifice for this country and are still willing to do so today

as for pont du hoc,,,i happened to have worked (20 years or so ago) for an ex 5th ranger who actually climbed those cliffs and survived, there wasn't many of those,,, i think 300 out of 3000 or was it 600 out of 6000, i don't remember

10%,,,THAT i remember

through his tales i could tell you stories of that climb you'll never find anywhere else,

i know plenty enough about pont du hoc - first hand info straight from someone who was there and i have always had great respect for this man, rest assured, and he had respect for me and the fact that i was a vet also, he didn't care if i was navy,,,a vet is a vet, to ALL vets.

some of the lessons i learned from him still guide my actions today

in my family i have (had) a WWII army vet who fought in places like new guinea, would never talk about it, hated the japanese till his dying day

a step grandad Navy vet that also fought the japanese in the pacific

another army vet that served during the korean occupation but not in country,

ANOTHER army vet who served in nam and earned at least 2 bronze stars, that i know of,

myself a 5 year navy vet who did 2 - 9 month tours in the western and southern pacific and sweat his butt off in the engineroom of a destroyer in and around places like the equator

now MY son will be heading off to Air force boot camp april 13th, last i heard

thats 5 vets with another on the way and soon 5 consecutive generations of my family will have served this country proudly in uniform, both in peace and wartime.

my great grandfather (an Italian immigrant) allowed a spanish american war KIA to be buried in our family plot

and darned if me and my uncles don't find time to bust each others chops over which branch is "the best"

so i think, if my ex Marine Lt viet nam vet friend wants to send me a little yay rah rah Marines type JOKE and poke a little fun at the other services he is more than welcome to do so and i'm happy to post it here for those that can appreciate it.

so the best i can say in this situation is "lighten up francis"

other than that,,,have a nice day...

;)

[XLMiguel]

MARINE = MY A$$ Rides In Navy Equipment

With sincere condolences & tongue deeply in cheek to Squids & Jarheads alike from an old Leg who wishes both of 'em still worked right.

We all salute the same flag, right?:D

BTW, no Marine goes thirsty around my house, thx for loking out for my uncle in Tehran (`79-80`) and my nephew in Bagdad in '90.

[fivepaknh]

I’m with you 110% on this. I understand there’ll always be inter-service rivalry, but the Marines always seem to take it a step further. They’ve made disrespecting other services a way of life.

[280PLUS]

that theres always somebody that just doesn't get it,,,

:rolleyes:

booo, bad Marines,,,stop picking on the other services:cuss:

:neener:

oo,,oo,,i know, how about some ribbing aimed at the marines

eg.

do you know how the term "dumb jarhead" came about?

well, back in the days of wooden ships (supposedly) if you were over 6" tall you became a Marine, any shorter and you were made a sailor, well, due to the fact that they were so tall Marines were always banging their heads on something on the ship and hence the word "jarhead" because they were always "jarring" their heads.

(now thats straight from the boys on board a little ship called the USS Constitution)

the word "dumb" was later added when it became obvious that Marines were too DUMB to DUCK!

ok??

everybody feel better now??

:evil:

[Bruce H]

Couple of the above must be Coast Guard.

[280PLUS]

"Couple of the above must be Coast Guard."

uh ohhh, now the worms are REALLY starting to get out of the can...

:p

[ninjaj448]

Anyone who is or has been in any branch of the U.S. military has our respect...and can expect the inter-service ribbings just as we do. After all we have to be fair...not everyone can be a Marine!

[280PLUS]

i want to thank rtfm for the long comprehensive list he put up for us,,,

i dont want his efforts to be overshadowed, i personally appreciate it

i had 2 reasons for posting this thread

1. the first part had valuable advice tucked in there, regardless of who or what branch claims credit for it.

2. cause i thought the rest was a good laugh

i disrespect noone, active duty,,,vet

or those who have never served

:)

[Mark Tyson]

hey’ve made disrespecting other services a way of life.

Excuse me, but everybody engages in "my team's better than you're team". Everybody. By the way, the coast guard does a lot of hazardous real world ops too.

[280PLUS]

time to change nomex undies,,,cause here we go again!!

:what:

youknow,,,i HAVE been wondering where the coast guard has been through all this,,,

here they are now,,,

:D

[DorGunR]

Do you know why you must be over 6 feet tall to join the Coast Guard???


Because if your boat sinks, you can wade ashore. :uhoh: ;)

[Mark Tyson]

For the record, I'm not in the coast guard; I was in the army.

This is for you, 280plus:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=589852

[DorGunR]

I was also in the Army, but I want to post this in honor of the Marines 228 birthday......................HAPPY BIRTHDAY......JARHEADS.:D

10 November 2003
A MESSAGE FROM THE COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS

This year we celebrate the 228th anniversary of the founding of our Corps. As always, it is an occasion for remembrance, proud traditions, and joyful camaraderie. The events of the past year have called for great sacrifices from many Marines and their families. While the Global War on Terrorism will continue to demand the best from each of us, it is important that we join with our fellow Marines, families and friends to celebrate our Corps' special culture and unique warrior ethos.

