Mauser project: .260 Remington


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lpd843
December 30, 2009, 06:23 AM
Hey guys need some input,

I aquired an 1895 Chilean Mauser about a year go and have been racking my brain on what to do with this gun. I have been wanting a custom rifle for some time and thought this gun would make a decent donor. I know it is a small ring mauser that cannot withstand alot of pressure, but I do not have a lot of money in it and would like to use it if I could. I've done research on the recievers and spoke with E.R. Shaw Barrels and they said that the caliber I want will be fine for the "soft" small ring reciever. I would like to convert it to .260 Remington and put a nice custom wood stock on it. What do you think? Anyone ever attempted this before? What do you think about the .260 Remington round?

Also, if anyone could point me in the directin of finding reloading books on the .260 Remington I would appreciate it greatly

I will be building this rifle for an all purpose rifle that will one day be passed down

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eastbank
December 30, 2009, 06:46 AM
in the long run it would pay you to buy a regular rifle over building one. or buy a already sporterized 98 mauser rifle with a bad barrel and have er shaw put a new 260 barrel on it. you can get 500-600 dollars in rebuilding a mauser and never get it out of it when you sell it. i bought a real nice 98 mauser already sporterized for 200.00 with a so-so barrel that i was going to rebarrel but it still shot pretty good so i didn,t rebarrel it and used it as is in 8mm untill i sold it. to give you a idea about cost, drill and tap-20.00 a hole,4 holes needed. stock any where from 100-200 dollars, bolt altered for scope 35-60 dollars, new safety 20-30 dollars, new trigger 69-200 dollars, sights if wanted 40-65 dollars, reblue 79-125 dollars, new barrel and installion 200-300 dollars. it adds up fast. i have seen used rem model 7,s in 260 rem on auction for 550-700 dollars and you may find one cheaper if you shop around. eastbank.

lpd843
December 30, 2009, 07:10 AM
Thanks eastbank,

I know what you mean by never get out what you put in, I'm really not looking for a commercial rifle I have a couple store bought ones, I would like to own a true custom rifle to hang on to and not sell for my son to have one day. I have saved a couple $100 and figured this route would be cheaper than the $2500-$3000 "not so commercialized customs" like a HS Precision or Brown. I have seen some nice reborn mausers!

Curator
December 30, 2009, 07:59 AM
The 1895 Mauser is probably not the best for a high pressure cartridge like the .260 Rem. These were designed for the 7mm Mauser cartridge and about 45,000 psi. You might consider this cartridge or the ,257 Roberts, both of which supply factory ammo in that pressure range. Another advantage is these cartridges will feed properly from the magazine and the shorter .260 may not.

rust collector
December 30, 2009, 09:29 AM
I hate to act like the voice of reason, but curator and eastbank are spot on. We've all seen and lusted after well done reworks of military guns, but the only time it makes sense is when you can't afford a newer design and you have the skills (or a friend with the skills) to do a first class job.

There are far more cobbled-up project guns in existence than there are sweet classics. It's a bit like buying a business--you want to buy after the first guy has paid for startup, taken the depreciation hit, run out of money and realized it isn't what he thought it would be. Don't be that guy.

Modern metallurgy, production capability and the experience of the last 100 years make for a better, much less expensive package that will get most of your investment back if it doesn't turn out as planned. You can get a competent rig for $600, one that shoots better than you can for $1200, and a kickass tackdriver at $1800. Why drag it down with bits of an old war horse whose history is lost once you grind it up?

ArmedBear
December 30, 2009, 10:04 AM
I have saved a couple $100...

Oh good. So you have enough money for the scope mount and rings.

Seriously, a new Model 70 for $650 at a local retailer has a better action, a better trigger, nice accuracy, and a factory warranty. If you spend that much on this "custom" rifle, including the price you paid for the antique you want to butcher, you've spent too much. And if you want to spend more, at least start with a first-class action, not one that you know is metallurgically inferior from the start.

Uncle Mike
December 30, 2009, 10:28 AM
Buy a 'production' rifle and simply 'customize' it to your liking!

Stock work, metal work, custom scope mounts, engraving, triggers, safeties, metal coatings, stock coatings....you name it.

