?? Mosin-Nagant ??


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CPLofMARINES
December 31, 2009, 05:09 PM
Happy New Year, everyone.
I just purchased an M38 Mosin-Nagant for 149.99 @ Dunham's. All matching
serial #'s, from what I could tell, very clean. The manual it came with
was not very detailed with info. My ? is can you dry fire them. I am sure
I will have a few more ??'s in the near future. I would really appreciate
any input.


Semper Fi!!

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rondog
December 31, 2009, 05:17 PM
Sure, you can dryfire just about anything, but it's not recommended for .22 rimfires.

Congrats on the M38, I just bought one too! A 1943. The stock finish is nasty, but all numbers match and the metal looks great. I'll refinish the wood anyway. Haven't shot it yet, paid $139 at Big 5 Sporting Goods, probably the same as your Dunham's.

If it has this groove milled on the stock, it's an M44 stock, which seems to be very common on M38's. That groove is for the M44's bayonet to lay in. And has it been counterbored? I hear that most have, mine is about 1/4".

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN2728.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN2696.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN2697.jpg

Cosmoline
December 31, 2009, 05:21 PM
You can dry fire the Mosin, just make extra sure it's empty with an empty mag. I always pinky-finger check the chamber on my Mosins as well as a visual check.

It's also a good idea to practice working the safety. Once you learn how to engage it it's pretty neat and about the safest safety ever designed.

ineedmoney
December 31, 2009, 06:37 PM
my safety is such a pain in the ..........finger to put on how can i fix it?
im kinda a little guy but i think iam strong for my size , even my friend that is 6'4 has a hard time getting it on safety, he is very strong, bench like....i don't kno atleast 250lbs. anyway anyone kno how i can fix my safety?


i dont think you can hurt nothing by dry firing....except air

19-3Ben
December 31, 2009, 07:03 PM
Forget the safety. Lost cause on Mosins. Notoriously difficult.
the standard answer on gunboards is:
"Iz Russian gun. Iz shoot. No safety."

CPL enjoy the M38. I love my Mosins but lemme tell ya, those M38's kick like mad. Even worse than my M44's.

(that being said, I totally want to get an M38. It's the only major category of Mosin I have not yet owned.)

rondog
December 31, 2009, 07:06 PM
my safety is such a pain in the ..........finger to put on how can i fix it?
im kinda a little guy but i think iam strong for my size , even my friend that is 6'4 has a hard time getting it on safety, he is very strong, bench like....i don't kno atleast 250lbs. anyway anyone kno how i can fix my safety?


I bought one of those safeties that's been modified with a ring welded onto it, and it works great! Looks like the Swiss K31. Still can't get my fat finger into it, but it works a lot better! They're on eBay and Gunbroker.

cz85cmbt
December 31, 2009, 07:11 PM
I dry fire everything except older military rifles because because the firing pins can break, I think it's because they are in many cases longer than modern pins and have no way to slow down during dry firing. Stopping them so abruptly can get them to break. The other thing is you can dry fire modern rimfires, they have a firing pin stop to prevent the pin from hitting the breach face.

ineedmoney
December 31, 2009, 07:13 PM
i think i will just keep 4 rounds in it, like i been doing, no safety for me, lock and load when ready to shoot, unless iam hunting then i will just have to be real careful

CPLofMARINES
December 31, 2009, 07:15 PM
rondog, yes it is an M44 stock. counterbored, do you mean re-rifled. the 1/4
inch gap you speak of, is that @ the crown where the grooves start.


Semper Fi!!

mannac
December 31, 2009, 07:16 PM
I actually like the safety on my 91/30 for when I'm not using it. It's idiot proof :D

rondog
December 31, 2009, 07:27 PM
rondog, yes it is an M44 stock. counterbored, do you mean re-rifled. the 1/4
inch gap you speak of, is that @ the crown where the grooves start.