This past year, Marines demonstrated once again that they are the most important entity on any battlefield. Lethal weapons and advanced technologies provide us unique advantages, but educated warriors ultimately determine victory in combat not machines. During Operations IRAQI FREEDOM and ENDURING FREEDOM, our small unit leaders' skills, adaptability and flexibility produced victory on uncertain and at times chaotic battlefields. We proved once again the power of integrated ground-air-logistics teams as well as the importance of every Marine being first and foremost a rifleman.

Our special spirit is evident not only in battle; it is evident in the faithful performance of demanding duties by countless Marines at home and abroad. Every Marine makes a vital contribution to the ability of our Corps to project and sustain credible combat power. Moreover, the willingness and readiness of all Marines to accept and accomplish any mission is central to our success and a hallmark of our warrior ethos.

The culture that defines the Marine Corps is nurtured by our traditions. In celebrating our heritage, we strengthen the linkages to a glorious history and recommit ourselves to upholding the standards and values given to us by past generations.

In commemorating our 228th anniversary, remain true to the spirit of the occasion. Reflect on our fallen with deep respect, observe our traditions with justifiable pride, take care of one another, and of course, celebrate those special bonds that exist among United States Marines.

Happy Birthday Marines, Semper Fidelis, and keep attacking!

M. W. Hagee
General, U.S. Marine Corps

[GySgt]

I’m with you 110% on this. I understand there’ll always be inter-service rivalry, but the Marines always seem to take it a step further. They’ve made disrespecting other services a way of life.
fivepaknh....Sounds to me like a Marine got the best of you somehow and you still have a chip on your shoulder about it. Let it go man, let it go :):)

And DorDunR.....Thanks for the Birthday wish!!! Y'all lock up your wives and daughters Monday, 'cause the real men are coming out to play !!! :)

Semper Fi, GySgt

[280PLUS]

i'm running for the marsmallows now!!

so far the nomex is holding up,,,

anyone need a cold one? soda, coffee?

wine cooler?:barf:

if you need something with a little more kick, just let me know,,, :D

thats what i want to see,,,ermey toast a marshmallow with a flame thrower,,,

:evil:

[GySgt]

Hey, while we're on this amusing subject....I saw a really funny set of definitions a few years back about our Armed Services and their ways of handling the order to "Secure a building" Does anyone have access to that and if you do, could you post it? It was hilarious and picked on my Beloved Corps as much, if not more than the other Services.

Thanks, GySgt

[Teufelhunden]

Ask the Marines who pulled their butts out of the Chosun reservoir when they were about to be wiped out by the Chinks.

It was Chesty Puller and his Marines who set the pace at Chosin....not the Army. If you were there, you have my respect, but let's be honest.....The Army abandoned their functioning weapons (including crew served) and left their dead where they fell. The Marines carried ALL theirs out and destroyed any weapons they couldn't move, as they fought their way South. It's ok to have pride in your outfit, but it's not a good idea to get carried away by it. Completely surrounded, Chesty remarked to the press that the Marines had the Communists right where they wanted them, as they could shoot in any direction and kill the SOB's

Thanks for getting that fixed before I got to it Gunny...


dzrtram I find 280's remarks extremely offensive. I see no humor in it, especially at this time when U.S. Army soldiers are dying in Iraq where the army has done the vast majority of the work, and also in Afghanistan. While the army stays and fights, the marines go home and brag about how tough they are. Those weren't marines who jumped out of airplanes in the mountains of Afghanistan, and those aren't marines dying in Iraq right now, even as we write these ignorant messages.

Different missions, different branches dzr. As you would know given your service, my Marine Corps is not a sustainment force. We are neither equipped nor trained to occupy an area we've taken and 'win the hearts and minds'. Everytime some idiot tries to make us an occupation force, bad things happen. You see, as a result of our overly agressive nature, Marines have a bad tendency to kill a lot of people, even when we're just supposed to be feeding them. It's something weird about us dumb Marines; we just can't get our limited mental facilities wrapped around the concept of not returning fire or not firing upon someone who aims a weapon at us simply because we've been told we're in a 'secured' area. See previous references to Somalia...

As a result of this behavior, the natives have a hard time letting their hearts and minds be won. Putting the Army in place, which has many many more soldiers, and many many more tanks, and many many more 5-tons carrying rice in place simply makes sense, and that has been their declared role after many offensive actions.

If you continue to insist that there is simply no difference between the Army and my Marine Corps, I would ask you why all the 'Big Arrows'™ on battle maps found here (USA Today flash map) (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/_common/_images/iraqwarmap/flash.htm) and here (global security.org) (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraqi_freedom-ops-maps.htm) seem to have the bulk of the Army racing PAST all the fighting to get to Baghdad (The Big Prize) while the Marines and Brits get left to capture pretty much everything along the way (places such as Umm Qasr, Basrah, Nasiriyah, Amarah, Kut) to Baghdad.

