Best LEGAL full auto conversion method


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Georgiaboy1
January 1, 2010, 10:18 PM
I recently purchased a MPA Cobray M-10/9mm, and would like to k ow the best method to convert it legally to full auto. A gunsmith friend has suggested 4 or 5 methods including a full auto bolt assembly kit. Any suggestions?

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Zach S
January 1, 2010, 10:27 PM
I suggest you don't ask your gunsmith buddy for advice...

No legal way to do it. After 5/19/86 no "new" machineguns could be transferred to civilians, which is why a $1,200 M16 sells for about 15,000 bucks now.

R.W.Dale
January 1, 2010, 10:45 PM
+11111000000

this gunsmithing friend of yours is suggeting something that will get you AND him thrown in "federal pound you in the #|#^+ prision"

Aran
January 1, 2010, 10:58 PM
Just to add another hat, zero. Zero ways. None.

jobu07
January 1, 2010, 11:01 PM
Buy a registered sear if they are available for Ingrams. Very popular with HK's and very legal.

For example:

http://www.gunsamerica.com/976862816/Guns/Rifles/Class-3/Class-3-Any-Other-Weapon/AR_15_Registered_Drop_in_Auto_Sear.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/986853428/Guns/Pistols/Class-3-Pistols/Class-3-Subguns/HK_MP5K_Fleming_Sear_Gun.htm

http://www.gunsamerica.com/978653549/Guns/Rifles/Class-3-Rifles/Class-3-Subguns/HK_51.htm

All three of those weapons have registered drop in sears. The sear is the machinegun and the rifle/pistol/sbr/whatever is just that.

taliv
January 1, 2010, 11:01 PM
you can buy a legal full-auto for about $3000, plus the $200 stamp. they're one of the cheapest FA to buy

Tommygunn
January 1, 2010, 11:02 PM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What those guys said. WAAAAAAY illegal!

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 1, 2010, 11:05 PM
Are there drop-in auto sears for MAC-10s? I suppose you could look into that.

As full-auto MAC-10s where going for about $3500 last time I looked, it's probably just as cheap to buy one as get the registered parts for a conversion.

Bubbles
January 1, 2010, 11:33 PM
While the DIAS for the MAC-10 exists, they are very rare and more expensive than registered receiver guns.

Daveboone
January 2, 2010, 08:21 AM
Firearms that are made to be semi automatic are not built to withstand full auto beatings. They may work for a short time, but it will ruin the gun regardless. Back to everyone elses comments also....not smart to do, and not smart to publicize.

Sam1911
January 2, 2010, 10:11 AM
Firearms that are made to be semi automatic are not built to withstand full auto beatings.

Well, this is just silliness. Generally, a firearm that can handle being fired a lifetime's worth of rounds will handle being fired that number of rounds quickly or slowly. I wouldn't want to trust a gun that would actually be beaten to death because it was fired quickly.

Further, most firearms where this is under discussion (MACs, Uzis, M-16s, AKs, etc.) were originally designed to fire in full-auto mode, and have been very minorly redesigned to be sold as civilian semi-auto copies. So to say that they won't stand up to the type of fire they were designed to handle is illogical. And this doesn't just apply to "assault rifles" or "machine guns." The Glock 18 and Berertta 93R and other machine pistols are substantively the same gun as their more common semi-auto cousins -- and they hold up just fine firing at quite startlingly high rates of fire.

Even further, modern competitive shooters often push their handguns to cycle at rates approaching those of some of the slower firing sub machine guns, with the added stress of operating the fire control group for each shot (instead of simply holding the trigger back).

So...what is it about a quality firearm that can't handle firing rapidly?

Anyway, agreed that there is is no way to take the OP's gun and alter it to fire full-auto, legally. But, if the OP has the funds to afford the ammo to play with that kind of thing, the $3-3500 to purchase one on the up-&-up is no big deal.

-Sam

divemedic
January 2, 2010, 11:07 AM
Further, most firearms where this is under discussion (MACs, Uzis, M-16s, AKs, etc.) were originally designed to fire in full-auto mode, and have been very minorly redesigned to be sold as civilian semi-auto copies.

The semiauto version of the MAC, the UZI, and many other submachine guns is a closed bolt weapon. The full auto is an open bolt weapon. I would not call that a minor design change.

