[Mags]

Just bought my second bolt gun. I do not hunt and I do not particapate in rifle competitions. I do like to push accuracy out of my rifles and have been thinking of getting a neck size set up such as Lee's Collet dies. The rifle would be a Howa 1500 heavy barreled 308 1:12 twists. The bullets loaded would be of the usual 168 grain variety. Would I see any benefit or more fun using a neck sizer? I already keep the brass fired from this rifle marked from the rest of my 308/7.62 brass. Let me know experiences and opinions. Thanks.

[counterclockwise]

The new die could make a slight difference in bullet-to-case concentricity, which, in turn, could make a slight improvement in bullet concentricity to the lands. Also, there could be some improvement in consistency of neck tension (bullet-to-case retention force). Tighter control of these two parameters could make a slight difference in accuracy. I suggest getting the new Howa 1500 barrel broken-in well before starting to look at these kinds of improvements in reloading.

[Mags]

Well I did a few shoot clean shoot clean drills on the Howa and it is grouping pretty well with F/L sized brass.

[Dannix]

AFAIK Full Length is really only for semiautos, lever guns, et al, guns that have a feeding mechanism, or for using brass in different guns. So if you keep fired brass paired together with the gun they were fired in, you only need to do neck sizing. Oh, and you don't need to crimp on a single round bolt gun you are only target shooting with either.

This is just iirc, based on some noob advice I got from the benchrest-central guys when I was a complete greenhorn. But I think I remember this right.

[Jeff82]

Have you measured case length before and after firing? After firing the case is close to your chamber size (there is a slight amount of rebound in the case). FL resizing is setting the case back to where it started from (working it long, working it short). NS only will leave the case alone and not work the brass as much. You get case longevity and a more consistant chambering with NS only.

[jcwit]

If only neck sizing you're keeping the cases fire sized to the chamber of your rifle. Depending on how hot you load the only resizing you should need is to bump the shoulder back once in a while. Neck sizing basicially only adds neck tension for the bullet, and then you can even get into which size bushing you want to adjust how much neck tension you want.

Your cases should last alot longer also and that means something when using cases like LAPUA.

[Mags]

The real question is "for someone like me for my purpose will neck sizing be all that much better than F/L sizing?"

[JimKirk]

I suggest "Partial Full length" sizing. You size the neck and bump the shoulder back just enough so the bolt closes with just a very slight resistance. It insures that you ammo will chamber properly and gives all the benefits of neck sizing. But I don't think it will work with a Lee Collet die. It does not over work the brass like Full Length sizing.

Jimmy K

[jcwit]

The real question is "for someone like me for my purpose will neck sizing be all that much better than F/L sizing?"


I would guess it all depends on just what you're after in accuracy or what you wish to accomplish.

I do not shoot compition but do casual Benchrest shooting with some other friends. Some of use Panda actions, or Custom actions and barreled by custom smiths using Kreiger barrels ect, ect. Just depends how far you want to get into it.

[woods]

I suggest "Partial Full length" sizing. You size the neck and bump the shoulder back just enough so the bolt closes with just a very slight resistance. It insures that you ammo will chamber properly and gives all the benefits of neck sizing. But I don't think it will work with a Lee Collet die. It does not over work the brass like Full Length sizing.

Jimmy K

Good advice. You can neck size with the Lee Collet and get a Redding Body Die

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=620746

to size the case body and push the shoulder back when needed. With this 2 die combination that doesn't cost much more if any than a FL die.

You can get 3 or 4 firings with just neck sizing with the Lee Collet, your case will become hard to chamber and then use the Redding Body Die to make chambering easier.

The advantage will be that the Lee Collet does not require lube in the neck and has a floating collet that will not create runout.

[Walkalong]

The real question is "for someone like me for my purpose will neck sizing be all that much better than F/L sizing?" No. Just full length size to match your chamber. That said. The Lee collet die is inexpensive, works pretty well, and it never hurts to try things. I quit using mine for .222 Mag.

[243winxb]

The real question is "for someone like me for my purpose will neck sizing be all that much better than F/L sizing?" No. Using standard dies, FLRSing will be more accurate.

[JimKirk]

No. Just full length size to match your chamber
= Partial Full Length sizing.

JK

[Walkalong]

Pretty much.

