45 schofield in 45 long colt revolvers/rifles - any advantages?


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Leaky Waders
December 31, 2009, 09:36 PM
Hi,

I've been reading on 45 long colt and noticed that the 45 schofield can be used in revolvers and rifles chambered for 45 long colt. Kind of like 22 long rifle/22 longs or 357/38 special.

So...if I'm using moderate loads in the 45 long colt, does it make sense to just use 45 schoflield brass so I use more of the case volume per load?

Also, if it does make sense, then is there any advantage to using the 45 schofield loads in a model 92 style lever action? Like, could you hold more rounds of schofield versus long colt?

Do most people who reload 45 long colt also have 45 schofield brass and dies?

I haven't purchased a model 92 yet but am looking hard at them, trying to decide on that or a P1840 to use instead of my chunky vaquero.

Thanks for your expertise.

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ClarkEMyers
December 31, 2009, 11:57 PM
Advantage is that it works better with speed loaders - not likely to matter
Disadvantage is cleaning a carbon ring
In your particular firearm there may be an advantage from higher load density - there may be a disadvantage from longer bullet jump through the cylinder which is a little large to guide the bullet so the bullet may - or may not - hit the forcing cone a little off coming from the shorter case. Try it and see how things balance out.

Old Fuff
January 1, 2010, 12:01 AM
In a .45 Colt-chambered revolver there is no advantage to using the shorter round. In a tube-fed rifle or carbine you might be able to squeeze in 1 or 2 additional rounds, but no more if that. Hardly worth the trouble.

Randy1911
January 1, 2010, 01:24 AM
I use to shoot SASS/CAS. In my 1892 rifle the Schofield would not chamber because of the face for the bolt. They worked fine in Ruger Blackhawks and Marlin 1894 Cowboy rifle though. The rim on the 45 Schofield is aboutr .010" larger than the 45 Long Colt. In my Marlin rifle it would hold 10 rounds of 45 Long Colt but 14 Schofields.

You still have to clean the chamber after shooting Schofields just like 38's in a 357 Mag.

RCBS makes a set of Cowboy dies that are labeled 45 Colt/45 Schofield. You need a different shell holder though.

zxcvbob
January 1, 2010, 01:34 AM
In a double-action revolver, the .45 S&W (a.k.a Schofield) has a bigger rim and the ejector is less likely to jump over it. In a single action, no real advantage that I know of.

Sport45
January 1, 2010, 04:03 AM
Is the Schofield rim small enough to allow loading adjacent cylinders in most revolvers?

highlander 5
January 1, 2010, 09:46 AM
I fire Schofield ammo that I reload from Starline brass in my 45 Colts and with the exception of my Redhawk there have been no problems. The 45 Colt Redhawk uses a different extractor than the 44 Mag even though the rim dimensions are only a couple of thousandths difference.

Jim Watson
January 1, 2010, 10:26 AM
Is the Schofield rim small enough to allow loading adjacent cylinders in most revolvers?

Yes, but. The Schofield brass you get now is really the Government case with small enough rim to load adjacent chambers even in the really quite compact SAA.
BUT you can run into interference with the ratchet on a Ruger. It is a routine gunsmithing job (by a knowledgeable gunsmith, not the hardware store parts changer) to clearance the ratchet for the larger rims.


The main advantage of the Schofield case in modern use is less air space over light CAS loads.

If you want to take that all the way, look into the .45 Cowboy Special, a round with the rim of .45 Colt and the length of .45 ACP. Works easy in revolvers, lever action lifters have to be modified to feed it.

Leaky Waders
January 1, 2010, 11:31 AM
Right now I'm using the Lee carbide 3 die set for my 45 colt loads. If I buy a new shell holder to accomodate the 45 schofield could I use the same the dies on 45 schofield brass?

I'm using mainly starline brass with some odds and ins winchester in 45 long colt in the model 25 and ruger old vaquero and have no problem ejecting rounds.

Old Fuff
January 1, 2010, 11:33 AM
I once tried to talk Marlin into making a carbine chambered in .45 ACP, but the discussion went nowhere. Maybe SASS will have better luck.

rcmodel
January 1, 2010, 12:13 PM
It's possible some lever-actions won't feed the shorter cartridge.
Winchesters in particular are very cartridge length sensitive.
You might have to seat to the longer OAL of the .45 Colt to get them to feed.
If you have to do that, you gave up the advantage of less case capacity because you are right back to where you started with the .45 Colt case.

And like Randy1911 said in post #4, the larger rim may not even fit a 92 bolt face at all.

In all, I don't think there is a big enough advantage to mess with it unless you are shooting CAS and are willing to modify a 92 to work with them.

rc

Leaky Waders
January 1, 2010, 04:48 PM
OK...last idea concerning this big empty space in the 45 colt...could one just load the lead deeper...like flush with the case mouth to accomodate the air space? Or would that cause pressure problems?

rcmodel
January 1, 2010, 04:51 PM
There is no problem with the air space if you use suitable powder.

8.5 grains of Unique & a 250 grain LSWC shoots just great!

Deep seating to the case mouth is fraught with problems.
Such as no load data for that, hard to load in the chambers of a six-gun, won't feed in a lever-action, etc, etc, etc.

Forgadabout!
It's not a problem in the first place.

50 gazillion rounds are loaded by the factory's to normal length every year.
If it was a problem, they would have done something about it when smokeless powder was invented.

rc

Jim Watson
January 1, 2010, 07:27 PM
Few CAS tenderfeet care for a full power load. They buy 200, 180, 160 !!! grain .45 bullets and use powderpuff powder charges. Then the airspace matters and shorter shells are an advantage.

they would have done something about it when smokeless powder was invented.

Actually, they did. The old loading line at Frankfort Arsenal had the habit of occasionally putting in a double charge when loading the big rim .45 Colt for the 1909 New Service. This was not good when Bullseye was the usual smokeless powder. They asked DuPont for a bulkier powder to overflow if doubled, like Trail Boss now. That could not quite be done with the processes of the day but they did come up with a powder that would not demolish the gun with a double charge... usually... the first time. It was known as the "rescue" powder and cataloged RSQ. Phil Sharpe described in more detail.

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