I'm not saying soldiers are worthless--they're simply not Marines. Give me a soldier and a Marine with the exact same schools in their SRB's, and I'll still take the Marine at my side. The reason is simple: The Army doesn't teach it's soldiers to love the Army and believe that they are the most destructive force on Earth. The Marines do. Sure, some of it is hubris, but that mindset is what allows Marines to win, not their technical knowledge. As was discussed in a nother thread recently, the Army is starting to realise that training non-infantry soldiers to consider themselves technicians before fighters is a bad idea. The Marine Corps has stuck with its 'Every Marine a rifleman' method, and it has paid off.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. History and the world have passed their judgement on our armed forces, and they have been determined to be the best in existance. Bickering over who does mission 'X' the best is a waste of time since mission 'X' has always been a Marine role, and misssion 'Z' an Army one. You might as well compare the Army and the Navy.

-Teuf

[Teufelhunden]

Hey, while we're on this amusing subject....I saw a really funny set of definitions a few years back about our Armed Services and their ways of handling the order to "Secure a building" Does anyone have access to that and if you do, could you post it? It was hilarious and picked on my Beloved Corps as much, if not more than the other Services.

This is the only one I've got Gunny:

To secure a building:

To the Marines, attack and destroy it;
To the Army means seize and protect it;
To the Navy, turn off the lights and lock the door;
To the Air Force, sign a three-year lease with option to buy.

Semper Fi.

-Teuf

[Deepdiver]

Like Mike in VA said, - I always enjoy the rivalry between the services, because I know that during a sh$%storm, they always stand together.

No reason to get your undies in a bunch over a few jibes.

no Marine goes thirsty around my house

same holds true in my house, and, despite the Navy traditions in my family, I might even let my daughter marry a Marine (except she is dating an USAF officer - just to piss me off, I think):D !!

[OEF_VET]

US ARMY - Uncle Sam Ain't Released Me Yet

YMRA SU - Yes, My Retarded A$$ Signed Up

USAF - yoU Sure Are Foolish

NAVY - Never Again Volunteer Yourself

USMC - Uncle Sam's Misguided Children

MARINE - My A$$ Rides In Navy Equipment
or
MARINE - My A$$ Really Is Navy Equipment

All joking aside, no matter what branch of service a person was in, they served, and that's all that matters to me. Obviously there will always be inter-service rivalry, but we all understand there isn't really any harm meant in it, it's just our way of messing with each other.

Also, Monday may be the Corps' birthday, but remember, Tuesday is Veterans Day. To all my fellow vets, Thank You one and all for your service. To all you non-veterans, find a vet and thank him or her this Tuesday. If not for them, you wouldn't be enjoying the way of life you do enjoy.

Frank

P.S. I always thought the job of the Coast Guard was to ferry sailors back and forth between their ships and the pier.

[Teufelhunden]

US ARMY - Uncle Sam Ain't Released Me Yet


Can't forget:

Muscles Are Required Intelligence Not Essential.

;)

-Teuf

[GySgt]

Thanks Devil Dog !!!

Semper Fi, GySgt

[fivepaknh]

fivepaknh....Sounds to me like a Marine got the best of you somehow and you still have a chip on your shoulder about it. Let it go man, let it go :) :)
No, that never happened. I primarily hang out at www.military.com (http://www.military.com) and it gets old. :rolleyes:

[moa]

IIRC, it was the US Coast Guard that manned all the smaller landing craft for the Army during WWII in neat places such as the invasion of Normandy.

Also, do not forget the US Merchant Marines (part of the US Maritime Commission) whom manned many of the merchant ships of WWII, and took casualities in various campaigns such as the Battle Of the Atlantic againts more than 700 or so Nazi U-Boats, surface raiders, and Q ships (large merchant ships the Nazi's turned into stealth heavy gun cruisers), the Italian Navy and both German and Italian Air forces.

I think something like 36,000 Allied seaman died during WWII.

[Delmar]

I truly love all this banter. Just got back from my son's basic training graduation at Ft Sill. We had a really long talk about what he is doing and where he is going-AIT at Ft Sam Houston to be a medical corpsman, and possibly to jump school at Ft Benning.

My family goes back 140 years of military service to the country that we can document. Primarily Army, but with some exceptions and unique opportunities-my Grandfather was in the 2nd Infantry Division in WWI, which was a combination Army-Marine outfit commanded by a Marine. He used to talk about the good natured ribbing between them, but when it came time to do the job, it got done.

Shock troops? Well, three members of the family, including myself in the 101st Airborne, as well as two in the 82nd. A couple in the Air Force, one in the Marines and one in the Navy. So far, no Coasties but my youngest son hasn't made up his mind yet.

Family reunions are very entertaining to say the least, especially when the booze starts flowing:D and the ribbing begins, but there is an abiding respect in my clan which cuts across all of the boundaries. Funny, if its not a jar head pickin on a dog face, its the 101 hounding on the 82nd-then it breaks out into your MOS and where you were and what you did! Wouldn't trade it for anything or everything.

