[StudentoftheGun]

I recently bought a Kimber Tactical Pro II. I intended to use it as a home defense pistol. Unfortunately, it has given me nothing but grief!

After I bought it I took it to the range and put several hundred rounds through it in order to give it the "break in" period. The gun had some FTE's and FTF's. No biggie, I said, it just needs some more rounds through it. Even after I passed the 500 round mark I still had the same malfunction. The extractor would not let go of the spent shell casing. It would remain pinned against the breech face. Another round would then attempt to chamber as the slide moved forward. This was a bit tough to clear considering that I had to pry the brass loose even after the magazine was removed.

I sent the gun back to Kimber. I will admit I was a little miffed since I had spent nearly $1000 on it and it didnt work. It was gone for a week. I was very happy that the turn around time was so short!

I took the gun to the range again and lo and behold....it still jams. It is the SAME malfunction as before. On the sheet they sent back with the gun they said that they had done "cleaning and lubrication procedures" and replaced the extractor.

I called Kimber to talk to somone about getting a new pistol. My confidence in this gun is ruined. I finally got the head of the custom shop whos name is Dennis. Dennis was rude to say the least. He interrupted me on several occasions. Now I am not a very happy camper. He basically made me feel like crap. At no time did anyone say they were sorry for my trouble. They offered to send a "call tag" for the gun. Dennis said he would personally attend to the repair of my pistol. The basic idea is that if the gun malfunctions once very 80 rounds or so they may or may not have it happen to them. This means that the gun might bounce back and forth between us. I would have hoped to have avoided this situtation.

I would be happy, and my confidence would be restored if they would replace my gun. Dennis flatly refused to do so. He said another interesting thing as well: he claimed that the recoil spring of the "Pro" series should be replaced EVERY 800 ROUNDS!!! He said that the spring for the full size is too long so they are forced to use the spring for the "ultra carry".

What a load of crap! Here's a novel idea: If the recoil springs for the full size dont work...and the ultra is too short....("too short" being HIS exact words) then how bout make a spring that DOES work? Why use one from a different model?

I am sad to say that I am beginning to lose respect and confidence in Kimber products.....and my treatment at the hand of Dennis (who is by the way the Head Honcho of the custom shop) does nothing to make me feel any better about their guns.

StudentoftheGun

[Skunkabilly]

:( SOrry about your Kimber :(

What brand of ammo are you using?

[Kruzr]

The manual states to replace the Pro Springs every 800 rounds so that shouldn't have been a surprise. They take a full diameter 22# Officer's spring (Wolff item #49022). The Ultra takes a dual captured spring/guide rod. I get about 1100 rounds between spring changes in my Pro CDP. It sounds like the extractor just needs adjusting. Have you tried this? It's not hard to do. Take a look at this article:

http://www.m1911.org/technic2.htm

[GySgt]

Dennis is a piece of work isn't he? I think he attended the Don Rickles school of customer service :p

I had some initial problems with my Kimber a couple years back and after dealing with Dennis, decided to fix the problem myself. Follow kruzr's link and give that a try. If that fails, I'd take it to a good gunsmith before I'd send it back to Kimber.

Good Luck

[Kruzr]

Dennis is a piece of work isn't he? I think he attended the Don Rickles school of customer service

I heard it was the Atomic School of Charm. :D The NY accent helps. ;)

[Atticus]

I had the same problem with my first Kimber. On the advice of someone more knowlegable than myself, I removed the extractor and gently (but firmly) flexed it a couple of times. After that, it ran through the next 500 rounds without a hitch and very rarely misfed after that day. I nearly gave up on mine as well... and that would have been a shame.

[Lone_Gunman]

Somebody has to say it, so it might as well be me...

Why not just get a Glock?

The less than 5 inch 1911 is an abomination that God and JMB did not intend to exist.

[Skunkabilly]

Flexing the extractor won't do much; the model he has AFAIK has an external extractor...do you have the pro tactical or tactical pro?

[TarpleyG]

Well this is yet another shining example of Dennis' great attitude. Listen up, Dennis, if you're reading. Stop being a jerk!!! I won't buy another Kimber, ever, primarily because of all the bad things I have heard about YOU. I guess you like sending your customers to Colt, Springfield, and everyone else.

GT

[10-Ring]

That really suck :( and to have that kind of reaction from the manufacturer only made things worse :( I hope you can resolve this to your satisfaction soon.

[Stevie-Ray]

The less than 5 inch 1911 is an abomination that God and JMB did not intend to exist. Sorry you feel that way. Mine outshoots most 5 inch models I've tried.

[feedthehogs]

I have three Kimbers, Stainless Gold Match, Eclipse Ultra II and the Stainless Target II in 10mm. All 3 had ftf and fte in the first 200 rounds.
After 200 rounds they were dissassembled including the extractor and well cleaned and lightly lubed.
All have functioned flawlessly since then and shoot incredible. They don't all like the same brands of hp's though.

I too called Dennis to ask about refinishing the Stainless Target II the same as the Eclipse and got the same attitude.
Never Mind.

The only other problem I saw with one of my Kimbers in failing to feed or eject was when I let a student use it at the range to try out.
He had numerous problem with feed and eject. I took it and it worked fine.

I determined that he was not holding his grip and stance well and allowed some of the recoil inertia to be absorbed into his body thru movement thus reducing slide energy.

[StudentoftheGun]

Kruzr,

I agree that an extractor adjustment might (or maybe not) fix the issue. Wouldnt it be reasonable to assume that after sending the gun to Kimber that they should "adjust" it properly? Especially since they did replace the extractor.

My point is that I should not have any issues with a gun that I ran the obligatory "break in" rounds through. This is not a cheap gun by my standards. Am I being unreasonable by expecting it to work?

Something about having to tweak a brand new gun AFTER its been sent back to the factory does not make sense. Regardless I appreciate your help and suggestions Kruzr!