Well, not re-rifled, more like drilled out. Old rifles like that tend to have the rifling worn down at the muzzle, from years of vigorous bore cleaning with steel cleaning rods, which affect accuracy. Part of the re-arsenaling process would be to bore out, or counterbore, the first 1/4" to 1" of the muzzle, to clean out the worn area back to where the rifling is still good and sharp.

In the goodie bags that come with most surplus Mosins, a lot of them have a steel cap with a hole in it, along with the other tools. That cap was intended to go over the muzzle when the soldier was running the cleaning rod in and out, to prevent the rifling wear at the muzzle.

Here's a photo of my M38's muzzle, you can see how it's been bored out about 1/4" deep right at the end.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b150/rinselman/guns/DSCN2720.jpg

Cosmoline
December 31, 2009, 07:34 PM
Forget the safety. Lost cause on Mosins. Notoriously difficult.

Nonsense. The Mosin safety is a piece of cake. Here's how you do it. Grasp the knob with your right hand, left hand gripping the firearm and buttstock braced comfortably. Rather than trying to twist it with your wrist muscles, keep your wrist locked and pull back and over with your arm muscles.

If a fat old lawyer can do it, a Marine can do it.

Remember to use your hand to cycle the bolt, not your finger tips. Smack it up and back with the palm, down and lock with the base of your thumb.

Nicodemus38
December 31, 2009, 09:30 PM
never saw anywhere russian soldiers, or anyone sense, used the safety in combat. rifle wasnt meant to be loaded until you went into combat. ie, once someone starts shooting at you, pull bolt back, insert 5 cartridges, close bolt, shoot, repeat.

mannac
December 31, 2009, 10:10 PM
Of course, but we're not in a war zone here.

Yellowtail3
December 31, 2009, 11:13 PM
The safety works, you just have to use correct technique. If you're right-handed, here's how: hold rifle at port arms - put butt of rifle inside right elbow, against bicep, with right forearm across top of stock - grasp safety w/fingers of right hand - rifle is braced w/butt against your right bicep - pull back and rotate safety.

makes much more sense once you've done it. YOu're using forearm muscles -

i use it when walking in/out of woods -

elmerfudd
December 31, 2009, 11:46 PM
The problem people have with Mosin safeties is that they try to engage them using the muscles in their fingers. Just grab the safety knob with your index and middle fingers like it was a bowstring. Then pull it back using your arm and back muscles like you were drawing a bow or a slingshot.

rangerruck
December 31, 2009, 11:57 PM
good get; m38's are starting to dry up. should have at least 3 serial numbers on them; receiver bridge, bolt, bottom of magwell. See if it is counter bored, look down the muzzle, to see if it looks smooth for about an inch, and then rifleing starts. if no counter bored, then possible it is unfired.
No worries, the m38 is a great all around rifle; lots of bullets out there; new and milsurp. just clean with hot water, after you fire milsurp, you can use window cleaner as well, but hot water cuts salts as well as anything.
to me, I like the rifles better than most 308 stuff out there; it can take a beatdown, it fires a hot round, they come from 147 grain, all the way up to about 205 grainers, the sweet spot for heat, speed, and accuracy should be between 170 and 180 grains.
I like the 185's from brown bear, in hollow points; very nice accuracy.
Also, if you get a chance, fire it at night a few times, and take some video; they are total flame throwers.
Everything you wanted to know about mosins are on 2 sites;
check there for your trigger job, and to cut Sticky Bolt Syndrome, which may
or may not effect you;
http://www.surplusrifle.com/russianmosin189130/index.asp
http://7.62x54r.net/


oh yeah, did you get the green dog collar sling, with the leather straps
on the ends? Cuz' if not, then that alone is the best completeing detail of the
mosin. They can be had for about 20 bucks, and they are mostly brannew.