You can get 'nice' little touches added to a production rifle that makes it 'your' rifle, for little cash.

ArmedBear
December 30, 2009, 10:41 AM
BTW there's an intermediate-length Yugo in my closet, where it's been for a while. I used to think about having a 7x57mm rifle built on its action. The more I looked into it, the less I wanted to do it.

Best case scenario: soup from a stone.:)

NCsmitty
December 30, 2009, 10:55 AM
Your 1895 Chilean Mauser should not be subjected to a higher pressure cartridge like the 260 Rem. As mentioned, it is designed for 45,000psi and may suffer from lug setback with continued use of high pressure loads.
If you insist on converting the 1895, then I suggest the 6.5x55 Swede, as it's designed to work in a small ring Mauser, and its performance is legendary.
Unless you can provide the machining and labor required to convert an old Mauser, you would be money and time ahead purchasing a Marlin or Stevens bolt rifle. They are good rifles at reasonable prices.



NCsmitty

Olympus
December 30, 2009, 11:00 AM
There are all kinds of threads on here about guys wanting to customize an old surplus rifle. You get the same responses every time. Most people will say it's a waste of time and/or money and you get recommendations on buying a commercial rifle and then customizing.

I have done what you're thinking about. I'll post some pictures of how mine turned out. If you want something that looks good, you'll be paying for it. It's not cheap. There are a lot of these "bubba'ed" projects mainly because people start out with big plans and then see that it gets expensive quickly and they start cutting corners and trying to save money. If you go that route, you'll have just another bubba project. If you want it done right, it's going to cost you roughly TWICE as much as a commercial rifle. But do it right and you'll have a gun that is guaranteed to be one of a kind. That was the biggest pull for me. I had the extra funds, so money wasn't a problem. I was willing to pay dearly for something totally unique.

If E.R. Shaw says the Chilean will hold up to a .260, I would believe it. They make a good product and I'd feel confident taking their opinion. .260 is a hot little round that a lot of the long range competition shooters are using. Very flat shooting cartridge. I would like to have one myself.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011511.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011512.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011513.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011514.jpg

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa121/adambrown69/P1011515.jpg

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2009, 11:41 AM
I agree with Olympus(almost)100%. Built your Mauser as you like it but be prepared to PAY! I would also agree with the suggestions to use 6.5x55 or .257 Roberts over the .260 Rem. They will ALL work in the unmodified Mauser magazine but (E.R.Shaw not withstanding) the .260 is TOO hot for the Chilean 1895. You will definitely enjoy building YOUR own rifle.

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 30, 2009, 12:07 PM
I did what you are considering 20 years ago, but left the gun as a 7x57. I could not then (or now) see any practical advantage of changing to another low pressure cartridge.

I use the gun on occasion, when it suits me. It is light and short (20" barrel) and makes a fine woods to pasture deer rifle.

However, it was a beautiful all matching DWM Chilean long rifle made in 1897, and I do not think what I accomplished did justice to it, and I will not do such a project again.

I recommend a Zastava action, and go from there.

http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#zastava____-_1-2-4_8-16-32

Olympus
December 30, 2009, 12:17 PM
You can pick up a Yugo 24/47 for about $150 pretty easily. Then you'll have an action that will handle the .260 without a problem.

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 30, 2009, 12:41 PM
Be advised that Yugos are safety breeched. It was a design improvement that Mauser came up with around 1911, and very few countries adopted. In practical terms, it means the barrel will have to mounted, marked, and an extractor groove milled to allow the bolt to fully close. Check with your gunsmith in advance to see if that is going to be a problem.

Olympus
December 30, 2009, 03:29 PM
As long as you use a knowledgeable and reputable gunsmith, it won't be any kind of problem and it won't be any kind of huge factor in price. It wasn't a big deal at all for my project. Most of the customized Mauser actions I've seen have all been some type of Yugo because they're cheap, solid, and they have very limited historical value.

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2009, 03:39 PM
I prefer Turks and Colombian actions for my builds but the Yugos are solid choices as well. The chilean 1895 would not be my choice for a .260 rem. but would be an acceptable choice for a lesser caliber.

lpd843
December 30, 2009, 04:55 PM
I'm going to use the Chilean simply because I already own it, it doesnt make sense to me for someone to say "save money, go buy another gun" I have about $100 in this one and is in really good shape.