Jorg Nysgerrig
January 2, 2010, 11:20 AM
If you have a concern over the poster being a troll, please just use the report function. There is no need to post in the thread.

essayons21
January 2, 2010, 12:20 PM
It is entirely conceivable that someone new to shooting and less versed in the legal issues would believe there would be a legal way to convert a semi to a full auto. In fact, there are a few ways, but all are more money and work than simply buying a registered FA MAC-10.

Keep in mind that most of us have been dealing with firearms laws for so long, they seem to make sense. However, to an outside observer or a new shooter, firearms laws are confusing, complex, and nonsensical. The field of civilian FA is a perfect example.

Aran
January 2, 2010, 12:52 PM
Firearms laws are confusing, complex, and nonsensical by design.

Sam1911
January 2, 2010, 02:25 PM
The semiauto version of the MAC, the UZI, and many other submachine guns is a closed bolt weapon. The full auto is an open bolt weapon. I would not call that a minor design change.

Touche. However, I stand by the point I was making -- that none of these changes (minor or major) make the guns fragile and susceptible to shooting themselves to pieces when fired rapidly.

Agreed?

-Sam

brassdog
January 2, 2010, 02:44 PM
Not to mention the associated costs of ammunition when one is feeding a full auto gun. It can be very expensive. With all the legal hurdles and associated costs inherent to the registered full auto guns I'm not sure that is really all that much fun.
It it were me, I think I'll stick to semi autos.

CoRoMo
January 2, 2010, 03:37 PM
No legal way to do it.


That is not correct. Man, there is a ton of rubbish in this thread. No semi auto is capable of handling FA fire? Yeah, okay, sure.:rolleyes:

But nobody has assumed that the OP might be a class III dealer 07/02 SOT. He could convert that gun to full auto if he were. I can't imagine that he'd be asking the question if he were though.:scrutiny: Maybe the OP is not from America. He could be from the Republic of Georgia.:scrutiny:

Otherwise, become a class 3 manufacturer and convert that badboy to FA.:D

This, of course, is a lengthy, intrusive, and costly way to convert your gun. And the ATF won't just slip you the license unless they believe you're going into business.:)

jakk280rem
January 2, 2010, 05:20 PM
Keep in mind that most of us have been dealing with firearms laws for so long, they seem to make sense.

i am still scratching my head over 922r. can i buy the thing or not? scratch.

HOME DEPOT GEORGE
January 2, 2010, 06:15 PM
This might be your only option but isn't legal in all states. http://www.franksgunstuff.com/wvss/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=bdfdb3aaba1b712f929ed99c67034db8 The hellfire is kind of fun to fool with on a mini 14.

divemedic
January 2, 2010, 06:21 PM
Sam: Agreed :)

Walkalong
January 2, 2010, 06:45 PM
It is entirely conceivable that someone new to shooting and less versed in the legal issues would believe there would be a legal way to convert a semi to a full auto.Yep. If all they do is watch TV, they might think you can buy full auto stuff at the dime store. :cuss:

This is dangerous territory if you don't fully understand all the legal stuff that goes with it, which I don't.

Too bad they are not more available, cheaper, and less hassle. Full auto would be fun now and again, but expensive to shoot these days.

SharpsDressedMan
January 2, 2010, 06:49 PM
You will have to become a Class II manufacturer to make any full auto guns that are not already on the governments NFA books, this is the law since 1986. Then, those newly manufactured guns are for police/military, or a single dealer sample only, that would have to be disposed of if you ever get rid of your license. They are called post-86 samples. You can no longer make machineguns for yourself. You CAN still make suppressors, grenade launchers, short barreled shotguns and rifles, AFTER you pay the $200 for each, and get approval first. See the BATF website for further info.

glockman19
January 2, 2010, 06:59 PM
Bump firing is the only legal rapid fire method I know of that is legal. No modifications.

As soon as you add even a rubber band you are in trouble. 10 years if I am correct and you will lose your right to own a firearm forever.

Zach S
January 2, 2010, 07:21 PM
It is entirely conceivable that someone new to shooting and less versed in the legal issues would believe there would be a legal way to convert a semi to a full auto.
I disagree. Most people dont know civilians can legally acquire NFA items, and automatically assume they're illegal.

Aside from those who post at online forums, a lot of shooters assume the same thing.

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