Arbor
January 1, 2010, 02:22 AM
I like my mosin safety. It is very secure and easy to use once you get used to it. I have killed three deer with my mosin, the safety was never a problem.

stubbicatt
January 1, 2010, 08:47 AM
Good for you! I liked my M38, but it was not a good example and eventually was sold.

Hope you enjoy your rifle.

Brimic
January 1, 2010, 12:10 PM
Mosin safeties are very easy to use with the technique Cosmoline describes above.

You aren't going to hurt them dry firing, the only milsurp that I've ever harmed dry firing was a Yugo M48- due to poor machining/heat treat on the bolt/firing pin.

JR47
January 1, 2010, 01:51 PM
If it has this groove milled on the stock, it's an M44 stock, which seems to be very common on M38's. That groove is for the M44's bayonet to lay in. And has it been counterbored? I hear that most have, mine is about 1/4".

Sir, the groove that you depict is for a grip. The Model 1944 stock has an additional groove aft of the muzzle for the bayonet to fit into.

http://www.targetrichenvironment.net/wordpress-2%5B1%5D.0.3/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/m44.JPG

tigeroldlone
January 1, 2010, 04:33 PM
I only laode 4rounds in my 91/30, I can not grab the safety becuase of the scope I have on it. The smith did a great job with the handle not one of those ati pos.

Cosmoline
January 1, 2010, 11:33 PM
I was sold on the Mosin safety a few years ago when I was hiking in the Chugach, 91/30 slung with a round in the chamber, safety on. I was walking across an old bridge, slipped on some algae and did a pratfall. The rifle was launched high up and then fell down to the river rocks below. The rifle was fine and the safety didn't budge.

Sock Puppet
January 1, 2010, 11:49 PM
That's good to know, Cosmoline. I feel pretty secure with the design of the safety on my Mosins, but never tested them in quite that way. :)

TimboKhan
January 2, 2010, 02:40 AM
Forget the safety. Lost cause on Mosins. Notoriously difficult.

Thats the reputation and even the experience of a lot of Mosin shooters, but as Cosmo said, it's a matter of technique.

MD_Willington
January 2, 2010, 03:00 AM
I picked one up for myself for Christmas too.. it has a war time stock, not an M44 stock.

I actually found the safety somewhat easy to use...?? Not sure why... odd man out I guess.

WardenWolf
January 2, 2010, 03:37 AM
As a left-handed shooter, I immediately gave up on the Mosin safety. And the Arisaka safety. A lot of these bolt back safeties were designed to be twisted in a particular way that really only works if you're right-handed. You have a beautiful M38 there. Enjoy her!

CPLofMARINES
January 2, 2010, 12:08 PM
Folks, thank you for all the info!! Yes, it is counterbored about a half inch.
Fired 20 rds yesterday, love it, not as bad as I was told (recoil). Actually
it was an early bday gift for my 8 yr old son. He fired it as well, did really
well, he said it kicks alot, but that so far is the largest cal. he has fired so
far. Don't let me forget to mention, preaching and teaching gun safety
since they were 4 yrs old, they have fired my AK, AR, 22lr and .410.



Semper Fi!!

rangerruck
January 2, 2010, 03:13 PM
1 more thing; if you wanna tame the recoil, and if it is for an adult- go get a butler creek rubberized slip on pad SMALL SIZE!!!! It will look too tiny, and be tight as heck, but once you get it all the way on, it looks like it was made for this rifle!!! they should be about 8 bucks...

Palehorseman
January 2, 2010, 08:26 PM
I am an old codger of three score and ten who shoots lefty, but using the MN safety is no problemo for me. I Just grasp the safety knob with a good left hand grip, pulling straight back while pushing rifle forward with right hand and twist said knob to the left. No muss, no fuss, and with minimal effort.

CPLofMARINES
January 3, 2010, 06:27 PM
rangerruck, yes I got the sling. about the trigger job you mentioned. my trigger has alot of play, front to rear. whether it is cocked, uncocked, safety on, safety off. is this normal ? Also, thank you for websites!!