Skunkabilly, it is a Tactical Pro. Shipped out of Kimber April 28, 2003...from the mouth of Dennis....

StudentoftheGun

[Jim K]

OK, howinheck can the case be "stuck" to the breech face. I thought the ejector was supposed to take care of that little detail. Is it not working? Missing? Broken? Wrong one for the cartridge?

It could be that the external extractor does not have enough clearance for ejection (the rim has to have space to move) but that should not prevent ejection though it might affect the extractor after while.

IMHO, a recoil spring that is only good for 800 rounds is a POS. Sounds like they use el cheapo parts and cover their fannies by telling the suckers to replace the junk. I wonder if that works for other companies. Ford could tell you the engine in your new F150 is only good for 5000 miles, and you have to replace it at your own expense. I doubt they would be in business very long.

Jim

[Kruzr]

Student, yes, they absolutely should have fixed it. Skunk is right, its an external extractor it shouldn't need any adjustment. Its a spring that holds the tension. The only thing I can think of is that there is gunk or dirt in the channel by where the plunger engages the extractor hook and its keeping it from "flexing". Maybe give it a good spray to see if it helps. Other than that, if Dennis the Menace offered to pay shipping, take him up on the offer and see what happens. They usually have a very quick turnaround at Kimber.

Jim, this is a 4" barrel 1911. Every manufacturer of the shorter pistols recommends spring replacements much sooner than on a Gov't model.

[StudentoftheGun]

My cleaning regimen is as follows: take everything apart, spray it down with gum buster and let it dry. Then reassemble with the right amount of lube. I do take out the firing pin when I do this. External extractors come apart about the same way the old ones do, but there is a spring of course, and it has to be put back together correctly.

After the parts are all sprayed down and are dried off (before lubing) you could use them for utensils. I know how to clean my guns :-) Although its a heckuva lot more fun to shoot em'.

Student

[George Hill]

Psst... Springfield called. They want your business.

[GySgt]

Originally posted by Kruzr:
Skunk is right

With all due respect to the rest of you......
Other than the "Tacticallity" issues he has...
"Skunkabilly" is always right :D

Semper Fi, GySgt

[Jack19]

This sounds extremely familiar.....I did the Kimber Dance a few years ago. Spent upwards of $150 to make a Compact Aluminum work right...and Kimber "customer service" was less than helpful. Sold it and never looked back.

Every time I see the Kimber ads in gun mags touting LAPD selecting them, I get real worried for LAPD.

[rick_reno]

"I finally got the head of the custom shop whos name is Dennis. Dennis was rude to say the least. "

Dennis is a legend on the 1911 board - you should feel honored he took the time to insult you. He is a jerk - and hopefully has cost Kimber sales. I know he cost them any future business from me.

Sell that gun. Take a look at Springfield - excellent support - or maybe the new Sig 1911 - it's being discussed in the autoloading list.

[CWL]

My NIB non-working Kimber went back a few times until I decided to take it to a local smith, ultimately cheaper and more reliable than keep sending it to NY. Won't buy another Kimber.

[MoNsTeR]

Forget that every-800rds nonsense. The 22# spring is too heavy anyway. Use it til it wears out, which I expect would be more like 2000rds, and get 20# or 18# springs as replacements.

[StudentoftheGun]

Thanks Monster!

I will do just that.


Student


(edited because i cant spell....even small words it seems)

[Kestrel]

On one hand, maybe someone should speak to Kimber's upper management about Dennis. But on the other hand, if he is costing Kimber sales, that just means fewer guns in peoples hands that will probably break or malfunction. He might actually be saving some lives... ;)

I have two Kimber series 1 pistols. Full size. Don't trust either one of them. They malfunction. One of these days, I'll have both of them gutted and replace EVERY component in them, except the slide, frame and barrel.

Steve

[JohnBT]

I always hate to hear about a new gun that won't work, but it happens to all the brands. Read up on some of the more expensive guns such as Brown and Wilson. They don't have as many problems, but they do have them.

I'm also curious what ammo you've been using. All of this stuff has to work together. I hope you didn't stumble across some of the infamous American Ammo.

Another thing. How much force does it take to slide a round under the extractor with the slide off? And how much to remove it? Is the breechface cut wide enough or is the rim a bit of a force fit? Sort of hard to diagnose these things at a distance isn't it?

John

As far as the earlier comment "Why not just get a Glock?" - - - - ->

Just be sure not to get one of the thousands and thousands of guns included in the frame recall. Or any of the other 'upgrades' like the one involving the barrel. :D

[bountyhunter]

On one hand, maybe someone should speak to Kimber's upper management about Dennis.

Maybe he saw that Seinfeld episode about the Soup Nazi and thought that people would be standing in line to buy guns if he just insulted them enough.

"What did you say? NO KIMBER FOR YOU!!!!!!!!"


FWIW, Teddy Jacobsen uses the same business model for his gunsmithing and he's still making a living.

If you read the Dilbert comic strip, you remember when Dogbert set up his customer service line and answered each call with:

"Hello, how may I disconnect you?"

There's a lot of that in this world.

[johnnie]

I have been thinking about buying a Kimber 45 - with all the talk and service problems I have decided to look elsewhere - not a glock - maybe a springfield.
Surely by now the management would understand the problem and look into the service problem. A bad employee can ruin a business faster than most anything.
Enjoy reading about others problems and sucesses - keep up the good work

[pinetree64]

When I bought my Kimber I ran in several problems. Two trips to Kimber and they were resolved. The more I shoot it, the better it gets. Though I really like this gun now, I'd be hard pressed to recommend Kimber. I recently bought a $399 Springfield Milspec WWII edition and have had no problems with it at all.

tjg

[denfoote]

This little Saree is precisely the reason why I bought the Springfield!!
Oh, and about $300 less for a better gun and no headaches... and no "Dennis" either!! :neener:

[Bravo11]

Before going into the mechanics of the pistol I would suggest a couple of things. First, I don't know how much you've shot a 1911 but I heard that 'limp wristing' can give FTF FTE problems and I've seen people handle my 45 and the thing having failing problems then I shoot it and it performs fine. Also, my 1911 loves lube. I apply a light coat of MILTEC-1 grease to the slide and oil the internals real well with CLP.
Might be something to try before gutting it.