My mauser will be converted by ER Shaw, action and all, so I trust that if it could be done they can do it!

I was considering the 6.5x 55 swede but have not done the research on this round and it is a caliber ER Shaw offers for this conversion. Basically with ER Shaw you tell them what action you have and they give you a list of calibers they can convert your action with and the .260 and the 6.5x55 swede, .243, 22-250, .257 ack and about 6-7 more was on there up to a .375 h&h, barrel thickness and contour has alot to do with it too.

try it for yourself go to ER Shaw website, under navigation go to custom build and pick mauser 95 standard bolt then pick #3 contour and then it will show you calibers

Olympus, thanks for sharing the pictures that is what I'm looking for

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2009, 05:05 PM
Being able to do the conversion wasn't the question,it most certainly CAN be done but as NCSmitty pointed out the Chilean '95 is a "soft" action and sustained firing of high pressure rounds(like the .260) can result in the bolt "backing up" that is, it sets back into the receiver causing excessive head space. It may take years for this to happen or it might happen rather quickly or it may not happen at all. That is why I and others recommend a lighter cartridge or a stronger action.

Offfhand
December 30, 2009, 05:06 PM
The .260 Rem. is a superb cartridge that has proven to be an outstanding performer in the game field as well as on the target range. But even so no cartridge is better than the rifle in which it is fired and the.260 deserves a better rifle than can be cobbled together by screwing a crappy barrel into a cheap action.

jimmyraythomason
December 30, 2009, 05:08 PM
I don't think an E.R.Shaw barrel can be called "crappy".

lpd843
December 30, 2009, 05:22 PM
That is why I wanted to start this thread and get some input on what people thought of the "soft reciever". The reciever has stalled my thinking for over a year now, trying to find a suitable cartridge and one I would like for this reciever. Starting to lean towards the 6.5x55 but still thinking about er shaw's confidence in my receiver. 7x57 is not a cartridge option for me, never liked the round. Check out the caliber selections for this action at ER Shaw and tell me what you would convert it too and why

Chief Engineer
December 30, 2009, 05:22 PM
If you have your heart set on a semi-custom rifle go for it. Do as much of the work yourself ( prepareing for bluing, fitting and bedding the stock, ect), not necessarily to save money, but for personal satisfaction.
People that say you will not get you money back, will buy a $30,000 car and give it away in 5 years. I say go for it, and proudly pass it down when your done with it.

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 30, 2009, 05:38 PM
E. R. Shaw website, huh. Well, it seems that there is some kind of disconnect here. It seems that with heavier barrel contours, they are willing to put ever larger cases and pressures, all the while, the receiver and bolt are staying the same.

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 30, 2009, 05:40 PM
7x57 is not a cartridge option for me, never liked the round.Umm, the Chilean is a 7x57. Just curious, what is not to like about the 7x57?

lpd843
December 30, 2009, 05:58 PM
bullect trajectory, BC, and it requires alot of dope out at 500 yds.

lpd843
December 30, 2009, 06:56 PM
The 7x57 has moderate recoil, but alot more recoil then the .260 Remington--- so I'm thinking lower recoil= less wear and tear on your lugs?

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 31, 2009, 12:20 AM
BC, Doping, Trajectory etc: Using Remington factory 140 grain loads, and Remington trajectory data, there is roughly 2" of trajectory difference between a 140 gr PSP 6.5x55 and a 140 gr PSP 7x57 bullet at 500 yards.

Pressure (in pounds force per square inch) X Rim Head area (inches squared) = Force applied to the bolt face and transfered to the receiver via the lug(s)

(I use parentheses since many actions bear unevenly on the lugs.)

Since the 7x57 and 260 share the same rim diameter, the only variable is chamber pressure, which is specified to be 51000 psi for the 7x57 and 60000 psi for the 260. The 6.5x55 is 55000 psi and has a slightly larger rim diameter (.480 vs .473).