[navyretired 1]

Mags; when a factory rifle is fired with a SAMI spec cartridge the case obturates to fill complete chamber then relaxes slightly (aids extraction). The benefit in neck sizing is the cartridge is already expanded to exact chamber shape and Headspace, remember you have a 0.004" difference between go and no-go. If you F/L size everytime you'll be overworking the brass. N/S allows the brass to only expand to fill chamber then goes back to origanal size. It's a win/win situation more powder space, longer case life, less case trimming, perfect headspace if you don't bump the shoulder back. Full length sizing is not necessary unless the N/S case won't chamber.
hope this helps, I was a newbe once until my cousin should me the best stress releaf exercise in the world (reloading) in 1965 after my first tour in RVN. I was very receptive to never running out of ammo.

[chache]

Mags, thanks for asking this question
I shoot the same rifle in .243

I have been using factory ammo once-shot brass for this gun.

Should I full length size before starting to neck size, or just start neck sizing after the factory ammo is fire-formed?

[benzy2]

I don't like plain neck sizing without adjusting the shoulder at all. The reason for that is the process. You neck size for a couple firings, then the bolt gets real sticky and you bump the shoulder back so the bolt moves free, and repeat. That doesn't scream consistency. The system I like, which has been mentioned a couple times here, is that where you neck size and just slightly bump the shoulder back so that the bolt has just a hint of resistance. This produces cases that are consistent to each other (benefits of the full length sizing) as well as being a good fit to the chamber and having minimally worked the brass (neck sizing benefits). Best of all worlds, and a standard full length die can be set to do such a sizing.

[USSR]

I don't like plain neck sizing without adjusting the shoulder at all. The reason for that is the process. You neck size for a couple firings, then the bolt gets real sticky and you bump the shoulder back so the bolt moves free, and repeat. That doesn't scream consistency.

+1. What I do is bump the shoulder back with my Redding body die, and then necksize with my Redding bushing neck sizer.

Don

[navyretired 1]

Bump sizing is very popular right now in bench rest world, but I don't know why, I've been only neck sizing for many years with no problem with any caliber but 30-30 and 22 Hornet. That problem is now cured by rechambering to 30-30 AI and 22K Hornet. If a case is getting longer requiring a shoulder bump then a chambered cartridge which is gas sealed to 40,000 to 50,000 psi is moving or flexing backwards from bolt thrust. I don't know how. My 7mm Mag cases have been chambering with slight bolt resistance for 20 years with the only case failures being case neck splits, which sometimes doesn't show up until sometimes many months after actual loading. I'm sure of this because I am compulsive/ obsessive about my hunting loads. Meaning careful inspection of every case after each stage. This tells me the only real case stress on these cases is in necks.
My friends who bench rest show shoulder splits all the time and ask me why. Well I've quit telling them it's because of that shoulder bump sizing because a local shooter with national standing in 300 and 600 yds insists you have to shoulder bump size. Their calibers are all hot 6mm Dashers or BRs which have routinely popped primers or case seperations on new cases so slighty hard over worked shoulders are easy targets.
I've built me a 6mm Rem AI and am only going to neck size and see how many reloads I get on each case. I also built mine on a CZ 24 Mauser action blue printed by me. They use custom actions costing several thousand dollers. I'll post next fall when season ends.

[eastbank]

once fired brass is easy to find at gun shows,flea markets and yard sales, i full lenth size all and trim if needed and only reload three times and then sell them or junk them. i get brass for .50-1.00 a box(20) that way, so for three loads your cost for brass if very little. and the cases never stick in your rifle. i don,t do that for the odd balls i load for as the brass cost much more and will put the extra effort into loading the cases as long as t i can to keep the cost down. eastbank.

[Walkalong]

Bump sizing is very popular right now in bench rest world, but I don't know why,They have been doing it for many years, for the same reason benzy2 & USSR alluded to. At the pressures we were operating at you simply must bump the shoulder a hair each time. :)

My friends who bench rest show shoulder splits all the time and ask me whyWe never had that problem.

have routinely popped primers or case seperations on new casesThey are doing something wrong. Bumping shoulders .001 or less each time is not the problem, assuming they are doing it right and not bumping far more.

[JimKirk]

I have some 25/06 brass that I've loaded at least 20 times using partial full length sizing. It works as good today as it did the day I started with it. These have been full blown loads too! The only cases I lost have been to split necks, I feel this would have happen even with neck sizing. With PFLS(or Bump), the idea is to move the shoulder back only enough to allow the bolt to close with out over exerting cam forces on the bolt of the gun. You may only move the shoulder back .0005 . Say what you want but that shoulder moves forward with 60,000 psi and I know it flexes back but not all the way back. If you're getting split shoulders, then you're bumping too much. It really only take a very very little. By the way if you're neck sizing and have a lot of bolt cam pressure ...then you're bump sizing your brass with the bolt of the gun instead of in a die. Which would you rather wear out a $60 die or a $1000+ rifle?