[larryw]

bountyhunter, I've had many dealings with Teddy through five guns and found him to be extremely competent, polite and honest. His wife is also great to work with (status, etc.). There's a big difference between being a jerk and having strong opinions.

Teddy's the one who fixed my Springfield TRP after a couple futile trips back to SA to get it to feed ball ammo. SA's just like Kimber in that regard, they're just fine the first time out, but woe to the lowly customer who has the audacity to question the quality of the work "performed". Customer hostility factor increases in direct proportion to the number of repeat visits required to fix the gun: intent isn't to resolve the problem, just get the customer to leave them alone. Teddy quickly got the TRP 100%, but by then I was so disgusted with it that it just sat in the safe. Finally sold it and used the funds to help buy a Valtro. :D

Student, based on my experience under similar circumstances, you may be better off spending a little money to have a reputable smith fix the gun before you start really hating that chunk or steel (or aluminum). Good luck!

[Safety First]

This thread is one of the reasons I appreciate this forum. All this time I have been thinking Kimber had the highest quality 1911. I have never owned one but have been thinking that down the road (considerably down the road) I would buy a .45 1911 for the "House-gun". My next purchase is a Bersa Thunder and then probably a pocket-rocket P3at, so it will be a little time before the 1911 purchase is done. But it seems that the vast majority seem to like Springfield for its value and reliability so when the time comes I will be looking at Springfield to scratch that itch.:D

[JohnBT]

I don't think a few responses on a thread constitute a "vast majority." After all, Kimber sells waaaaay more guns than Springfield according to the government reports. OTOH, I don't see anyone claiming either maker is the best.

My '99 Gold Match is up to approx. 15k rounds with no problems. Well, I did lose a nut on the adjustable sight and they sent me a new one. A new sight, not just the nut.

Get what you like.

John

[Majic]

Just for the record not all Kimbers fall in that class. I have a pre-II Custom Royal and a SLE that hasn't had any real problems. The SLE has yet to hiccup from the day it came out the box. Jacketed and cast bullets have been down the barrel with no malfunctions.

[wardog]

I have 1 Kimber and 1 Springfield. The Kimber has been perfect, although I don't have as many rounds through it as my Springfield. The Springfield has been almost perfect.

I did buy another Springfield that I couldn't get to work at all. It was a V-10 Ultra Compact. It would fail to go fully into battery. Several trips to a gunsmith still did not fix it. Sold it to someone who thought he could fix it.

[swingset]

I have a Kimber Target .22 that is in Yonkers for the 2nd time since new (When it didn't run at all from the get-go). Kimber took it back, kept it for 3 days and sent it back to me "fixed"....and it was still as non-functional as when I sent it to them.

Nothing like spending Kimber money and getting Jennings quality. Shall not buy another Kimber, ever.

There are good Kimbers, but I have learned not to ignore bad product and service, for they often repeat themselves.

[Rob96]

Why am I not surprised by your experience:confused: The ONLY reason Kimber sells so many units is that they have the best advertising campaign going. You get all of these people that soak up everything the gun rags preach and advertise and they become hypnotised. From what I hear Kimber was the 1911 when they first came on the scene, but have since degraded in quality. I know, my brother experienced it twice. Once with a Series I Pro Carry and another with an almost $1000 Pro CDP II. Both were utter crap. Do yourself a huge favor and save yourself the grief and aggravation and trade it in on a Colt.:D

[denfoote]

I don't think a few responses on a thread constitute a "vast majority." After all, Kimber sells waaaaay more guns than Springfield according to the government reports. OTOH, I don't see anyone claiming either maker is the best.

My '99 Gold Match is up to approx. 15k rounds with no problems. Well, I did lose a nut on the adjustable sight and they sent me a new one. A new sight, not just the nut.



I'm a novice at the 1911 game.
Recently, I had cause to examine the claims of both Kimber and Springfirld.
I was in the market for a "high end" production 1911 pistol.
I evaluated the claims of both manufacturers, talked to my family gunsmith, searched the posts on both the leading companies, and chose Springfield.
One of the overriding factors, not including the negative reports of competing customer service, was the percentage of so-called "MIM" parts that were used in the manufacture of the guns. I happen to be an electronic technician by degree and a mechanical engineer by interest. The MIM process, in my opinion, produces inferior parts. Both structurally
and by quality assurance. Again, I chose the Springfield!!!!

[Berg01]

My NIB non-working Kimber went back a few times until I decided to take it to a local smith, ultimately cheaper and more reliable than keep sending it to NY. Won't buy another Kimber.

Absolutely dead-nuts on advice here! Here in my neck of the woods (Bucks County, PA), the local gunsmith is Evolution Gunworks in Doylestown, PA. This is the place for any work to be done to a 1911!. If I had a grand tied up in a Kimber, I'd want it fixed right, not fast; it seems like Kimber just churns guns in and out of their Custom Shop. You will have to wait upwards of three months for service at EGW; they have had a gun of mine for that timeframe. But it is worth the wait, as the gun will flat out work when they are done with it! A guy I shoot with had a Springer Loaded that wouldn't feed right; after a round trip to Springfield to no avail, he sent it to EGW, and after they did their "reliability tune", the gun ran like a swiss watch! G. Smith & Co. are excellent people to do business with, and they are fully deserving of the accolaides their customers give them.