[dzrtram]

Teufelhunden said it all. I was going to let this drop, and this will be my last post on this subject, however this guy illustrates exactly what I'm talking about. This isn't good natured interservice rivalry. It is exactly the kind of B.S. I've live with for years, and that's why I was so touchy about 280s remarks, which were presented in good humor.
Teufelhunden, and most marines, really think like this. Much of what he says about missions is correct. The Marine Corps is a hit and run, small mission (only by comparison) service. They cannot sustain, nor are they trained or capable of fighting a war. However, the rest of his statements are the kind of ignorant, uneducated, "Georgia Cracker"-type of boot camp history I deplore. I was taught this by D.I.s also. USMC boot camp history, so full of one-sided error and ignorance, is a disgrace, and it is not good-natured interservice rivalry, and no other branch of the military engages in this crap.
Yes, I do have the advantage of having been both an American and World history teacher. I do not expect Teufelhunden and his ilk to know all I have spent years researching and teaching, but I do not expect this kind of ignorant history to be spewed out in earnest either. This is a perfect illustration of absolutely not knowing what he is talking about. Read some history Teufelhunden. The U.S. Army has never, and will never need the USMC. The war in Europe proves that. The army could have had the 4th ID, or some other unit, where the Marines were and never missed the Marines. It is an absolute fact that our Congress, and all military officers, realize that we no longer need a large Marine Corps. It has been discussed in Congress for years that it be made a put in the navy (as in naval infantry, like Russia and others), or part of the army. It is also a fact that at one time the Marines agreed to be part of the army rather than be disolved entirely. The literature on this is endless. Start with David Hackworth, if you know who he is.
It is also a fact that, because of their disgusting ego, they decided to NOT be a part of Special Operations. However, when, in large, they were left out of most of the early and main action in Afghanistan --before Candy Bar.....ooops, I mean Kandahar....where they brought the press with them, as they usually do, they realized they needed to construct a spec op unit and become part of Special Operations. This is what they are now doing. Pretty strong proof that they had not much of what equals the army, Rangers, Special Forces, or Delta Force, and or the army special units, or Navy SEALs, etc., and now have to create one.
Oh, BTW, I almost forgot. Do you know who won the world sniper championships this last year? NO, it wasn't the Marines, it was an ARMY team, an ARMY National Guard team was second, and a Marine team was third. There ya go. Mano a mano soldier vs. marine. Who won it the year before. NO it wasn't the Marines.
This has gone on too long for me. I live with this crap all the time. I'm not going to be able to participate any longer as I am leaving town. I do hope it gets back to the humor 280 intended, though. I'm outta here.
God bless ALL our military. You too, Teufelhunden

[dzrtram]

280PLUS,
No problem, my friend. I admitted to Dorgunr that I overreacted. It was only because of my background. I have nothing agains the Marines, except their mouths. I respect every other thing about them. I would love to hear your friend's story of Pont-du-hoc. My Uncle lied about his age and joined the Army Nationa Guard at 14 before the war. By D Day he was a Sgt. He his the beaches at Normandy and went all the way through the Battle of the Bulge, and on to the end of the war. You sound like a true gentleman.
Best regards.

[Khornet]

1. If it's not bolted down, steal it.
2. If it's bolted down, paint it.
3. There's the right way, the wrong way, and the Navy way.

And from a grizzled old HMCS, to me on my first Navy day: "You ask why, Doc? You must be new."

[Teufelhunden]

First, dzr, In accordance with the name of these forums and general standards of behavior, I would request that you leave ad hominems out of any further postings. Making references to 'Georgia Crackers', referring to me and 'my ilk', and denigrating my intelligence with such reccomendations as "Read some history Teufelhunden." and "The literature on this is endless. Start with David Hackworth, if you know who he is." are, in my understanding, generally beyond the gentlemanly boundaries of educated discussion. I had delivered my previous post with what I considered to be diplomatic and honorable terms and am sorry it was not received as such.

It is an absolute fact that our Congress, and all military officers, realize that we no longer need a large Marine Corps.

Second, if you are going to post issues which you believe to be fact but have not yet met general acceptace as such, back it up, most easily with sources and quotes from on-line references. I, for one, object to the claim that ALL miliary officers have come to the conclusion that a large Marine Corps is unnecessary. I also wonder how one can claim that the Marine Corps has even been large. There are approximately 175,000 Marines between the fleet and reserve components, a number which is far from large in consideration of the fact that the Army numbers its soldiers in excess of half a million.


Oh, BTW, I almost forgot. Do you know who won the world sniper championships this last year? NO, it wasn't the Marines, it was an ARMY team, an ARMY National Guard team was second, and a Marine team was third. There ya go. Mano a mano soldier vs. marine. Who won it the year before. NO it wasn't the Marines.

Discussing the Army sniper team's achievement only with the intent of showing how they've beaten the Marines only serves to prove that the Marines are indeed the ones who generally set the standard, and that the Army overcame a difficult barrier. Congratulations Army team, you have finally excelled.

Pretty strong proof that they had not much of what equals the army, Rangers, Special Forces, or Delta Force, and or the army special units, or Navy SEALs, etc., and now have to create one.

A description of the training every Force Recon Marine receives (from this (http://www.forcerecon.com/reconfaq.htm#two) site: "Initial training consists of Marine Recruit Training, & the School of Infantry, training as a rifleman. Students are then assigned to the Basic Recon Course. Upon successful completion of the BRC, Marines report to their assigned recon unit & receive various professional, technical and tactical training. Among these are: Airborne (basic and Military Freefall) Jumpmaster, Pathfinder, Ranger, Scout-Sniper, Combat Diver (SCUBA) Diving Supervisor, Mountain warfare & assault climber, Jungle operations, specialized training in urban tactics, Close Quarters Battle & shooting skills, demolitions, communications, photography, controlling aircraft landing operations and directing Airstrikes, Naval Gunfire and Artillery." While Force Recon might not be aligned with Special Operations as far as tables of TO&E go, assuming this means that they've a lesser quality of operative is just spiteful.