Jimmy K

[SlamFire1]

I have some 25/06 brass that I've loaded at least 20 times using partial full length sizing. It works as good today as it did the day I started with it. These have been full blown loads too!

I consider setting the shoulder back .003" to be full length resizing. Setting the shoulder back .006" will cause case head separations.

I don't believe in neck sizing as I do not want to have to wrestle the bolt down. For a hunting rifle, full length resizing is a better way to go.

Just set your full length dies with a cartridge headspace gage, and don't size below gage minimum.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Reloading/ReducedWilsongagemeasuringnew308bra.jpg

[Walkalong]

Just set your full length dies with a cartridge headspace gage, and don't size below gage minimum.

For most shooting, that is exactly what most people should do.

For the more experienced reloader, I would say bump the shoulder .001 to .002. That will help case life and be easy to chamber. That can not be accomplished by measuring, setting your die, and then never checking again. As brass work hardens, you must adjust the die to account for it. Then when you anneal, or get new brass, you must start all over.

For target shooters, there are way to many variables to discuss here.

[JimKirk]

Quote:
I have some 25/06 brass that I've loaded at least 20 times using partial full length sizing. It works as good today as it did the day I started with it. These have been full blown loads too!

I consider setting the shoulder back .003" to be full length resizing. Setting the shoulder back .006" will cause case head separations.


Slam are you quoting me?
I believe I saidmove the shoulder back .0005

Count the zeros
By the way that piece of steel in the picture may not be same size as my peice of steel I call a chamber.
Jimmy k

[evan price]

In my Rem 700 PSS .308 I first full length resize the brass to get it to "zero" then trim to minimum.
Shoot it in the rifle, and keep the cases segregated (easy, since I've been shooting LC MATCH brass).

Then on I use a Lee Collet neck die to resize. Keep going that way until the case eventually starts getting harder to close the bolt on. Then it gets FLR'ed again. One advantage (to me) is the brass lasts a lot longer this way than it would from FLRing every firing. Less work hardening. Of course, annealing will help this too.

[SlamFire1]

Slam are you quoting me?
I believe I said
Quote:
move the shoulder back .0005

Count the zeros

Jimmy, I was not quoting you or making you "the bad" example. I did not count the zero's either, .0005" setback would be fine, but I doubt my measuring equipment is reliable at ten thousandth measurements.

A good rule of thumb is that cases are not expected to stretch more than .006" without rupturing. That is where the .006 came from.

By the way that piece of steel in the picture may not be same size as my peice of steel I call a chamber.
Jimmy k

I stole this picture from someone, and now I have forgetten who. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v479/SlamFire/Reloading/Wilsongageandheadspacegage.jpg

But I am certain that the picture taker did the same thing I did with my Wilson gages, that is drop chamber headspace gages in the things.

My Wilson gages correspond exactly with chamber headspace gages. The lowest level is exactly the Go gage, and the highest the No Go gage.

I have gaged most of my rifles. The factory bolt rifles with matching bolt and serial numbers, if they are push feed with those blasted in bolt face ejectors, I just assume that the factory got the head space correct. It is too much of a fuss to remove the extractor and the ejector. I do have the tools for M1's, M1a's, and AR's but not M700's or M70's.

So, if your rifle is correctly headspaced, then the gages will work. You can still drop a fired case in a Wilson gage and determine the headspace and adjust your dies accordingly.

[JimKirk]

Slam
I didn't mean to sound like I was ticked or anything, but you did quote my saying that I had loaded the 25/06 cases many times and them went on to say what you did about the .003 & .005 numbers. I had assumed that by doing the quote that I said what you said.


But my statement about the Wilson case gauge or any other gauge is just that a gauge.
But the only gauge that really matters is the chamber on the gun I am loading for at that time. The topic of the thread is about neck or FL sizing as related to the OP and his one gun. While the "gauge" would be ideal if he had five guns of the same caliber, all that matters is "that" one gun.
So, if your rifle is correctly headspaced, then the gages will work. You can still drop a fired case in a Wilson gage and determine the headspace and adjust your dies accordingly
But if it is not, what good is gauge other than to let you know that you gun is out of specs? That 25/06 chamber of mine is "long", it will fire factory ammo, but it is long none to less. If I were to use the gauge to set my dies, my brass may last three shots, maybe.