[Werewolf]

I had the same problem with my first Kimber. On the advice of someone more knowlegable than myself, I removed the extractor and gently (but firmly) flexed it a couple of times. After that, it ran through the next 500 rounds without a hitch and very rarely misfed after that day.

For the longest time I wanted a Kimber too - but my mind has changed.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here - I really want to know - what is it with you Kimber guys and your loyalty to a company that seems to have a real problem with quality (and from this thread it seems they have a customer service problem too)?

You guys with Kimbers just seem to accept that your weapon is gonna fail. My youngest daughter's boyfriend bought a Kimber. It failed right out of the box. Every 5th or so round no eject and stovepipe. I love the quote above "and very rarely misfed". VERY RARELY MISFED! AND Why should one have to pay a gunsmith to make something work that should work right out of the box. And replacing a spring after 800 rounds????? Puhleeze. And that's just the problems related about Kimber's in this thread.

Guys I've got 3 pistols and I'm here to tell ya after thousands of rounds thru them I've not experienced one malfunction - not one. Maybe I've been lucky but I don't think so.

Maybe my expectations are too high (like I expect something I pay 7 or 8 hundred bucks for to work fine and last a long time). Threads like this one that delineate numerous quality problems with Kimbers plus my daughter's boyfriends experience have convinced me that Kimber just isn't the way to go when I finally get around to buying a 1911 style 45.

This thing with Kimber is not unlike Harley Davidson. Harley's have a mystique that is unique. Years ago their quality sucked rocks too - it took the US government and some special dispensations to keep 'em in business until they got their act together. Now the Harley mystique is well deserved. I don't think Kimber's mystique is.

I suppose the old saying that a satisfied customer tells 1 person but a dissatisfied one tells 10 is probably true. Someone loyal to Kimber may wanna remind them of that because my guess is that that is costing them business. Your name will only go so far and once a rep is trashed it's hard to get back.

[Kruzr]

I'm not trying to be antagonistic here - I really want to know - what is it with you Kimber guys and your loyalty to a company that seems to have a real problem with quality (and from this thread it seems they have a customer service problem too)?

Maybe its the fact that the posts you read on the internet about Kimber problems and problems with Dennis only represent a very small percentage of Kimber owners. I have two Kimbers and neither has had any function problems. My adjustable sight broke on my Stainless Target when it was new but I spoke with Dennis and it was replaced overnight. That was 20K rounds ago. My other Kimber has had 6K trouble free rounds through it. I had a Springfield and had nothing but problems with the gun AND their vaunted customer service. While I've read lots about Dennis being rude to people, I've never heard he lies to people like Springfield customer service reps do. He also answers e-mail and returns calls, not like SA or even Les Baer. Of the 20 or so Kimbers I'm familiar with in my shooting circle, none have ever had a problem. I only wish I could say that about my Baers.

[Stevie-Ray]

I'm hearing an awful lot of "forget Kimber after all of this, I'm buying Springfield."

That's an incredible mistake if you're expecting a more reliable pistol. In my group, I'm the only one that has spent the money for a Kimber. No problems and it's the perfect carry gun. Three of my friends at work have purchased Springfields. 1 full size, 1 Micro, 1 V-10, and ALL are experiencing problems. My buddy with the V-10 is so PO'd I doubt if Springfield sells to anybody in the area after he's done.

Don't expect any better from Colt, either. Though I've had no recent experience with their products, I had several failures with my Mark IV and it couldnt hit the side of a mountain in it's stock configuration. After I sunk a lot of money into it with aftermarket parts, it's the finest weapon I have. But, should I have had to spend all that money?

My Colt Delta Elite, OTOH, has been flawless from day one.

You just don't know what you're going to get. I don't write off any reputable company because of a tiny percentage of problems. A company like AMT, though............sorry, but I haven't heard of ANY flawless AMTs.

[lycanthrope]

I had a bunch of problems with two series II plungers breaking in my Eclipse making my gun inoperable. The first time Dennis fixed it and had it back to me within a week. The second time the back sight came off and the series II nonsense went in the trash. I also had a rear sight shear and the grip safety was not working correctly from the factory (it would let the hammer fall without being activated).

The gun would also choke on SWC ammunition.

Finally, I smoothed out the radius on the extractor (whcih I feel should be done on every 1911) and the gun will feed empty casings all day long. As long as your casings are falling 5 feet from the gun the tension from the extractor is good. In my experience, it's the number 2 thing to check on a malfunctioning 1911 (with mags being first).

Don't believe all that recoil spring crap. Worn springs can pound a gun up but don't usually cause malfunctions until they don't have enough power to chamber the next round. I currently run an 11lb spring in my 5" and have been flawless for over 5000 rounds. If I didn't run a shock buff, I'd run a 16lb. For a 4" gun I'd go for 18lb MAX.

[care-less]

The answer to your problem is really quite simple; well actually there are two answers. Glock and USPc45, take your pick. In all seriousness though, say what you will, nobody makes a 1911 like COLT.

[Ankeny]

As an IDPA and USPSA junkie deluxe, I get to see a boat load of .45 autos. In my experience just about every maker has a few lemons slip through. I had a Kimber Gold Match back before Dennis. The pistol ent back twice for reliability problems. They were so embarrassed about having to send it in twice that they checkered the front strap at 30 lpi as an apology. I shot that pistol well, but other problems arose so I sold it and swore I would never buy another Kimber.

Well, I see a lot of Kimbers at matches that work just fine and a couple of world class gunsmiths told me they are still the best buy for the dollar so I bought a Series II Pro Carry. I took the funky Sartz system off and threw it in the trash can, then I filed the arm down on the grip safety so the grip safety is activated with just the slightest movement. This pistol shoots like a charm and the guys who have shot it are as impressed as I am

FWIW, I have seen members of our local clubs have problems with several brands and get so mad they sold them for a fraction of what they paid and swore never to go back. Those guns include Para, Colt, Springfield, Kimber, STI Trojan, Wilson Combat, and Glock.

