[newman32]

Anyone see GNA this morning? Gibson had an interview w/ the widow of a guy who was killed by a homeowner in Colorado. The whole slant was that Colorodo's "Make my day Law" is somehow to blame, and that the homeowner can not be charged with the guy's death leaving everyone outraged.

This reporting was completely one sided. There was no emphasis on the fact that the shootee was trying to get through the front door of the shooter's home (the real victim in my eyes). According to the widow, he had a 2 inch by 2 inch "stick" that was 36 inches long. (You mean a CLUB?)He actually broke through the glass of the shooters front door when the homeowner blasted him with a shotty.

Nothing about maybe not tresspassing. Nothing about self-restraint or breaking through someone's door with a "stick". Nothing about how the homeowner has a RIGHT to defend himself in his home if he feels threatened. Nothing about trying to work out problems like civilized adults and not barbarians. It was so one sided I was amazed (yet not surprized).

Sorry about the incoherance of my post. its still early for me but I had to get that out.

Thanks

[KMKeller]

I saw that as well and had the same take as you did.

[Cooter Brown]

At the riskof being redundant-and if so I think the moment justifies redundancy--

Wisconsin Concealed Carry
The CC Bill has passed the legislature and asof 11-11-03 was on the way to Gov. Doyle's desk. If you want this legislation to be LAW, contact Gov. Doyle NOW, and also make sure your assembly-person and senator-person hear from you to be set to override the Governor's expected veto. Email, write, fax or telephone.

Get behind it!!!

__________________

[O.F.Fascist]

I too had similar thougts after seeing that. Made me sick.

[Sean Smith]

Someone breaking into a house got shot? Boo hoo.

[El Tejon]

O.K., since no one will ask, why was he trying to enter the residence?

Why not just knock on the door or ring the doorbell? Why break the glass with the blunt weapon? How is Red law, which is similar to many other states, to blame? Because it has a goofy Hollywierd name?

Anyone have a link to a newspaper article out there?

[newman32]

http://boards.abcnews.go.com/cgi/abcnews/request.dll?LIST&room=abcnews_gma

...is the link to the GMA "opinion board". Most posters had the same opinion as I did on the report. I posted there and so far everyone is in agreement.

El Tejon, the neighbor apparently thought that his dog was shot with a pellet-gun by the neighbor, and I suppose he went over to settle things.

Its too bad the reporting isn't even close to fair.

[Andrew Rothman]

My reply:

I am surprised by such a one-sided story.

Self defense is a fundamental human right.

We all have a right to be safe in our homes, and to take action necessary to remain alive and unharmed.

That the dog owner in this story died is certainly a shame, but when one attacks a neighbor in his home, what should one expect except defensive action?

If a neighbor decided to attack me with a stick, what should I do? Grab a stick of my own so that the fight is fair?

No. I'm sorry. My life is worth more to me than that. If I am attacked, I will respond with sufficient force to guarantee that I remain on this earth.

Shame on you, Mr. Gibson, for your one-sided portrayal of this story, and for giving air time to a crusade to deprive people of the right to remain safe in their homes.

Good Morning America can, and generally does, do much better.

[Andrew Rothman]

Here's the story:

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/1103/04dog.html
Police say neighbor shot dog owner in noise dispute

By COLEMAN CORNELIUS
Denver Post


AULT, Colo. -- Richard Hammock so loved his pets that every night he fell asleep cuddled up with Mojo, his miniature pinscher, Baby, his miniature schnauzer and Cali, his cat.

He and Mojo enjoyed running around a backyard tree with his dog yipping at what the family called "his invisible squirrel," a game that delighted both Hammock and Mojo.

On Sunday evening, Mojo's barking became the center of a deadly dispute between neighbors that left Hammock, 48, dead of a 12-gauge shotgun blast to the chest. His neighbor, Eric Griffin, 33, was jailed on suspicion of second-degree murder, Ault Police Chief Tracey McCoy said Monday.

"It was so unnecessary," Hammock's wife, Diane, said as she sobbed and was embraced by distraught family members and friends in her living room on Monday. "Why? I just don't understand."

It is the first homicide in memory in Ault, a community of 1,435 that is surrounded by northern Colorado farm fields and is referred to on town signs as "A Unique Little Town."