If the 7x57 @ 51000 psi is considered safe in the old 95 Mauser, then:

a 260 Remingtion @ 60000 is a 17.6 % higher force load
a 6.5x55 @ 54000 is a 4.7 % higher force load (thanks to the .480 rim as opposed to the .473)

If you want a 6.5 millimeter cartridge, I recommend the 6.5x55.

lpd843
December 31, 2009, 01:04 AM
Mr. Pale Horse,

Thank you! that is the advise I'm looking for. Since starting this thread I have researched the Swede round and have came to the same conclusion. I believe 6.5 would be more suitable as far as longevity of my rifle. I still would like a .260, but find another way to obtain one.

Now another question for you is, I looked it up but forgot, (case diameters) will I have feeding and extraction problems to consider converting from 7x57 to 6.5?

Mr_Pale_Horse
December 31, 2009, 01:17 AM
Looking at both, the lips of an M38 Swede look a little wider than the 95, but it is easy to take a little metal away and smooth things up, rather than add it back.

I will see about measuring both.

TarDevil
December 31, 2009, 02:59 AM
I think you'll be happier with the 6.5 Swede. I have long loved the cartridge, and there's plenty of commercial loads available.

Also, I think you'll find the Swede more accurate with 140 grain bullets than the .260 Remington.

Olympus
December 31, 2009, 12:30 PM
People that say you will not get you money back, will buy a $30,000 car and give it away in 5 years.

Can't say as I've ever heard it put that way. Nicely said!

Offfhand
December 31, 2009, 03:22 PM
Quote from above:

"Also, I think you'll find the Swede more accurate with 140 grain bullets than the .260 Remington."

Please explain why.
Thank you

Offfhand
January 1, 2010, 08:12 PM
Why no reply?

lpd843
January 2, 2010, 12:17 AM
I've made my decisions

ER Shaw barrel
6.5x55mm
chrome moly in white 26"
recessed target crown
straight fluting
#3 contour

richards microfit marksmen stock in camoflauge laminate

will take about 6 months, but I will do an update and post pics when finished

happy new year

jimmyraythomason
January 2, 2010, 12:43 AM
You will be happy with the 6.5x55. Is the Richards Microfit stock finished or unfinished? My experience with Richards has been somewhat less than desirable. It took months to get,it was the wrong one when I did get it. After several more weeks I finally got the right stock but it was a lot less than the 95% finished that was advertised. Nice stock after I finally got it done but had I known......

TarDevil
January 2, 2010, 05:09 AM
Why no reply?
Offhand, wasn't ignoring you. Just can't find the two articles that prompted my statement (there here somewhere in this mess of an office of mine). Personally, I don't own a .260 and have no direct experience, so I could be totally off base. I'll keep looking, though...

lpd843
January 2, 2010, 05:24 AM
jimmyraythomason,

I cant decide if I'm going to risk ordering an unfinished or "95 %" finished that they advertise. I have read mixed reviews on them, some say they was quite pleased with the stock, other say 3-5 stocks they have order was great, and then some have had horrible results but it seemed that Richards was willing to work with them on the problems and I'm not real sure about the barrel counter of Shaw's #3 to have it inletted by Richards who offer a #3 inlett. Probably go with the full action inlet and cut my barrel channel myself. They offer 1/16th over cut for bedding but I dont think I'll risk it.

jimmyraythomason
January 2, 2010, 10:38 AM
lpd843,the stock I received from them was good quality wood. Beautifully grained walnut,rated no.1 semi-fancy with rosewood fore-end tip and grip cap. RM installed a Pachmayr Decelerator recoil pad. Recoil pad installation was flawless. My problem aside from the fiasco of just GETTING my stock was the very rough condition and work left to do to a 95% finished stock.

dirtyjim
January 2, 2010, 11:11 AM
Also, I think you'll find the Swede more accurate with 140 grain bullets than the .260 Remington
thats because military swede barrels have a faster twist than most aftermarket 6.5 barrels reguardless of the chambering. most aftermarket 6.5 barrels are a 1-9 twist & most swede barrels are 1-8 twist. i have several barrels in 1-8 & several in 1-9. if 1-8 is available i will go with it over 1-9 even though most of the 1-9 barrels will still shoot 140grainers just fine.

er shaw is great for a budget build. for an additional $70 they will true the action, install the barrel, chamber & crown the barrel.
send the bolt to accu-tig in alaska for a new bolt handle first.
i've always thought the 250 & 300 savage were good calibers for 93 & 95 mauser builds

Olympus
January 2, 2010, 12:10 PM
That's a Richards stock in my pictures. I've done several threads on my experience with them. Bottom line, if I have other choices for a stock, I WILL NOT buy another Richards. Maybe you can do a search and find the threads I'm talking about. Someone will have a lot of woodworking to do on that stock, I'd wager.