[chrisinmo]

My personal philosophy is if a pot metal part on the gun fails to function dont send it back to have it relpaced with another poorly made pot metal part.

I recently bought a Springfield Mil Spec Ultra Compact and one of the first things I did after shooting to check reliability was have all the trigger components and safties replaced with high quality aftermarket parts. When I was at the smith another customer who I later found out was a cop said "it is a shame to have to put all that additional money into a new gun". He said somethingabout Kimber. I told him I would be doing the same thing with a kimber but that their factory custom features would restrict my choices of what I wanted done and cost me more up front for parts that would end up in the trash bin in short order anyway. I told him the choice I made was deliberate and the choice to have the parts replacedwas in teh plans when the gun was purchased.

It is frustrating to get a gun that does not work right like it should and this being an external extractor is a little different but if the pot metal part on a gun gives you problems chances are the new pot metal piece the factory replaces it with will eventually have problems as well.

[Waitone]

I am a Kimber customer. I own a Target Classic SS. The ONLY performance issue I had was after flawless performance it developed the annoying habit of 2 hammer drops on one trigger pull. One of my minds said, "Interesting." The other mind said, "Get is fixed goober." Called Kimber and it was back in my hands repaired in 3 days, elapse time. I have no prob with Kimber service based on my experience.

I am also a marketing professional. I do not work in the gun industry <sigh> but I do know the gig of product and corporate positioning (among other issues). If I was Kimber's VP of marketing I'd be livid at reading this thread. Not because of the negative comments but because so many of the negative comments are related to the performance on one individual in contact with the bill paying customer. A consistently surly non-customer friendly personality can render valueless hundreds of thousands of dollars of promotional expenditures. Yes, kimber does have a fairly sophisticated position campaign, but it is based on a lot of hard work in the past. Any campaign based on BS is immediately detectable. What takes time to destroy a company's reputation is a period of outstanding performance followed by a positioning campaign pointing to that outstanding performance then torpedo'd by gun nazi.

Does anyone know if Kimbers marketing gurus lurk THR?

If not, has anyone with a beef emailed Kimber's marketing gurus?

[1911Tuner]

Remove the slide...Remove the barrel from the slide. Slip a round
under the extractor hook and check to see if the hook is bottoming out in the extractor groove of the case. If it is, it will bind the case up between the hook and the nose of the ejector and cause the jam that you may
be having. If the hook is diggin in to the groove, it will also cause a
failure to go to battery. Double whammy.

If the empty case is angled sideways with the mouth out of the port, but the rim is still nailed to the breechface, I betcha that's your bug. Seen
that happen a few times when a guy "tuned" his extractor with a file,
and cut the wall deeper, making the hook waaay too long.

If that's what's happening, the cure is to stone the hook to shorten it,
but since I don't know if Kimber uses fully hardened external extractors
or case-hardened pot met..er, uh...cold-rolled steel, it may be futile.
Case hardening goes about .010-.012 deep at best. Cut through it
to soft steel, it'll wear fast.

On the recoil spring...if the pistol is short-stroking, the case isn't
smacking the ejector hard enough to kick it clear of the port, and will
cause this too. If all is well with the ramp. throat, and the tension
on the extractor, it should feed with a lighter spring anyway.

Hope this nails it...Got sneakin' suspicion it's somethin' simple. Usually
is with a 1911 pistol.

Tuner

[jetman]

I too had a couple of wonderful heart to heart conversations with Dennis from Kimber with both an Ultra Carry Compact and Gold Match I had some troubles with.

After that lovely experience, I've sold them both for Wilson Combats

they have great customer service

[Rob96]

New to the List gentleman, but long time 1911 shooter. Just got back from a week at GUNSITE. Private class, all Pistol. My new Kimber Pro Carry II was not up to the task. The pistol had 300 rds through it before goining to GUNSITE, in these 300 rds it would never go into full battery about every 4-5 rd. When I called Kimber, I got to talk to Anne. Her exact response to my problem was " this pistol design has been around since 1902, its normal to have 5-6 malfunctions every 100rds. If you are looking for reliability buy a Glock" This about took my breath away. I could not believe that a Kimber employee much less anyone that knows anything about the 1911 would say such a thing. I tried to get Dennis at the Proshop but I could never get past Anne. So now here I am at GUNSITE on day one....& by the 5th round same story, wont go into battery. SO long story short..my other 3 buddies are firing Kimbers too & guess what same thing. Battery & ejection issues seemed to be the disease. Yes we rotated different types of Mags...etc. Due to all of us having the same type issues Colonel Young arranged a conference call with Kimber, but Kimber was a "no show" I have talked with my buddies out at MCSOCOM Det 1 & they have had some problems with their Kimbers too... 30 out of 100 to be exact. What I woud like from this list is some feedback on Kimbers customer support. Frankly it sucks. To have an $800 pistol that is totally unreliable on a range much less a gunfight is not acceptable. If anyone has some GOOD imput on this I would greatly appreciate it.

Another satisfied Kimber customer over at the Kimber section of the 1911 forum.

[1911Tuner]

called Kimber, I got to talk to Anne. Her exact response to my problem was " this pistol design has been around since 1902, its normal to have 5-6 malfunctions every 100rds.

*coffcoffbullsh*itcoff*

We need to have a word with Anne...or whoever hired her.:rolleyes:

[Monkeyleg]

I have three Kimbers. The first one is a stainless Gold Match circa 1998. I had problems with it feeding my reloads, until I discovered I didn't have enough crimp on them. After that, no problems. I had the occasional failure to lock back on an empty mag, until I started playing with the follower on the magazine. It now has about 14K rounds through it, and I can't remember the last time it malfunctioned.