This has gone on too long for me. I live with this crap all the time.

Not to put too fine a point on this, but that you see the Marine attitude to be overbearing and aggravating is your problem. Your attitude towards your former brothers is in my estimation, deplorable. Regardless, it has absolutely no effect on the Marine Corps as a whole. Evidently my Marine Corps has failed you in some manner, but America and her people still have faith in their Marine Corps, and the rest of the world still considers us to be among the best, so I will neither cease nor modulate my admiration for my beloved Corps.

Mods, I would suggest you allow drz the benefit of a rebuttle, then lock this thread as it has strayed far from its humorous origins.

Semper Fidelis.

-Teufelhunden
aka
Corporal Jackson.

[GySgt]

Well put Devil Dog!!

I agree that dzr was failed by, or more likely failed, our Beloved Corps. It's hard to believe that any Marine would be ashamed of having been one, but he obviously is.

Keep the faith and Semper Fi, GySgt

[ninjaj448]

A question, drz...

If 'crap like this' gets to you how can you live in California (or Commiefornia)?

Inter-service rivalry always has been, is and will always be around. In my view, anyone who lets this kind of bantering chatter *really* get to them is either a loser or someone who has problems that responses on this board cannot correct.

The thing is, IMHO(well, not so humble), military vets CAN dis each other because we've got our respective experiences, our histories and sense of brotherhood behind us.

Let some draft-dogding, military bashing, left wing 'activist' jump in here and see what happens. I'll bet you could join in the 'fun' then.

Respectfully,

[280PLUS]

similar to the last ones but different,,,

#1. if it works, dont fix it

#2. if it doesn't work, paint it...

for dzr,,,no offense taken, i knew i'd be stirring up some stuff when i posted this thread,,,but it WAS all in good fun,,,

one pont du hoc story, they are all short, sometimes only one or 2 sentences, but one that always stuck:

in about 1987 or so (i'm guessing) he attended a reunion of the group for the first time since the war.

he said to me later, after he had come back, but maybe not in these exact words:

"i saw a guy there who all these years i thought was dead, i thought i saw him get his face shot off right beside me, but it turns out it was some other guy. I was shocked to see that he was alive"

come next d-day anniversary, someone will post a thread to recognize the day and i will post a few more of the comments he made to me about it over the years

well, here's another one, "they were shooting right down our throats"

(literally, think about it)

(as well as rolling grenades down the cliffs and cutting their ropes)

when he made that statement i saw him get a real far away look in his eyes and i knew that for that tiny moment in time, just then, this guy was right back in pont du hoc climbing those cliffs in his memory and watching his buddies die all around him again...

he climbed as a sgt btw...26 y.o.

i still feel very fortunate that i met and got know him,,,i always will,,,

m

[Ed Straker]

dzrtram: You claim to have been a Marine Reservist, but you continuously refer to Marines as 'they'. Why?
Semper Fi

[Tierhog]

Sorry for the length. I felt my Brothers would like to hear some other peoples opinions about our beloved Corps. Notice what the Army says...



"Today, the world looks to America for leadership. And America looks to its Corps of Marines."
- President Ronald Reagan

"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference,
and our Marines don't have that problem."
- President Ronald Reagan, 1985


"I am convinced that there is no smarter, handier, or more adaptable body of troops in the world."
- Prime Minister of Britain Winston Churchhill


"A Marine should be sworn to the patient endurance of hardships, like the ancient knights; and it is not the least of these necessary hardships to have to serve with sailors."
- Field Marshal Montgomery


"My experience as a Marine was a very positive thing. As an enlisted man, I learned real self-discipline... It has been immensely important to me in my business career."
- J. Richard Munro, Chairman, Time-Warner Inc

You earned the title "Marine" upon graduation from recruit training. It wasn't willed to you; it isn't a gift. It is not a government subsidy. Few can claim the title; no one may take it away. It is yours forever
- Tom Bartlett - Leatherneck Magazine

"The Marines fought almost solely on esprit decorps, I was certain. It was inconceivable to most Marines that they should let another Marine down, or that they could be responsible for dimming the bright reputation of their Corps. The Marines simply assumed that they were the world's best fighting men."
- Robert Sherrod, 1943, regarding the battle at Tarawa

"Visit the Navy-Yard, and behold a Marine... a mere shadow and reminiscence of humanity, a man laid out alive and standing and already, as one may say, buried under arms with funeral accompaniments."
- Henry David Thoreau, Civil Disobedience, 1848


"It's a funny thing, but, as years go by, I think you appreciate more and more what a great thing it was to be a United States Marine... I am a U.S. Marine and I'll be one till I die."
- Ted Williams, Baseball Hall of Famer