Maybe I'm beating a dead horse or maybe I'm just talking to myself, again.

Jimmy K

[woods]

I think you are right on Jim. The go-no-go gauges will only tell you if you are within specs or out of specs. A Hornady headspace gauge or the Innovative will give you numbers to work with so that you can set your shoulder at .001" or by interpolating between the lines to .0005".

The go-no-go's are even less useful on belted cases since they measure the headspace on the belt and not the more important measurement of head clearance at the shoulder on the datum line

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v663/bwestfall/RELOADING/rimless.jpg

I have never seen the usefulness of a go-no-go gauge other than when the gunsmith is reaming the chamber.

[JimKirk]

Woods
I have a Mitutoyo 2910S-72 indicator that will read .0001, a gift from my wife's uncle who worked at NASA and later at Savannh River Site. Sometimes it is good to have in-laws.

Jimmy K

[Bart B.]

Sierra Bullets full length sizes their cases used to test their bullets for accuracy. They've got best accuracy doing this for their test barrels with standard SAAMI chambers since the early 1950's. Instead of regular full length sizing dies they did years ago, they now use full length Redding Full Bushing dies for cartridges they're available for and Redding standard full length dies for the rest. I doubt anyone shoots their bullets more accurate than they do.

The smallest groups with more than 10 shots at all ranges beyond 200 yards I know of have all been done with fired cases full length sized. And in one test full length sizing one fired Winchester .308 case then shooting it at 100 yards 57 times, all shots went inside 3/10ths MOA. Virtually all high power match rifle records and winning scores are made with cases so sized. Even the benchresters are moving towards full length sized cases. There's even evidence that compared to neck only sizing, proper full length sized rimless bottleneck cases fit the chamber better at their front end aligning the bullet more precise to the bore when the round's fired.

It's important with full length dies to size fired case body diameters down and set fired case shoulders back 2 to 3 thousandths of an inch. And dies without those darned neck-bending expander balls. Just deprime and clean fired cases before lubing and sizing them.

If new, unfired cases can produce better accuracy than neck only or partial neck sizing, doesn't it make sense to resize fired cases down to about new case dimensions? But then if one doesn't full length size their fired case the best way for accuracy, then neck or partial neck sizing will produce better results.

There's a popular belief that full length sizing reduces case life. But folks who use proper dies for .308 Win. cases get several dozen reloads per case with max loads. I've got as many as 45 but ran out of powder used in that test. Never annealed a case neck, either.

[Bart B.]

navyretired 1 comments: Bump sizing is very popular right now in bench rest world, but I don't know why The reason's been known by top high power rifle shooters since the early 1960's regarding rimless bottleneck cases. It has to do with a small amount of clearance needed at the shoulder to do two things.

One is to prevent the bolt binding on the case head when it's closed if sized case headspace is any greater than chamber headspace. This usually twists the bolt head to a position other than where it would stop at when it doesn't bind on the case (especially with unsquare bolt faces). With it at a slightly different position, super accurate rifles will put the bullet at a different spot because the barreled action whips and vibrates a bit different. The bolt head has to be in exactly the same place for each shot. Some 'smiths for benchresters fit bolts so tight to receivers to ensure they're in the same place for every shot, a fat microbe on the bolt would prevent it from opening.

The other reason is how the case gets positioned at its front end in the chamber. With so many benchrest rifles' chambers cut pretty tight at their shoulder diameters, any interference at that point by a chambered round will cause accuracy problems. As there's no such thing as a perfectly round case or chamber at the shoulder, a case whose maximum shoulder diameter's at the minimum chamber shoulder diameter may offset the case neck in the chamber neck a tiny bit. If there's enough misalignment of the bullet to the rifling, accuracy will degrade a bit. With a thousandth or more clearance between case and chamber shoulder, there'll be no interference. This is one reason why proper full length sized cases typically shoot more accurate than neck only sized ones.

With a bit of clearance at the shoulder diameter as well as headspace, the case shoulder's free to seat perfectly centered in the chamber shoulder when the firing pin smacks the primer and setting the shoulder back a few thousandths before the round fires.

[Walkalong]

One is to prevent the bolt binding on the case head when it's closed if sized case headspace is any greater than chamber headspace.Exactly, and a much better answer/explanation that when I posted - "At the pressures we were operating at you simply must bump the shoulder a hair each time".