TarDevil
January 2, 2010, 02:39 PM
thats because military swede barrels have a faster twist than most aftermarket 6.5 barrels reguardless of the chambering. most aftermarket 6.5 barrels are a 1-9 twist & most swede barrels are 1-8 twist. i have several barrels in 1-8 & several in 1-9. if 1-8 is available i will go with it over 1-9 even though most of the 1-9 barrels will still shoot 140grainers just fine.

er shaw is great for a budget build. for an additional $70 they will true the action, install the barrel, chamber & crown the barrel.
send the bolt to accu-tig in alaska for a new bolt handle first.
i've always thought the 250 & 300 savage were good calibers for 93 & 95 mauser builds
dirtyjim, I've long read that twist rates are an issue going from light to heavy bullets in this caliber, even with the swede. The articles I'm looking for pertain to the neck limitations on the .260 with heavy bullets while maintaining OAL. It was one of the reasons Hornady went ahead with the 6.5 Creedmoor... the shorter .30 TC case allowed longer neck and better bullet grip and less case intrusion - or, something like all that. Really, I can't remember. I'll find it! You've got my curiosity pricked..

dirtyjim
January 2, 2010, 02:51 PM
the .260 does have a shorter neck than the 6.5x55 swede.
the 6.5x51LPR is basically a .260 with a swede neck. you cut the chamber with a 6x5x55 reamer but you cut it .150 short then you shorten a set of 6.5x55 dies .150 to form the brass from .308 cases. then trim to 2.016"

lpd843
January 12, 2010, 11:24 AM
Mauser project suffered fatal error. The "soft action" twisted under torque from removing the old barrel, I soaked in penatrating oil overnight and it still was fussy until I got a little aggervated and applied to much pressure, Anyone got a mauser action laying around for cheap? still determined

Mr_Pale_Horse
January 12, 2010, 12:03 PM
Removing a mauser action takes an action wrench and barrel press vise (no household tools can be substituted), otherwise a severely marred and/or twisted action will result.

Samco global sells actions and barreled actions. They have some Swedes for sale; already 6.5x55.

www.samcoglobal.com

But they are not cheap.

Try gunbroker. You may find an old Oberndorf, Loewe or DWM action that has antique status and can be had without an FFL.

ArmedBear
January 12, 2010, 12:17 PM
Samco also has 24/47 barreled actions for $150. They're regular old 8mm Mausers, so the action should be plenty strong enough :)

http://www.samcoglobal.com/m24.html

NCsmitty
January 12, 2010, 03:28 PM
Sorry to hear of your problems with the small ring Mauser, lpd843. If you intend to follow through on a custom Mauser, ArmedBear's recommendation of a 24/47 or a M48 will allow you to revert to your original choice of the 260 Rem. These are strong intermediate length actions and they do work very well with 308 length cases like the 260. You will have to get a stock to fit the unique Yugo length action, but quantities of these rifles are still available at reasonable prices.



NCsmitty

jimmyraythomason
January 12, 2010, 03:36 PM
The intermediate length actions are great but the standard length actions also work very well with .260/.308 length cartridges.

ArmedBear
January 12, 2010, 03:39 PM
BTW, I know this isn't dirt cheap. It looks like you've pretty much killed that anyway...

CDNN has new Model 70 short actions for $349. Perfect for .260.

Olympus
January 12, 2010, 10:19 PM
Go with the Yugo 24/47, it will be the cheapest. A M48 would be the next best thing.

You can kind of see how DIY projects can quickly turn into bubbas. If you don't have the property tools, I wouldn't recommend doing the work yourself. For my project, I could have done a lot more of the work myself. But I would rather pay more and know for a fact that everything was done correctly rather than do it myself and always wonder if I messed up somewhere.

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