Second one is a Pro Carry, circa 2000. I don't know how many rounds I have through it, but the notch on the slide stop got chewed up a bit. Tried a Wilson slide stop, but it didn't work properly, so I got another from Kimber and everything has been fine since. I've since switched to Wilson mags, which really helps.

The third one is an Eclipse Target that I got two weeks ago and haven't had the time to shoot it. :( This will be my first series II pistol, so it will be interesting to see what happens.

I agree that these problems shouldn't happen but, compared to my Harley, these are very very minor problems.

[shooter.45]

I have a Kimber TLE II and bought in NIB the finish on the slide had a brown tint to it. The frame was OK but did not match the slide I figured paying 700.00 for a gun should look good. I sent it back to Kimber and got it back in 2 days could not belive it. So it looked good but after I shot it and the sights were no longer on target. And when I wiped the outside of the gun the finish was coming off the slide guess they must of spray painted it Boy was I mad. And yes when I called Kimber Dennis had a attitude also. So no more kimbers for me. I just bought a Springfield WWII and it shot just as good if not better than my kimber and was 350.00 less. :cuss:

[Tomac]

While one can expect the occasional lemon from any mfgr one would hope that the pricier offerings from the "brand names" would have greater reliability out of the box commensurate with their price. My latest .45 is a Rock Island Armory Milspec ($299 dealer) and so far with over 500rds through it (everything from Wolf to Federal 200gr +P EFMJ) it's functioned flawlessly except for a single FTF when group testing from a benchrest (I may have limpwristed that shot). The only real complaint I've heard from a RIA owner to date concerned a slightly undersized chamber which was replaced under warranty. This design has been around for nearly a century, plenty of time to learn what produces a reliable firearm and what produces an expensive paperweight. If an inexpensive RIA .45 can "get it right" by sticking to JMB's original design then why the recurring problems with some of the pricier brand names?
Tomac

[Trigger]

Sorry to hear about your issues with Kimber. If Kimber doesn't fix your problem to your satisfaction then I would have a good gunsmith work it over properly. Yes, it might cost a little more but at least it will be reliable and you won't have to worrry about it. I would doubt that Kimber would just replace the gun but they should be able to fix it so that it works.

I would avoid anything Kimber nowadays especially with their Series 2 junk and even more so their sub 5" guns. Yea, yea, I know that some just love theirs and it's been 100% reliable but in general Kimber started out a dream gun and has gone down the drain along with their customer "care."

Stick with a Colt or a Springfield these days.

[ruger357]

I think good customer service is a big plus in buying a firearm. The way kimber's customer service is heading I beleave I have seen my last kimber.

[ksnecktieman]

I do not understand. If you buy a gun and it does not work why would you pay someone to work on it? There has to be main offfice oversight on service in a company the size of Kimber. If their warrantee shop fills up with inoperable guns someone will pay attention and fix it. If you take it to someone else and have it fixed they will continue to sell junk. I think someone needs to climb the corporate ladder to someone in a responsible position.

I have this ring here I will sell,,, just wear it on your shooting hand and when you shoot you will automatically hit the target every time, no need to aim or anything,,, anyone interested? If you have warrantee needs on it you will have to go to Helen Waite. :)

[StudentoftheGun]

I sent the Kimber back. Or at least I think so, lol! I told my local dealer from which I bought the gun to take care of it and deal with Kimber themselves. I figured that as a paying customer I didnt deserve to be talked to that way and I would rather not risk it again. My dealer was very nice and agreed to go to bat for me. So as far as I know it has been sent off.

With any luck it will come back functioning. I will take the advice of some of the folks on here and try a different spring. If that fails and the gun still gives me problems I will just send it back to Kimber again. The next 1911 I buy will be a fullsize. I will most likely send it off to the most famous gunsmith I can find. Two years (and a wad of cash) later, I should have myself a good gun.

Thanks for all the feedback and advice!

Student

[1911Tuner]

You ask?

I do not understand. If you buy a gun and it does not work why would you pay someone to work on it?

Several reasons, not the least of which is that sometimes the warranty repair station for (name your brand) doesn't get it fixed on the first attempt. They'll figure the most likely cause and address that issue, test-fire a few rounds, and ship it back. Sometimes the turnaround on that no-fix "fix" is several weeks. The local smith, if he is good, is more likely to return the pistol ready to roll. When I was workin' the trade, there were several instances of correcting issues on guns that had been back and forth
for warranty repairs 2 or 3 times with no results. 7 times out of ten, the fix was something simple.

Some shooters just don't trust the carriers with their prized sidearm. They get "lost" sometimes, and are never found. Have to wonder if it's all acidental. Staunch antis who discover a gun in a package may consider the
package a target of opportunity...Strike a blow for the ol' cause...

SOmetimes a man has a real, pressing NEED for hsi pistol, and can't
afford to buy one to carry while the problem child is in transit for X
number of days/weeks. When I knew that was the case, THAT pistol
got priority.

Cheers!
Tuner

[StudentoftheGun]

Well Tuner I am not surprised that you gave special attention to those cases where the fella may not have had a backup defense pistol. You care whether or not the guy has a pressing need. I would be willing to wager that most manufacturer repair shops couldnt care less.

I know I am going to get flamed for this (even though I am almost sure it has been said). I think it would be a good idea for companies like Colt and Kimber to move operations to the South (or out West maybe).

I am not saying that the folks they have now arent extremely skilled, but think about it this way: Why would a gun manufacturer stay in a state that is anti-gun? New York is a prime example. I would imagine they would be a lot more welcome in say, Alabama or South Carolina. Those states would appreciate the business.