"A guy blown away over this is incredible," said McCoy, whose department had never received a dog complaint from Griffin.

Griffin apparently complained about the Hammocks' dogs only once to the couple's daughter while they were in Hawaii celebrating their 25th wedding anniversary in September.

"If you don't do something about the barking, I'm going to do something to fix it," Felicia Christopherson said Griffin told her. Christopherson said she was stunned because she didn't think the dogs were a problem.

Griffin, a jeweler who lives in a converted library on Ault's main street, shot and seriously wounded Mojo with a pellet gun on Sunday afternoon because he was angry about the dog's barking, McCoy said.

Hammock, a traffic coordinator at the Wal-Mart distribution center in Loveland, did not immediately realize the dog had been shot. Mojo bolted yelping through the couple's doggie door and collapsed on the kitchen floor as Diane Hammock stood on a ladder painting the room, she said.

The Hammocks rushed Mojo to a veterinary clinic, where an X-ray revealed that a pellet had pierced his lungs and lodged in his side, Diane Hammock said. The couple left Mojo at the vet clinic unsure if he would live.

Back home, Hammock told his wife, "Honey, call the police department so we can make a report" about Mojo getting shot, she recalled. He was going out to park the car, he told her.

Instead, Hammock grabbed a 2-by-2 and went next door to confront Griffin about the dog's wound, McCoy said.

Griffin came to the door with a shotgun, police said. The men apparently quarreled through the door -- an old library door with multiple glass panes -- Griffin on one side with his gun and Hammock on the other with his 3-foot stick.

It appears that Griffin fired at Hammock once through the door, McCoy said, hitting Hammock in the chest from no more than a few feet, the police chief said.

Diane Hammock heard a loud noise that sounded like shattering glass, she said. Her 10-year-old granddaughter heard it, too, and asked, "What was that?"

Hammock went to investigate and found her husband lying on the neighbor's stoop in a pool of blood, with emergency vehicles already arriving from nearby stations.

"He loved animals so much. Our pets were just like our kids," Hammock said of her husband. "I just want people to know he was a good person. He didn't deserve this."

Other stories:
http://www.collegian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/05/3fa8a02a32031
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2607265/detail.html
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,1413,36%257E53%257E1742846,00.html
http://news4colorado.com/topstories/local_story_308124514.html

and this bit from yesterday:

http://www.1310kfka.com/news/
No Charges in Ault Shooting
Tuesday, November 11 2003
Weld County District Attorney Al Dominguez says the state's "Make My Day" law protects an Ault man accused of killing a neighbor in an altercation. In an exclusive interview last night on Newstalk 1310 KFKA's Colorado Live, the DA says he won't prosecute 33-year-old Eric Griffin for the shooting death of 48-year-old Richard Hammock on November 2nd. Griffin shot and killed Hammock on after Hammock allegedly broke a pane of glass in the front door of Griffin's home during an argument. Griffin was released from the Weld County Jail last night.

[Andrew Rothman]

Now that I've read this story, I've changed my mind a bit. If the dog owner was still on the other side of the door, breaking the glass with a stick isn't really sufficient cause to use deadly force.

Tactically and legally, as long as the guy was on the other side of the door, he was not a threat.

This looks like a couple of guys unable to control their tempers. Just a tragedy.

[El Tejon]

Mpayne, many thanks.

So. Hammock grabs a weapon and attempts to enter his neighbor's home over a dog? Unbelievable.

Even doing what I do, I'll never get over the fact that some people lose sight over what they are doing over animals. It may be that I believe that all animals should be shot and have no love for them; however, I have to believe that a person, no matter how long they have had a subscription to Dog Fancy, would know, especially in a state like Red, that breaking into another's home is not conducive to good health.

[newman32]

Yes, the homeowner does sound like a genuine A-hole for shooting the dog. There are different things to do before it should have to come to that. I hope he is charged for his stupid actions too. However, when it came to protecting himself in his home from Mr. Angry, I don't think he did anything wrong.

[Carlos Cabeza]

Emotion clouds better judgement. The guy with the shotgun should probably do some time. If I sat on that jury he would.....................Based on the story the shooter sounds reckless. The dog owner could have handled the situation a hundred different ways but chose to let his hostility cloud his judgement. Sad story for both peoples lives and families.

