Hk91 cetme


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FuzzyBunny
January 2, 2010, 10:06 PM
I have a pre 1980 HK91 marked CETME and made in I think Spain.

What is the differences in the older HKs marked CETME and the CETMEs out in the past 15 years? This was new in box and came with all the HK literature but it says CETME on it and I have always wondered.

I know the HK mags fit like a glove but I'm also wondering if the G3 mags will work/fit?

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SaxonPig
January 2, 2010, 10:19 PM
As I understand it, the CETME (acronym for some Spanish government agency) was developed by German engineers living in Spain (go figure) with input from H&K. The CETME came first then H&K brought out their rifles which were virtually identical.

I am guessing that maybe the very early H&Ks bore the CETME name for licensing purposes or maybe just because CETME was better known at the time.

I have a 91 that was made around 1979-1980 and CETME does not appear anywhere on it.

nalioth
January 2, 2010, 10:58 PM
Do you have pix?

To my knowledge, no HK product has ever borne the name "CETME".

N003k
January 2, 2010, 11:29 PM
Er....if memory serves me correctly, and the source I'm basing it off of is correct...

WWII-> Germany Loses-> Various engineers head various places-> Some go to spain, get hired by gov't make gun-> Gun becomes CETME-> HK likes it, buys it out, renames it the G3/HK91.

Obviously thats horribly vague, but the general idea as I know it was Germans designed it in Spain, where it was eventually bought out by HK.

So, the question is, are you assuming it's an HK91 because it looks/works like one, or does the thing have actual HK markings and such on it?

If the history as I know it is wrong, I'm sure someone will be along soon enough to correct me!

nalioth
January 3, 2010, 12:37 AM
The CETME design was not "bought out" by H&K.

It was licensed to Germany by the Spanish government.

The Cetme modelo "C" and the G3 rifles are both direct descendants of the Cetme modelo "B".

Jon Coppenbarger
January 3, 2010, 06:22 AM
was it imported by mars? if it is you have a nice rifle. they book a little less than the H&K 91's butt are allot harder to find. Do not confuse them with the ones made in the last 10 years as the ones marked century cai or what ever are just part guns with a aftermarket reciever done by a few companys.

example a cai reciever rifle value really is in the 500 to 800 range and a mars imported rifle over 2k in good shape.

FuzzyBunny
January 3, 2010, 08:43 AM
I'll have to dig them out and check for any HK markings. I do remember the words Modello and Spain. The paperwork with it is all HK.

The welding on the rear sight is very professional. The gun appraiser valued it at 2,700 in the late 90s and told me to expect it to go up because of the year and origin plus the condition. This was on the condition I never put a scratch on it. Then he went into great detail about the barrel hammer forging machine that he said was a big huge long monster. He toured over there years ago and was amazed by it.

Who makes the CETMES that came after the ATF ban?

I'll try and get the time today to get a few pics.

rogertc1
January 3, 2010, 09:21 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CETME

http://www.tonyrogers.com/weapons/cetme.htm

Quiet
January 3, 2010, 10:08 AM
As I understand it, the CETME (acronym for some Spanish government agency) was developed by German engineers living in Spain (go figure) with input from H&K.
WW2 had something to do with that.
German engineers fleeing to Spain (a neutral country) before the Allies could round them up.

Ditchtiger
January 3, 2010, 10:15 AM
CETME is an acronym for Centro de Estudios Técnicos de Materiales Especiales (Center for Technical Studies of Special Materials),

SaxonPig
January 3, 2010, 10:29 AM
Only the paperwork had H&K on it> That is different from what you first implied. I suspect the rifle is a CETME and someone stuck the operator's manual for the 91 in the box because the rifles are really the same so either instruction book will work.

Shear_stress
January 3, 2010, 10:42 AM
If you have a Mars import, you have a heck of a collector's item. You could order them through the mail in the 1960s(!)

Who makes the CETMES that came after the ATF ban?

More recent CETMEs were brought in as surplus rifles and the receivers sacrificed to pagan gods. At that point, a journeyman team of either irritable aquatic rodents or gin-soaked primates (depending on who tells the story) reattach the remaining parts to U.S.-made receivers. As you can imagine, this is done with varying degrees of success.

briansmithwins
January 3, 2010, 10:46 AM
As it so happens, I have a picture of CAI's assembly crew. BSW

From L-R we have Daryl and Darly, welding. Bob, logistics. Martha, the brains behind the outfit. Hilda and Zeke, assembly. Lumpy handles odd jobs.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y3/briansmithwins/SeriouslyWhatTheFIsThatOnTheFarRigh.jpg

Shear_stress
January 3, 2010, 10:54 AM
Okay, okay. In fairness, there are folks on this board with Century Arms CETMEs that are reliable, don't have ground bolts, and maintain decent bolt gap.

Fuzzybunny, please post of a pic of your rifle when you get a second. You have quite a prize.

Rollis R. Karvellis
January 3, 2010, 11:47 AM
Ahhhhh I miss the old famly reunions.

PzGren
January 3, 2010, 12:06 PM
The CETME design was not "bought out" by H&K.

It was licensed to Germany by the Spanish government.

Cetmes design was neither bought by HK nor was it licensed to Germany. German engineers had developped the G3 in Spain in the 1950s and Cetme got sued for the roller lock action, they lost.

GunsAmerica Fan
January 3, 2010, 12:10 PM
I have two CETMEs and they perform flawlessly. All that I know were brought in by Century and and have Imbel receivers I believe (bit of a brain fart). They kick like a fargin mule compared to an FAL with the gas adjusted, but I have never had a failure in a ton of ammo fired of all types. Pretty accurate too, they have a battle and precision peep site that turns.

BurningSaviour
January 3, 2010, 12:15 PM
IMBEL receivers? Are you sure you're not thinking of your FAL, rather? IMBEL has always manufactured the FAL under license (and continues to).

rogertc1
January 3, 2010, 02:13 PM
I got mine back in Nov 2001 when they had the stainless recviever and all the part kits used were taken from almost new guns. Wood was perfect. It was under $400 and yes i did have to work on it a little like most Century guns but after i polished the internal parts the CETME worked like a swiss watch. They dent the heck out of the brass.
Very easy to work on and lots of instruction on the web.

az_imuth
January 3, 2010, 04:31 PM
rogertc1,
Yours sounds a lot like mine. I bought my SS CETME in September of 2001 back when they were using new parts. I've never had any issues with mine and it has always been very accurate. However, just by chance I did notice metal filings , sand and other trash in the receiver and got it all cleaned out before ever firing the thing. I'm thinking it may not have worked out so well otherwise.:uhoh:

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