I am no expert when it comes to running a business. I am not an expert when it comes to customer service either. But, if I were an executive of one of these companies I would move South or West. I would go to a state that wanted us there; who wasnt ashamed of us. I would also go to a state that I was sure wasnt going to ban handguns in the foreseeable future. But most of all, I would go to a state where I could hire an extra gunsmith or two because they are willing to work for less (because of a lower standard of living) and thereby reduce the work load on the folks I already have. Maybe then once the company is properly staffed (and lower stressed) they will have time to give their customers better service. Maybe they would even find the time to care.

Just my two cents.

Student

[johnnie]

I agree - let those states start losing more jobs than they have already - and see how fast the anti-gun people get re elected. I have a 500 acre ranch in SE Okla that would make a large manufactorer proud to be on. There are even people down here that have the confederate flags on there trucks.

[1911Tuner]

He said:
I know I am going to get flamed for this (even though I am almost sure it has been said). I think it would be a good idea for companies like Colt and Kimber to move operations to the South (or out West maybe).

You just nailed something that has been the scourge of the latter part of the twentieth century, and it all boils down to money...or rather the
cost of production. There's also a little New Age stirred into the soup
at work too. There just isn't the same sense of pride in one's work as
was present in times past.

Building a good pistol requires a certain amount of "smithing"..even
on an assembly line. Training people to do that for a fair wage takes
not only time and money...it takes dedication of the trainee and the
willingness to work for the wage. Tough to arrange in an age where it
takes two incomes to support a family with 2.3 kids. Easy for a good
man to be lured to another job that pays a dollar more an hour.

It takes time to put one together properly. that equates to lower outout.
Money again. Last, but not least...A pistol that is even semi-hand fitted is going to be expensive. Witness the higher-end production guns from folks
like Baer and Wilson...The average workin' stiff either can't afford one like that, or he can't justify it when the kids are fast headed to college age.

It's a mess, and there just doesn't seem to be any set answer...except
to learn to tune the pistol yourself. Most problems are simple, and not
beyond the abilities of the average tinkerer. It takes a working knowledge
of the gun, common sense...and patience.

Good points Student.
Tuner

[Kestrel]

Tuner,

As usual, you offer great advice and help. I appreciate your willingness to take the time to help the folks on these forums. Wish you were my neighbor.

Steve

[Kestrel]

Guys that go from Kimber to Springfield... Unfortunately, the Springfields are full of MIM parts, too. My favorite of the stock, production pistols are Colts. Period. I've had a few assembly problems with Colts, too, but I feel they are better made, using better quality parts.

I view the Kimbers and Springfields only as bases for a custom gun. Slide and frame kits, if you will. To be completely gutted and built up by a reputable smith. That's why I don't buy them. (Well, the Springfield Professional Model from the Custom Shop is a WHOLE 'nother animal. It's ready for the street as-is.) I do have two series one Kimbers from several years ago that I intend to have completely rebuilt.

To me, the pistols that are ready to go are, Wilson Combat CQBs, Springfield Professionals, Ed Browns and Colts. (Of course the Colts are a production gun and much cheaper, but they work and work and work.)

Other than these, it would have to be built by a reliable smith. Maybe it's because I view 1911s differently than other pistols. to me 1911s are an EXPENSIVE GUN. For one to work right, it does cost some money, unless it's a Colt. With the other production guns, it's a roll of the dice...

I know that finances dictate what someone is able to buy and a $2000 1911 is not always feasible. It just seems that a lot of times, a $700 1911 is not feasible, either (if you want it to run). (Unless it's a Colt.)

If I could only buy a Kimber or production Springfield, I'd buy a Colt or Glock or Sig or BHP or HK... At least they always work at the $700 and under price point.

Don't barbecue me - these are MY opinions and experiences. Yours may differ.

Steve

[Wildalaska]

Colt colt colt colt colt
Colt colt colt colt colt
Colt colt colt colt colt
Colt colt colt colt colt

WildcoltAlaska

[denfoote]

Gee Wild,
Are you really into Colts or does somebody need to slap you across the back to dislodge whatever is stuck in your throat??!!! :D

[shooter.45]

SteveW13


Thats not true about only Colts being ready to go. Because my Springfield WWII has never jammed and shoots just as good if not better than the Kimber TLE I use to have. :D

[ruger357]

My colt 1991a1 had a mim extractor. My Springfield 1911a1 GI series shot fantastic out of the box, plus fit and finish is outstanding with a titanium firing pin. By the way the 1991a1 was so loose it actually rattled when you shook the gun.

[KMKeller]

In industry these days, companies don't staff up to meet new contract awards, they use existing staff to fulfill and then staff up utilizing the profits from the "done deals". Kimber has recently won some substantial contracts to supply arms to some LEO agencies, ergo their staff has been focused predominantly on providing extra TLC for those pistols shipped to the contract. This creates a cycle in which the end consumer, for the duration of contract fulfillment, is getting short shrift in both product quality and service responsiveness. Now that Kimber has grown, then can financially weather these "bumps in the road" with little impact to their bottom line. Once their growth model levels out, they will pay more attention to the civvie market, but for now are relying on their customer service department to effectively stall until they can afford to staff up once the contracts are paid and wait for the next contract.

It's an ugly cycle, but one very prevalent in modern industry. Oh and one clarification to my earlier statement regarding the staffing up. There are, in any industry, skilled and unskilled labor. It's easy to staff up unskilled labor (shipping clerks, order fulfillment, etc.) and difficult, especially in the firearms industry, to staff up skilled labor (gunsmiths). In the latter, most are probably going to have to be trained or apprenticed to existing staff, increasing the burden on them, and diminishing their time available to do a proper job on mass market product. Once modest training is done, these new smiths are probably those who are providing fulfillment of mass market hardware while the skilled gunsmiths are focusing most of their efforts on contract hardware.