[mr_dove]

I also posted on the GMA board about this unbalanced report.

While it is true that the dead man was still on the outside of the door, he was breaking the glass and apparently trying to get into the house. I doubt that the law only applies to the interior of your house. A person trying to break into your house or even just on your property could probably be dispatched under this law if you believe you are in any kind of harm.

It was just a dog. He should have waited for the police and not lost his head.

[moa]

GMA can be counted on for anti-gun owner bias. They never fail to live up to that bias.

I sent them an e-mail to that effect.

It seems to me that the shooter is a little guy and maybe the deceased was a larger man, and armed with a club. So, perhaps the shooter was not going to wait until a larger man armed with a club, and a apparently beside himself with rage, gets into the house.

Also, it would appear the shotgun was on the kitchen table. So, I wonder if it was in full view. If so, the deceased may be candidate for a Darwin Award.

I say the shooter did the right thing, and obviously the law agrees. However, if in his shoes, I would have at least displayed the shotgun to the deceased before shooting. And, maybe he did. Who knows?

[teppo-shu]

So did the homeowner/dog shooter shoot THROUGH the glass, striking the deceased? Or did the deceased break the front door glass with the club, and THEN get shot?

BIG, BIG difference, as far as the legalities.:scrutiny:

Either way, an awful lot of stupidity to go around on both sides, though.

[TallPine]

Never bring a stick to a gun fight .... :rolleyes:

[hops]

He may have escaped 'criminal' charges for killing the man. However, he needs to face charges for shooting the dead man's dog.

I suspect he'll also lose big in any civil proceeding against him on both counts.

Dead man should have called the Police and his lawyer - persue criminal and civil actions. Instead he lost his cool and his life. Sad.......... Really sad and needless. :(

[hillbilly]

In Arkansas, once an attacker "breaks the close" or the plane represented by a door or window, all bets are off.

The attacker does not have to be actually inside your residence for deadly force to be legally used. He has to only attempt to get in without your permission.

For my references, I refer to the two attorneys who have both done the "Self Defense And the Law" section of the CCW class I teach.

Of course, actually shooting or not shooting is still a very personal decision that only the victim can make. And different states have different laws.

But in Arkansas, if the guy with the stick broke the the window pane on the front door, that is breaking the close and lethal force woul be legal.

Correct or moral might be something else.

I suspect a big civil lawsuit against the shooter if legal charges fail.

Tactically, I think the shooter made a big mistake in answering the door with shotgun.

He would known why that man would have been at his door, i.e. because he had shot that man's dog with a pellet rifle earlier.

Seeing that man at the door should have resulted in the homeowner calling police, calling for the man to go away, and barricading himself in a safe room or safe area inside the house with the shotgun.

Then, if the man with the two-by-two attacks, homeowner has done everything possible to avoid using deadly force.

hillbilly

[Russ]

GMA and Gibson in particular have a real anti gun bias and have proven it time and again over the years. I no longer watch GMA for that very reason.

As for the confrontation, it sounds to me like someone had a few too many drinks and things got way out of hand. A tradgedy for all involved.

[Werewolf]

Hops said:
I suspect he'll also lose big in any civil proceeding against him on both counts.

Nope.
The CO Make My Day Law insulates the shooter from any civil liability that migh accrue from the shooting.

The same holds true in OK who modeled their MMDL after Co's.

And I agree with that protection. Kill a criminal who's commiting a criminal act against you - why should the criminal's heirs get rich at your expense. It's their relative that screwed the pooch not you.

[Gordon Fink]

[H]e needs to face charges for shooting the dead man’s dog.

Is there any evidence that Griffin actually shot Hammock’s dog? Could it have been another neighbor, local adolescent hooligans, etc.?

Also, consider that Griffin lives in a converted library. Libraries often have glass entry doors, so if Hammock was breaking the glass in the door, he was probably also breaking open the door itself.

Still, it looks like another case of tempers out of control. I wonder if this type of thing would happen as often in a lawful, armed society.

~G. Fink

[SC_shooter]

B-O-O H-O-O.