Semper Fi!!!

TehK1w1
January 3, 2010, 06:37 PM
On the subject of dry firing, nearly all centerfire guns are fine being dry-fired. However, there are exceptions, like the CZ-52 pistol.

Mosin triggers seem to vary quite a bit in pull weight, tolerances, smoothness, etc. I wouldn't worry about it. Also, the Mosin action has a two-stage trigger, so a long, light trigger pull before the second stage with its heavier pull is normal.

mannac
January 3, 2010, 06:40 PM
Every Mosin I've touched has had a lot of play in the trigger. Just the way they are I guess.

CPLofMARINES
January 3, 2010, 07:02 PM
Hey folks! something else i noticed while cleaning it after 20 rds. of russian
mil-surp, the head of the bolt was not very dirty. does this have something to do with it being a rimmed cartridge?



Semper Fi!!

GunsAmerica Fan
January 3, 2010, 07:12 PM
Very important with an M38 is to not buy a large quantity of surplus ammo before you try the rounds in the gun. I bought, and still have several cases of the one that comes in the big green spam can with a twist key, and the romanian stuff that comes in blue boxes with silver tips. You will read about "sticky bolt" syndrome, but it is no mystery. This ammo is extra hot machinegun ammo and was not meant for the tighter tolerances of an infantry rifle. I later got some slightly more expensive Hungarian ammo that comes in brown boxes inside a plastic bag (like us 5.56) and it works flawlessly, whereas with the other stuff I had to literally hammer the bolt open and punch the empty shell out from the front with a rod.

And don't bother with the "stripper clips". They don't work at all.

rangerruck
January 4, 2010, 01:44 AM
yes, those triggers will deff have some play in them, but if you do the trigger job; the simplest trigger job on a rifle ever is the Mosin, you can take up a lot of that play, and get your trigger pull down pretty low.

JR47
January 4, 2010, 02:15 PM
Anything designated as Heavy Ball was originally meant for MG use.

TimboKhan
January 4, 2010, 02:40 PM
And don't bother with the "stripper clips". They don't work at all.

I hate to be the contrarian, but I have never had a problem with the stripper clips. More correctly, I have never had a problem with Russian stripper clips. There are plenty on the market that do not work worth a damn, but I have yet to find an actual Russian stripper clip that doesn't work. Provided you have good clips, it shouldn't be hard to load once you know the technique. Rather than explain the technique myself, here is a video of some dude demonstrating the proper way to load a Mosin with a stripper clip: Linky (http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v252/blacst/Midwesternshoot/MidWestShoot2/?action=view&current=MidWesternShoot2054.flv)

devildog32713
January 4, 2010, 07:37 PM
I want to buy a Mosin-nagant, 91/30, tell me if this is any good: http://http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_1891_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle.html

GunsAmerica Fan
January 4, 2010, 07:46 PM
Damn Timbo. That for sure doesn't work with the ones I have. Thanks for the video I am going to look for some. Who'd a thunk it that a bent piece of steel could have variations that matter that much.

GunsAmerica Fan
January 4, 2010, 07:47 PM
Devildog that is a great price on those guns if they really are in that condition. Jump on it!

This is a proper link his isn't working.
http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/Russian_1891_30_7.62x54R_Mosin_Nagant_Rifle.html

mannac
January 4, 2010, 07:56 PM
Devil, it depends on what shipping and FFL costs are. You can pick them up for $85-$100 around here locally.

Caliper_RWVA
January 4, 2010, 07:58 PM
I hate to be the contrarian, but I have never had a problem with the stripper clips. More correctly, I have never had a problem with Russian stripper clips.

I had a set of steel clips that wouldn't work for anything. Tried bending them outwards until the rounds would barely stay in there - unless you were trying to put them in the rifle! Then they would just jam up and go nowhere.

Got a set of brass ones (no Russian markings, so I assume they are repro) and these work fine with the technique usually shown on YouTube.