In essence, the QA problems you're seeing are indicative of a growing company in a highly competitive market. It's hugely unfair to the end consumer of the mass market product, but a viable business model for protecting profit margins. Just ask Microsoft.

[George Hill]

http://home.no.net/film2001/Filmer/B/Braveheart.jpg
"SPRRIIIIIINNNNGFIEEEELLLD!!!!"

[Rob96]

By the way the 1991a1 was so loose it actually rattled when you shook the gun.

On my NRM 1991A1 you can hear a little bit of rattle from the slight looseness in the slide to frame fit. But remember the Colt is made to Ordnance spec, the way it was designed. Despite the loose fit my Colt is accurate. Accuracy is the result of good barrel to slide fit, and it is 100% reliable. None of this " Shoot 500 rounds thru it first" crap. I will take accurate and reliable over tight and failure to this and that any day.

[Kestrel]

ruger357,

Colt did try MIM extractors for a while, but discovered the problems associated with them and went back to barstock. I had two of the first reissue 70 series Colts that had MIM extractors and had Colt replace them. My NRM 80s and the last 70 series reissue had the barstock extractors.

Steve.

[Parker Dean]

Kimber has recently won some substantial contracts to supply arms to some LEO agencies, ergo their staff has been focused predominantly on providing extra TLC for those pistols shipped to the contract.


Pulled a page from the S&W operations manual did they?

I suppose later they'll tell us that they profit mostly from LEO contracts and really don't need civilian sales...




Once their growth model levels out, they will pay more attention to the civvie market,...


Pardon me if I take this with a huge grain of salt and wait to see if this actually happens.

[ruger357]

Rob96,
My 1991 was so loose the dealer almost would not take it for a trade-in. I'm not knocking Colt at all. I am thinking about looking at the new rollmarks after the holidays. I am just saying the one I did buy didn't make me too much of a fan,while the Springfield did.

[Yo]

I had my run-ins with Dennis--on a Kimber Gold match that was a complete POS. I could fill the page with all the things that were wrong with it. It made three trips to the factory (all at my expense) before they finally gave up on it and gave me a replacement. I tried the trigger and it needed a trigger job badly, so I promptly sold that turkey.

I will never give Kimber another penny. Look at the new Sig 1911. Or, for much less the SW1911. I have a SW1911 and it has been superb. Paid $670 and it regularly outshoots $1500 customs. Feeds everything I've put into it, and the trigger breaks at 3.75lbs with no creep whatsoever. 5 shots in under 1" outside edge to outside edge at 12m.

[Sunspot]

Wow, what a thread. I also have a bad taste in my mouth with Kimber. I own a polymer hi-cap. The first 500 rounds, it was perfect. I even tried limp wristing it to the point of almost dropping it and it went bang every time. Then I started to get nose up jams. I don’t know the technical term for that malf is but the round would strip from the magazine and jam with the tip of the round resting at the top of the barrel. It’s like the round is tipping up too much while feeding. I have four magazines and it jammed with all four of them. Two of the mags are the 14 round steel and the other two are 10 round steel. While I am not a gunsmith, I do know how to strip and clean my weapons and do so after each time at the range.
I sent it to Kimber and I got the pistol back in one week. Very fast turn around. The ticket stated that the pistol was incorrectly assembled and that they tuned the extractor.
I test fired the pistol and, you guessed it, it was worse then before.
At this year SHOT show, I went to the Kimber booth and spoke (read ranted) to Winslow Potter, customer service, custom shop. He advised me to send it back. I have not done so yet because I steam every time I look at it.
This was my first pistol in .45 and my first 1911. I like the .45 but after reading this and other threads about 1911’s I think this will be my first and last 1911.
Does anyone know if Springfield will make the XD in .45? I like the triggers on the Glocks but all the models I’ve tried don’t fit my hand and I tried a bunch at the SHOT show.
Thanks to all for this opportunity to rant. I feel better.
:cuss:

[1911Tuner]

Whoa! That malfunction is what's known as Rideover Feed, or Bolt Over
Base. It's caused by the slide outrunning the magazine spring. most
of the time, it happens on the last round, and sometimes even earlier.

Try stepping down one notch on the recoil spring. Kimber used to be in the habit of overspringing their pistols. A friend of mine was having the same
thing in an early Custom Classic. It took a gorilla to hand-cycle the slide.
We checked the spring, and it tested at 21.5 pounds at full compression.
A 16-pound Wolff spring straight out of the package set things straight.

I THINK...Wolff makes an extra-power spring for those maazines. If they
do, git one! A 16-pound recoil spring and a good magazine spring will
likely make that Kimber sing a happy tune.

Luck to ya!

Tuner

[Correia]

Or Sunspot if you decide to get rid of it let me know and I'll make you an offer on those magazines.

[Daniel T]

Why is it that when someone has a problem with a certain 1911 manufacturer, they blame the platform? I just don't get it.

[1911Tuner]

Demise said:

Why is it that when someone has a problem with a certain 1911 manufacturer, they blame the platform? I just don't get it.

Wish I had said that.

[Sunspot]

Why is it that when someone has a problem with a certain 1911 manufacturer, they blame the platform? I just don't get itDemise, on reflection of your statement, you are correct. There are a lot of 1911's out there in the world. Something has to be good about them. I will try and get my Kimber running right.

Or Sunspot if you decide to get rid of it let me know and I'll make you an offer on those magazinesCorreia, it would be difficult to price the mags. I could only find poly 10 rounders, not steel like mine. I cannot find any 14 round mags.

That malfunction is what's known as Rideover Feed, or Bolt Over
Base. It's caused by the slide outrunning the magazine spring. most
of the time, it happens on the last round, and sometimes even earlier. Thank you very much for that information Tuner. Wolff has 16 and 14 lb spings for the Kimber but no mag springs. I checked my new Dawson catalog and they also do not have Kimber mag springs. Do you think a Para spring could be used?