The jackass should have let the police handle it. If he was coming through the door, he got what he deserved. That's what happens when you let your temper get the best of you.

Paul

[GySgt]

I can see both sides of this issue, I have had neighbors whose dogs barked all night and while shooting those animals may have seemed inviting, I knew that wasn't appropriate behavior. And while I've owned a few dogs over the years, I had a Rottie I thought more of than most people I know. Had someone shot him, I cannot honestly tell you what I would have done..........but I wouldn't have used a stick!!!!

It's unfortunate that some folks don't take responsibility for their pets and that they have no respect for others rights. But it's equally unfortunate that the shooter in this case, didn't use his head !!!

I'm sorry, but he should be punished for being an idiot, if nothing else.:mad:

[moa]

Teppo, the shooter shot through the door. Looks like the door was mostly glass.

[MAKOwner]

We don't know anything about who shot the dog. Maybe the guy did, maybe he didn't. I would think it could easily have been a local teenager or something. The homeowner may indeed have known nothing about this, all of a sudden some totally enraged guy starts breaking down your glass door with a bigass club instantly gaining immediate access (I will never have a mostly glass door for this kind of reason), and people are surprised he got shot? If the guy really shot the dog, and they can somehow prove it then I have no trouble with him being charged with whatever misdemeanor that likely is. But even if he shot the dog that does not give anyone the right to break down his door and beat him to death.

I would have waited for him to get fully inside the house one step, however I would have blasted the crazy SOB too. Some one enraged with a bigass "stick", ie deadly weapon isn't going to be welcome in my home, especially not after just knocking my front door down with the intent of getting in and beating the hell outta me...

I would think this guy was really in fear for his life, and he was being attacked, I don't care for what reason. I would be really curious to know if he even really shot the dog, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he did not... And likewise I wouldn't be surprised if he really did, but he still has a right to defend his home.

All the fault here lies with the guy who tried to attack his neighbor after breaking down his front door, obviously enraged. Very unfortunate but he is the person who escalated this situation into a life or death matter, not the shooter...

[motorep]

The "stick" being wielded by the deceased has been reported by law enforcement variously as being a stick, a pole, a 2X4, and a club. The shooter warned the deceased that he had called the police and showed him, through the glass, that he was armed. He told the deceased that he was not coming out of the house. The deceased threatened to burn down the house and smashed the glass, trying to gain entry. In the same circumstances I would hope, as the homeowner, that I would retreat, but the way the story is reported sure has a bearing on how you feel about the shooting, no?

[Moparmike]

I dont know about yall, but I love my dog like she is my own child. If someone shoots my dog, they WILL be answering to ME unless my head clears up PDQ. I consider my dog a member of my family, and will act accordingly if someone trys to injure her or any other member of my family.:mad:

That said, a clearer head would have been a better weapon than what he chose to arm himself with. The shooter should be charged with the dog-shooting, and punished with the maximum.

[motorep]

ps- local DA says there's no evidence, no witnesses, to link the shooter with the dog/pellet gun incident so no charges will be filed on that issue.

[capt_happypants]

We've talked about this incident at Blast-O-Rama, and most people still consider this shooting to be marginal.

The defender shot the attacker while he was outside the home. If the bad guy had taken one more step into the residence, the majority of my customers would not have a problem with the shot.

In my mind, the attacker displayed ability and intent, but the question of whether the deceased had a legitimate opportunity to injure or kill the homeowner remains unanswered.

[Jeff OTMG]

I saw it as well. IF the guy shot the dog then the owners should have called the police. I think that we could use the term 'vigilante' to accurately describe the dog owner and when you bring a club to the gunfight you lose.

[Pebcac]

I'm not shooting anybody through a door unless they're clearly armed with a firearm and actively engaged in either an attempt to get in or firing through the door. A guy wailing on my front door with a stick and breaking glass gets warned that the PD is on the way and he best not step inside.

If he then steps through the door, all deals are off. And so's the safety.

Honestly, this looks to me like a couple of hotheads who one-upped each other until someone died. What a tragically stupid thing.

[moa]

Incidentally, the shooter and deceased, who were neighbors, knew each other to some degree. Apparently the deceased had installed a new furnace in the shooter's house.