Avtomat Kalashnikova
January 4, 2010, 08:15 PM
It's also a good idea to practice working the safety. Once you learn how to engage it it's pretty neat and about the safest safety ever designed.

i didn't even know mosins had a safety, where is it and how is it engaged?

Cosmoline
January 4, 2010, 08:36 PM
It's the back knob on the bolt. You pull back and rotate a few degrees to your left, then ease it down onto the left side of the receiver. It physically locks the entire back part of the bolt as well as the firing pin with the full force of the mainspring.

As far as stripper clips, the best are the Tikka steel ones shaped to the cartridges. Other steel clips don't work at all. Look for the "T" in the circle and triangle. But you have to know how to use them. Load them in a wing formation in the clip, then ram them down using the top cartridge as a rammer. There's actually a simulation video game that shows this technique really well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk6URooj9W0

Avtomat Kalashnikova
January 4, 2010, 09:27 PM
^ thanks a lot

Man With A Gun
January 4, 2010, 09:56 PM
STOP! You had better get rid of that weapon and fast! If you begin to dry fire it the entire system will fail in about 300 years.

These things were made for heavy duty and lots of it.

The Russian people were not combat fighters and EVERYONE had a buried Mosin with tins of ammo. If anyone could put the Mosin through hard times it is Russia and its common people.

Mosin's work. They are robust and shoot and shoot and shoot.

Enjoy your excellent rifle and not to worry.

CPLofMARINES
January 6, 2010, 08:09 PM
Thank you everyone for your help!! Now I am thinking of buying another.
Just like Glock, you can't own just one.

The nightmare will end, ONE TERM.



Semper FI!!

mannac
January 6, 2010, 08:21 PM
Thank you everyone for your help!! Now I am thinking of buying another.
Just like Glock, you can't own just one.

But there's so many variations!

dobeman
April 2, 2010, 06:38 PM
hey everyone, just found this site reading about mosin-nagants :)

I picked up a Mosin in a local pawn shop for $138. I knew enough to know it was a Mosin, but I had no idea what type - I took a chance and just bought it. Since have learned it is a M38. Counterbored. Not sure if correct M38 stock or not - I need to check that. The bore was dark. I cleaned it first, took it out and shot it, then cleaned it again. Used up a large pack of patches :) Bore brightened up pretty good and seems to be in good shape.

Has anyone else checked headspace on their Mosins? I bought a no-go gauge and my M38 passsed ok. I've learned I should have really used a Field gauge first - passing field gauge good for milsurp rifles. But I guess even better it passed the no-go. I have not run a go gauge on it.

anyway, what a hoot to shoot. Even with a limbsaver, I got a workout :)

Caliper_RWVA
April 3, 2010, 01:18 AM
Sir, the groove that you depict is for a grip. The Model 1944 stock has an additional groove aft of the muzzle for the bayonet to fit into.

http://www.targetrichenvironment.net/wordpress-2%5B1%5D.0.3/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/m44.JPG

No, that is the bayonet groove. The grip is below it.

As far as the stripper clips. Don't touch the steel ones - total junk. Got some brass ones off Ebay and they work fine.

Beware - they are like potato chips! I had one, now have five. Still want a M38 or M91/59. If you like the M38, you will love any of the Finnish models. Those guys really put some time into the rifle. Excellent triggers, good sights. It truly is addictive!

RevDerb
April 4, 2010, 03:28 PM
What do you use for ammo when taking deer? I expect some sort of soft point? Privi, Winchester? Other?

GD
April 4, 2010, 03:40 PM
I have never had a problem using the mosin safety. It is quiet and very effective. I am not that strong either.

rangerruck
April 4, 2010, 10:17 PM
when hunting , I really like the silver bear and brown bear; one is a soft point, one is a hollow point. They are both between 170 and 185 grains, and have good accuracy, and do the job very well.

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