Outstanding post all the way around Bart. :)

[duck911]

Question for you all:

If a fella is shooting brand new brass right out of the bag, could it take a few firings for the shoulder to move forward enough to even be able to partial FLRS?

I have a 17 Fireball and when measuring my brass compared to unfired brass, I found that my shoulders barely moved forward. Should I just shoot until I finally do have a crush fit, then PFLRS until the end of time?

thanks,

--Duck911

[Chamacat]

Not to take away anything from this thread...I have read somwhere..I'm thinking a reloading manual that for 30 caliber and above it is recommended to full length resize every time...I would think that on "Magnum" cartridges that full length would always be performed..I'm knew to this also...Thanks

[Walkalong]

If a fella is shooting brand new brass right out of the bag, could it take a few firings for the shoulder to move forward enough to even be able to partial FLRS?No, it just often times isn't as blown out as much (after retracting when the pressure subsides) the first time as it will be the second.

[JimKirk]

I want to add something for you guys who shoot Belted Magnum Cartridges(BMC). If you Full Length Size(FLS) and your chamber is longer than what your die has sized your brass to, then you have created artificial head space. Because the belt is what actually(in this case) head spaces the cartridge. But because you may have moved that shoulder back .005 or more, depending on your die, you cases will stretch between the belt and shoulder, usually this happens right above the case head. If you get three reloading out of a case you'll be lucky, and you may get a case separation and that ain't good!
This is where Partial Full Length Sizing(PFLS) comes to play it best game. If you PFLS so that the shoulder and the belt touches the chamber at the same time, you will have a perfect head spaced cartridge. Even if you move the shoulder back an additional .001 less you are much better off than FLS.
My old reloading mentor showed me how to smut a case with a candle so that you could tell exactly how much you've move that shoulder and if the belt is touching. It is simple, smut the belt area(don't get the case too hot) and smut the shoulder area, leave the middle of the case blank so you can handle it. Try it and let me know how it works, you don't need a gauge of any kind and it tell you the truth....How that case fits MY chamber! Oh by the way, It works for non-belted cases just as well! That is why I have such a distaste for belted rounds too! Have you noticed that the new rounds don't have belts!

Jimmy K

[twofifty]

Not adding anything here but to say 'thanks all' for a very useful discussion that helps me understand the 'why' of what I noticed was going on.

I started out FL sizing, then went to NS only...till the cases wouldn't easily chamber, then found out about PFLS i.e. bumping. The latter gives me consistent bolt closing effort and consistent match results.

[TexasShooter59]

I wanted to say that I really have appreciated this discussion, also. I am hoping to finally get started reloading soon and this is something I needed to know about to reach my goals. Otherwise, I was just going to neck size my existing brass.

:cool:

[fguffey]

"I consider setting the shoulder back .003" to be full length resizing. Setting the shoulder back .006" will cause case head separations".

"A good rule of thumb is that cases are not expected to stretch more than .006" without rupturing. That is where the .006 came from"

I do not know, again Hather reamed a 30/06 Modified chamber, he moved the shoulder forward .125 thousands and fired 30/06 ammo in the chamber thinking the case would separate, for his trouble he got a case fire formed to the 30 Hatcher modified/06, but that was a different set of rules.

Again 8mm57 ammo has been fired in an 8/06 chamber, none had case head seperation, although the shoulder bacame part of the case body and part of the neck became part of the shoulder the case when extracted was nothing more than a short necked 8/06.

The shoulder did not move, part of the neck became part of the shoulder and part of the shoulder became part of the case body.

F. Guffey

Not sure where these numbers come from as in .006. If I owned a set of dies that moved the shoulder back .006 thousands I would get my money back, my press, die and shell holders are designed to size a case to minimum length, that would be .000 as in .005 shorter in length from the head of the case to it's shoulder than the chamber (go-gage size) length from the bolt face to the shoulder of the chamber, and then there is all that press flex? So full length sizing is sizing to minimum dimensions..and there is all of these 'BUMP' precision adjustments as in bumping the shoulder back .0005, how do you do that? As in adjusting the die to the shell holder in the press with 14 threads per inch without a degree wheel or a feed index in thousands.I do that, I use the 'Companion Tool To The Press Tool' the feeler gage, Elmer Fudd has trouble with the letter 'R', hand loaders can not say FEELER GAGE. I use the feeler gage as a standard and a transfer.