Marines are about the most peculiar breed of human beings I have ever witnessed. They treat their service as if it was some kind of cult, plastering their emblem on almost everything they own, making themselves up to look like insane fanatics with haircuts to ungentlemanly lengths, worshipping their Commandant almost as if he was a god, and making weird animal noises like a band of savages. They'll fight like rabid dogs at the drop of a hat just for the sake of a little action, and are the cockiest SOB's I have ever known. Most have the foulest mouths and drink well beyond man's normal limits, but their high spirits and sense of brotherhood set them apart and , generally speaking, of the United States Marines I've come in contact with, are the most professional soldiers and the finest men I have had the pleasure to meet.
An Anonymous Canadian Citizen

People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men
stand ready to do violence on their behalf.
-George Orwell

The Marines have landed, and the situation is well in hand.
-Richard Harding Davis, war correspondent (1885)

"I can't say enough about the two Marine divisions. If I use words like 'brilliant,' it would really be an under description of the absolutely superb job that they did in breaching the so-called 'impenetrable barrier.' It was a classic- absolutely classic- military breaching of a very very tough minefield, barbed wire, fire trenches-type barrier."
- Gen. Norman Schwarzkopf, Commander, U.S. Central Command, February 1991

"I have just returned from visiting the Marines at the front, and there is not a finer
fighting organization in the world."
- General Douglas MacArthur, U.S. Army


"Why the hell can't the Army do it if the Marines can; they are all the same kind of men...
why can't the Army be like the Marines?"
- Commander-in-Chief, AEF General J. Pershing, U.S. Army


"The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of Marines. Lord, how they could fight."
- Major General Frank Lowe, U.S. Army


"I can never see a United States Marine without experiencing a feeling of reverence."
- General Johnson, U.S. Army


"The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle."
- General Pershing, U.S. Army


"Lying offshore, ready to act, the presence of ships and Marines sometimes means much more than just having air power or ship's fire, when it comes to deterring a crisis. And the ships and Marines may not have to do anything but lie offshore. It is hard to lie offshore with a C-141 or C-130 full of airborne troops."
- Gen. Colin L. Powell, USA



"The American Marines have it [pride], and benefit from it. They are tough, cocky,
sure of themselves and their buddies. They can fight and they know it."
- General Mark Clark, U.S. Army


"The 1st Marine Division is the most efficient and courageous combat unit I have ever seen or heard of."
- Major General Frank E. Lowe , US Army , 1950


"Your Marines having been under my command for nearly six months, I feel that I can give you a discriminating report as to their excellent standing with their brothers of the army and their general good conduct."
- General John J. Pershing, USA, in a letter to Major General Commandant George Barnett, USMC, Nov 10, 1917


"No one can say that the Marines have failed to do their work in handsome fashion."
- Major General Hagood, U.S. Army


"The Marines and Navy have never shone more brightly than this morning."
- Gen Douglas MacArthur at Inchon landing, Korean War


"The more Marines I have around, the better I like it."
- General Clark, U.S. Army


The man who will go where his colors will go, without asking, who will fight a phantom foe in a jungle and mountain range, without counting, and who will suffer and die in the midst of incredible hardship, without complaint, is still what he has always been, from Imperial Rome to sceptered Britain to Democratic America. He is the stuff of which legions are made. His pride is his colors and his regiment, his training hard and thorough and coldly realistic, to fit him for what he must face, and his obedience is to his orders. As a legionary, he held the gates of civilization for the classical world...he has been called United States Marine.
Lieutenant Colonel T.R. Fehrenbach, US Army in "This Kind of War"


Quotes from the Navy about Marines

"There is no military body in our country of higher efficiency than the Marine Corps.
They take great pride in their profession. They never let things slack a bit."
- Rear Admiral C.M. Wilslow, U.S. Navy

"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that
they are the most ferocious fighters on earth- and the amusing thing about it is that they are."
- Father Kevin Keaney, 1st MarDiv Chaplain, Korean War


"The Marine Corps has just been called by the New York Times, 'The elite of this country.' I think it is the elite of the world."
- Admiral William Halsey, U.S. Navy


"By their victory, the 3rd, 4th and 5th Marine Divisions and other units of the Fifth Amphibious Corps have made an accounting to their country which only history will be able to value fully. Among the American who served on Iwo Island, uncommon valor was a common virtue."
- Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, U.S. Navy



"A ship without Marines is like a garment without buttons."
- Admiral David Dickson Porter



"My only answer as to why the Marines get the toughest jobs is because the average Leatherneck is a much better fighter. He has far more guts, courage, and better officers... These boys out here have a pride in the Marine Corps and will fight to the end no matter what the cost."
- 2nd Lt. Richard C. Kennard, Peleliu, World War II


"Remember, whatever you write, this was no retreat. All that happened was that we found
more Chinese behind us than in front of us, so we about-faced and attacked."
- Chesty Puller, USMC, speaking to reporters after the battle out of the Chosin Reservoir, Korean War


"Goddamn it, you'll never get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole! Follow me!"
- Captain Henry P. "Jim" Crowe, USMC, Guadacanal, 13 January 1943


"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold."
- 1stLt Clifton B. Cates, USMC, 96th Co., Soissons, 19 July 1918

"Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever?"
- Sergeant Dan Daly leading his Marines forward against German troops at the Battle of Belleau Wood, World War I


"They're on our right, they're on our left, they're in front of us, they're behind us;
they can't get away from us this time."
- Chesty Puller, USMC, Chosin Reservoir, Korean War


"...we also receive from them [Marines past] the eternal spirit which has animated our Corps from generation to generation... So long as that spirit continues to flourish Marines will be found equal to every emergency in the future as they have in the past, and the men of the Nation will regard us as worthy successors to the long line of illustrious men who have served..."
- General John A. Lejeune, Commandant, USMC, Marine Corps Birthday Message, 1921


"Casualties many; Percentage of dead not known; Combat efficiency; we are winning."
- Colonel David M. Shoup, USMC, Tarawa, 21 November 1943


"Every Marine is, first and foremost, a rifleman. All other conditions are secondary."
- General A.M. Gray, Commandant USMC


"...in the days preceding the war the United States possessed the world's top ranking Marine Corps at a cost to the nation of $1,500 per Marine, while it had the eighteenth place Army, at a cost of $2,000 per soldier."
- USMC Commandant Vandegrift, speaking to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 1946


"For the Marine Corps there is no peace."
- Sergeant Edwin N. Demby, USMC; later Secretary of the Navy


"The bended knee is not a tradition of our Corps."
- General Alexander A. Vandergrift, USMC, to the Senate Naval Affairs Committee, 5 May 1946


"Retreat, hell! We just got here."
- Capt Lloyd Williams at the Battle of Belleau Wood


"We're surrounded. That simplifies our problem of getting to these people and killing them."
- Chesty Puller at the Chosin Reservoir


When an Army captain asked him for the direction of the line of retreat, Col Puller called his artillerymen, gave them the Army position, and ordered: "If they start to pull back from that line, even one foot, I want you to open fire on them." Turning to the captain, he replied "Does that answer your question? We're here to fight." At Koto-ri in Korea
- Chesty Puller at Koto-ri in Korea


"The mail service has been excellent out here, and in my opinion this is all that the
Air Force has accomplished during the war."
- Chesty Puller in a letter to his wife while in Korea


"Don't forget that you're First Marines! Not all the Communists in hell can overrun you!"
- Chesty Puller motivating his men at Chosin Reservoir


Old breed? New breed? There's not a damn bit of difference so long as it's the Marine breed.
- Chesty Puller, USMC


"It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, and who's coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag"
Father Dennis Edward O'Brien/USMC


"Do not attack the First Marine Division. Leave the yellowlegs alone. Strike the American Army."
- Orders given to Communist troops in the Korean War; shortly afterward, the Marines were ordered to not wear their khaki leggings to keep the enemy from immediately fleeing

"Panic sweeps my men when they are facing the American Marines!"
- Captured North Korean Major

"They told our perimeter guard to open up or we'll blow you away and then they looked up and saw the Marines on the roof with these really big guns and they said in Somali, 'Igaralli ahow,' which means, 'Excuse me, I didn't mean it, my mistake.'"
- Karen Aguilar, U.S. Embassy, Mogadishu, Somalia, 1991

"The American Marines are terribly reckless fellows...they would make very good storm troopers."
- Unidentified German officer at Belleau Wood

[capnrik]

I don't post much....just read and enjoy. I've never been in the military, nor even in the Coast Guard. The only 'rank' I've ever earned is a 100 ton License in the Merchant Marine. So, as the lowliest of the low here, let me observe that pride in service is a great thing, and proud warriors are a wonderful asset.

Will they always get along with each other? Probably not.

My neighbor's son is with 4 ID in Iraq, and my other neighbor's brother is SF in Bosnia. I will tell all of you that have served the same thing I told them:

You'll never be thirsty in my house.

You'll never go hungry in my town.

If you want to wrestle, get out of the house!

[Sodbuster]

Why no Smedley Butler quote? BTW God bless Chesty Puller.

[Leatherneck]

<Leatherneck arrives late, looks around, snorts...>
So what's up with you dzrtram? Why are your skivvies bunched up so tight? Are you really a Marine? What unit? :scrutiny:

TC
TFL Survivor


Happy Birthday, Marines! (one day early)

[Abominable No-Man]

All right guys, calm down. Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, whatever, everyone has their mission and does it the best they can.

Interservice rivalry is one thing, but go easy, okay? Badmouthing isn't needed or wanted around here.

The way I see it, the smaller the organization the more elite they consider themselves. That's ok. All the training in the world won't equal the truly dedicated and motivated individual, and that individual can be seen in ANY of the branches of service. That's the guy who polishes his boots every night even though he knows there's no inspection the next day and they'll just get screwed up again anyway. It's the guy who cleans his weapons every day whether they need it or not. It's the guy who DOES all of his security checks on guard duty or staff duty or whatever instead of just pencil whipping the thing. It's the guy who will wake up at oh-dark thirty and tell you what the weather check for today is or guide your vehicle or whatever you ask him to instead of blowing you off. That's motivation and professionalism and it's in all the branches of service.