F. Guffey

[ranger335v]

"Please fill me in on Neck Sizing vs Full Length Sizing."

That could easily take a chapter in a book. Ain't gonna do that so I'll get to the bottom line; Sometimes neck sizing helps, sometimes it doesn't. Try it.

The Lee die is likely the best neck die available for factory chambers.

[Dannix]

I've been following this thread on again, off again...

Ranger, could you provide a link where such a chapter is posted or printed?

[Roamingdoc]

OMG! Wow.... I stumbled across this thread while "trying" to improve my "new" reloading skills (errr, lack of them?) and decided I need a PhD in "something" to comprehend what seems to be great information.
Bart B says "But folks who use proper dies for .308 Win. cases get several dozen reloads per case with max loads." -
I'm shooting a Rem 700 (three years old, 1800 rnds) VLS (heavy barrel) completely SAAMI. The stock is AI. I shoot off sand bags usually prone. Scope is Leu 6.5x20 (old eyes).
T-7 is my press... been using RCBS dies - but reading this I'm wondering if I can drop lower (regularly shoots .75MOA with careful mechanics) without changing the gun, just the methods of my reloading.
How does one go about 'determining' the "proper dies?" Should the Redding 'bushing' based dies be used. I don't see anything else comparable to them but I don't know how to use them exactly either (not owning a set) and so I ask...
I've been using a standard Digital Caliper and don't own anything that measures runout, etc... should I?
Thanks...

[USSR]

How does one go about 'determining' the "proper dies?" Should the Redding 'bushing' based dies be used. I don't see anything else comparable to them but I don't know how to use them exactly either (not owning a set) and so I ask...
I've been using a standard Digital Caliper and don't own anything that measures runout, etc... should I?

If you want to take it up a step, IMHO, Redding bushing dies and some measurement tools are well worth it. First the tools. While there are many, the 3 that I find essential are, an RCBS Precision Mic for measuring your case headspace, a Hornady (formerly Stoney Point) OAL Gage for measuring your rifle's boltface to leade measurement, and a tool for measuring your reloaded cartridges case base to bullet ogive length (for adjusting your seating die). I like to seat my bullets .010-.012" short of the leade if the magazine allows, and do all my load development with a fixed COAL and varied powder charge weights. Now, regarding the bushing dies. The beauty of the bushing dies are many fold. First, you do not overwork your brass. With regular dies, you deliberately reduce the neck down to below what you want, and then pull an expander ball thru the neck to bring it back up to where you want it. Pulling the expander ball thru the neck can change the case headspace, as well as introduce runout by making for a less than straight neck. With a bushing die, you reduce the neck diameter to exactly what you want by selecting the appropriate size bushing, and it can be varied (something you can only do if you have several different size expander balls available with regular dies) according to the brand of brass you are using, or the application (autoloader or boltgun). Another benefit is, if you go with the titanium nitride bushings, you do not need to apply a lube to your case necks. I use a Redding body die in combination with a Redding bushing necksizing die to FL resize my brass. Two distinct operations to FL resize my brass, but I like the control it gives me. Hope that helps.

Don

[Roamingdoc]

Thank you Don... I am digesting it.
I was about to buy a digital headspace gauge from Larry Willis and I think it does about what you were suggesting.

It seems that (1) everyone is suggesting FL sizing for better accuracy and (if done correctly, like with a bushing based die) adds longevity to the case. I will have to learn how to use the bushing setup.

I was under the impression that 'very fine' variances usually only helped in rifles with expensive aftermarket barrels but that does NOT seem to be the case (?).

I think I'll sell the RCBS dies and get the Reddings set. Still learning, THANKS!

[243winxb]

Redding Type S FL sizing bushing die will size the case in 1 operation. Use of the expander button is optional. As for adjusting shoulder bump, set up die with a shim between the shell holder and FL die. Adjust till bolt action will close. (regularly shoots .75MOA with careful mechanics) Not much room for improvement, you better keep what you have till you see if accuracy is better with bushings. http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n420/joe1944usa/Redding_1.jpg

[Roamingdoc]

Really appreciate that picture. Was on Redding's site and the photos/diagrams of the dies were hard to view. Your photo is clear. Thanks.

Going to buy the Willis gauge and see if I can get the dies, the proper stand off and determine what difference it makes. I know that the stock gun shoots nicely and I am pleased with the performance. Just hoping to get a bit more out of it before the barrel goes and I have to invest.

Thanks