I will say this much: the Marine Corps has a much better public ralations bag than anyone else, so you tend not to see the warts.

ANM

[Delmar]

capnrik

Maybe nobody will tip their hat to you, but I will. One of my dad's best friend's was in the merchant marines in WWII and had a ship torpedoed out from under him. I grew up on Lake Superior, and while it may only be a "lake", the storms have taken a lot of pretty good sized ships, and Ed used to fascinate me with some of his stories.

Coming home on leave one time, I took a tour through the Maritime Sailors Cathedral in Detroit and brought Ed a model of a Liberty ship. It was made out of the prop of one of those old ships.

Ed was a tough ole guy, made it thru the war and retired after decades of service. Never saw the man tear up until I handed him that little gift.
He sure did his part and then some even without ending up in the waters of the North Atlantic, but like a few other notables, didn't get in on the GI Bill.

Thank you

[280PLUS]

nice tribute,,,

and the no-man hit the nail on the head too,,,

m

[brownie0486]

The Marines are part of the Navy,


THE BEST PART.


We always appreciated the ride to and from, thanks for the memories.

Semper Fi to my brothers, and Happy Birthday to all Marines.


Brownie

[Delmar]

280PLUS

I'm retired Army, and I have to say that I just don't understand where the courage comes from fighting at sea. As a teenager, I was out on a party barge with a few of my friends on ole "Lake Gitcheegoomie" (Superior) and we were having a great time until this storm came up and just about killed us all.
I do know what its like to be shot at on the land and its certainly no fun, but the sea is a different kind of terror, not less or worse than, but very different.

[280PLUS]

and dumb,,,

i never gave it a thought,,,

i loved the sea, the rougher the better,,,foolish bravado i suppose

it wasn't going to get ME,,,i wouldn't let it,,,

i had the privlege (sp?) of not being shot at during my tour so i sit in wonderment of your courage and hope i would have measured up,,,

m

[OEF_VET]

Army rule.....

If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

[bountyhunter]

Yes, Department of the Navy. Says so right here...

Ask a marine who supplies their medics who have to go everywhere they go, hump just as much gear, get shot at just as much, sew up their oobies ..... and still get called "squids".

Yes, it's the Navy.

[Ed Straker]

Marines don't have medics, we have Corpsmen. And I would never call one a 'squid'.

BTW, Teufelhunden, I'm a 'Georgia cracker', too! Semper Fi!

[Rockrivr1]

I have to agree that there's been ribbing between the armed forces for many years. For the most part it's good natured and every once in a while a tuffle or two will break out, but push come to shove I found that we have each other's back.

I remember a time back in the late 80s when we put into the Phillipeans from a six month Indian Ocean cruise. I was attached to a F/A-18 squadron on the USS Midway. Subic Bay was the Midway's second home and we all looked forward to the fun and adventure outside the base as we'd been out almost 4 months without seeing land.

A big group of us headed out to Subic City, which if you've never been is quite some distance away from Subic Bay. Well a group of us entered a bar that had a large group of Marines in attendance. Well I'm not sure why but before you know it the biggest bar fight broke out. Nobody was seriously trying to hurt anyone, but fists were flying. I gave some licks and received some licks until the Phillipeno Police showed up, poped a few rounds into the ceiling and tried to arrest guys. Then the Navy and Marines became one unit with the objective of getting the hell out of there. Me and three marines went out a back window. It was something right out of a movie. The four of us bobed and weaved our way through the jungle until we made it back to Subic Bay. We were laughing all the way. Three jarhead and a squid. By the time we made it back to Subic Bay our cloths were ripped, full of mud and grit and we were thirsty as hell. The four of us pounded beers till the wee morning hours. You know I'm still good friends with one of the Marines to this day. I still chuckle to this day thinking about it.

The moral, yeah we rib and fight each other. But we are all Americans and we help each other out when there is a need and a common goal.

Just my 2 cents.

[Beav]

chinks? :cuss:

[moa]

That brawl story about Marines and Navy reminds me of a story my father told me about his adventures during WWII in the Merchant Marines.

His ship was in some South American port city (forget which one), and on the street where all the bars where frequented by seamen, he ran into trouble with English (called them Limeys then) seamen. The Limeys resented American seamen because they made a lot more money than themselves.

Anyway Pop throws the first punch, an all hell breaks loose. Before he knew it, he says American and English seaman and sailors came flying out of the bars. He estimates the fight he started became a brawl involving at least 200 guys. He did not stick around for the end, if there was one. He was kind of proud of starting that fight.

[MarkDido]

To quote Sgt. Hukla in "Stripes"

"Lighten Up Francis!"

Uncle Sam's Yacht Club
1973 - 1995

[Steve Smith]

I can't believe you people. Today some of us honor our veterans, but you all have compiled such a vile and disrespectful thread that it disgusts me. Military branch rivalry is one thing, but to continue to slam a select branch or two is detestable. How do you think our Air Force or Navy pilots would feel when reading this thread? Do you think they appreciate knowing that the pro-US civilians are tearing them down? What about the Airman on the flightline that works 16 hours on the flightline fueling fighters, and has nothing to show for it except the food stamps that his wife back home is using to feed their children?

You people infuriate me.